VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (Public & School Holiday) Leisure Travel

[random111]

Hi All

Is it just me or have you noticed VA's prices are not competitive for leisure travel around school and public holidays?

E.g. need to go to BNE around VIC queens B'day w/e, did MEL to BNE on 8/6/12 returning 11/6/12

VA comes back w $455 flying out fri evening and coming back monday afternoon, thats without a meal and baggage!

The competition comes in at $434 for same times w a meal and baggage.

I dont need baggage and would get it for free anyway but seems odd to me that they are more expensive but offering less!

The foxtel, if it is even a plane that has it, would have to be damn good!!

Anyone else run into a similar situation recently?

 

[Saab34]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

If your really desperate you could do Tiger for around $220. Or Price beat it on J* for around $200.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

Anyone else run into a similar situation recently?

All the time of late.

I've done plenty of whining about it, but I firmly believe that's the direction DJ are quite deliberately headed. It does make a mockery of their pledge to remain competitive on "leisure travel" fares. To me, that's just a convenient excuse to charge as much or more than QF but still charge for food on-board. "Oh but we're only doing that to remain competitive for leisure travellers"............yes of course I only came down in the last shower! All I can suggest is get over it and look to the competition. If all leisure/budget business travellers took their business away from DJ, especially while they're struggling to make the grade in the J world (or perhaps more fairly, the perception is they're struggling to make the grade in the J world), then I think we'd fairly rapidly see a business model change advantageous to us a bit more.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

I found a one-way BNE-SYD fare on VA for about $420 (only Y/B-class flexi fares were available) when searching about 5 hours before departure (with the same price showing for the few flights that followed). At roughly the same departure time, QF were showing roughly $220 for their flights... their price included catering and checked baggage, VA's didn't... guess who got the booking? haha

As a VA Gold, I used their lounge in BNE before the QF flight (this a few months ago - before I had QF lounge access), and QF blocked the seat next to me to give me some room to sleep (was about a 70% load factor)... I still don't understand why VA charge full-service prices yet have only LCC inclusions for non-status guests!

 

[Fruitcake]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

In practice you may find the Y cabin on that $420 DJ flight was fully sold (or slightly more than sold!), and if anyone happened to stump up $420 for that fare then DJ would do some op-ups. Allows them to extract some above-average dollars for a Y seat without devaluing the J cabin by publicly offering it at a discount.

Mind you, that theory does get stretched a bit thin when the DJ fare is as outrageous as your example.

 

[Mogul]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

Outbound

Fri 8 Jun$172.00


Sat 9 Jun$105.00


Sun 10 Jun$105.00



Mon 11 Jun$105.00


Tue 12 Jun$105.00


Wed 13 Jun$105.00


Thu 14 Jun$105.00

Departs Arrives Flight	saver	flexi	business
06:55 AMBrisbane 09:25 AMMelbourne DJ 308 Flight Number DJ 308 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$105.00	$266.00	$799.00
08:55 AMBrisbane 11:25 AMMelbourne DJ 318 Flight Number DJ 318 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$207.00	$266.00	$799.00
10:55 AMBrisbane 13:25 PMMelbourne DJ 324 Flight Number DJ 324 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$207.00	$266.00	$799.00
11:55 AMBrisbane 14:25 PMMelbourne DJ 326 Flight Number DJ 326 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$207.00	$266.00	$799.00
12:55 PMBrisbane 15:25 PMMelbourne DJ 328 Flight Number DJ 328 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$236.01	$302.01	$799.00
14:55 PMBrisbane 17:25 PMMelbourne DJ 334 Flight Number DJ 334 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$306.00	$376.00	$799.00
15:55 PMBrisbane 18:25 PMMelbourne DJ 336 Flight Number DJ 336 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$306.00	$376.00	$799.00
16:55 PMBrisbane 19:25 PMMelbourne DJ 342 Flight Number DJ 342 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$306.00	$376.00	$799.00
17:55 PMBrisbane 20:25 PMMelbourne DJ 346 Flight Number DJ 346 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$306.00	$376.00	$799.00
18:55 PMBrisbane 21:25 PMMelbourne DJ 352 Flight Number DJ 352 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia	$306.00	$376.00	$799.00
20:55 PMBrisbane 23:25 PMMelbourne DJ 356 Flight Number DJ 356 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 30min Operated by Virgin Australia Inbound: Tue 5 Jun$105.00 Wed 6 Jun$105.00 Thu 7 Jun$105.00 Fri 8 Jun$172.00 Sat 9 Jun$105.00 Sun 10 Jun$105.00 Mon 11 Jun$105.00 Departs Arrives Flight saver flexi business ServiceTypeShortestTravelTimeLowestFareHighestFareEarliestDepartureLatestDepartureEarliestArrivalLatestArrivalNoSortSort Sort ByDirect flightsElapsed flying timePriceDeparture time 06:00 AMMelbourne 08:10 AMBrisbane DJ 303 Flight Number DJ 303 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $172.00 $266.00 $799.00 07:00 AMMelbourne 09:10 AMBrisbane DJ 309 Flight Number DJ 309 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $172.00 $266.00 $799.00 08:00 AMMelbourne 10:10 AMBrisbane DJ 313 Flight Number DJ 313 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $207.00 $266.00 $799.00 09:00 AMMelbourne 11:10 AMBrisbane DJ 319 Flight Number DJ 319 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $207.00 $266.00 $799.00 10:00 AMMelbourne 12:10 PMBrisbane DJ 321 Flight Number DJ 321 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-700 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $236.01 $302.01 No Fares 12:00 PMMelbourne 14:10 PMBrisbane DJ 327 Flight Number DJ 327 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $256.00 $302.01 $799.00 14:00 PMMelbourne 16:10 PMBrisbane DJ 331 Flight Number DJ 331 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $256.00 $302.01 $799.00 15:00 PMMelbourne 17:10 PMBrisbane DJ 333 Flight Number DJ 333 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $306.00 $376.00 $799.00 16:00 PMMelbourne 18:10 PMBrisbane DJ 337 Flight Number DJ 337 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $306.00 $376.00 $799.00 17:00 PMMelbourne 19:10 PMBrisbane DJ 341 Flight Number DJ 341 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $306.00 $376.00 $799.00 18:00 PMMelbourne 20:10 PMBrisbane DJ 347 Flight Number DJ 347 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $256.00 $302.01 $799.00 19:00 PMMelbourne 21:10 PMBrisbane DJ 351 Flight Number DJ 351 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $236.01 $302.01 $799.00 20:00 PMMelbourne 22:10 PMBrisbane DJ 353 Flight Number DJ 353 Aircraft Type Boeing 737-800 Flight Duration 2hr 10min Operated by Virgin Australia $256.00 $302.01 $799.00	$256.00	$302.01	$799.00

 

[ChrisFlyer]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

In practice you may find the Y cabin on that $420 DJ flight was fully sold (or slightly more than sold!), and if anyone happened to stump up $420 for that fare then DJ would do some op-ups. Allows them to extract some above-average dollars for a Y seat without devaluing the J cabin by publicly offering it at a discount.

Mind you, that theory does get stretched a bit thin when the DJ fare is as outrageous as your example.

True. When I was opped-up on a VA SYD-BNE flight, I was greated at my seat with the "as a valued Gold member, we have upgraded you to PE today. Please feel free to order anything from the menu, it is with our compliments" speech, and the person in the row behind me was greeted "as you purchased a flexi fare, we chose to upgrade you to PE as there isn't much room in economy today".

 

[medhead]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

Nope, not at all. Booked a few $125 and $99 ADL-SYD fares today for July (school hols) and August. $90 to $100 cheaper than QF at a minimum. BTW I find the comment about not including baggage in the OP to be a bit f a distraction. The OP has baggage so the price does in fact include bags for the OP

 

[lovestotravel]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

I was wondering why fares were so expensive in June and I forgot about school holidays!!! Thanks

I did notice today that fares I had been looking at all seemed to jump by about $50-$150 on MEL/SYD/OOL/BNE on VA..

But yes VA is not interested in the low end leisure travel fares, let Tiger and Jetstar fight that out. But let's see how high VA can push their charges before people get sick of the LCC feel that VA entails

Then you think that SYD airport charges the airline $15 per passenger...... plus all the other costs....

 

[random111]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

All the time of late.

I've done plenty of whining about it, but I firmly believe that's the direction DJ are quite deliberately headed. It does make a mockery of their pledge to remain competitive on "leisure travel" fares. To me, that's just a convenient excuse to charge as much or more than QF but still charge for food on-board. "Oh but we're only doing that to remain competitive for leisure travellers"............yes of course I only came down in the last shower! All I can suggest is get over it and look to the competition. If all leisure/budget business travellers took their business away from DJ, especially while they're struggling to make the grade in the J world (or perhaps more fairly, the perception is they're struggling to make the grade in the J world), then I think we'd fairly rapidly see a business model change advantageous to us a bit more.

I'm with ya there mate!!

I will be choosing the cheapest fares!! and to be honest, when travelling at dinner time like I will be, a hot meal goes is worth more to me than the SC's!

I can't begin to describe the resentment I have towards 'gourmet pastrami'!!!!!!!

Anyways back on topic, Virgin to me are a bit all over the place, being an LCC means that you offer low prices...at the moment they are LCC but rather than passing on the savings they make through their subpar product, they have jacked them up!!

I get the fact that travel around public and school holidays is more expensive, thats a whole different topic in itself, but to be the most expensive airline in Aust, come on!! That shows me that Virgin are not executing their strategy correctly and with all these rapid changes (and enhancements), the basics are being neglected!

Rant over!

 

[Fruitcake]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

I'm with ya there mate!!

I will be choosing the cheapest fares!! and to be honest, when travelling at dinner time like I will be, a hot meal goes is worth more to me than the SC's!

I can't begin to describe the resentment I have towards 'gourmet pastrami'!!!!!!!

Anyways back on topic, Virgin to me are a bit all over the place, being an LCC means that you offer low prices...at the moment they are LCC but rather than passing on the savings they make through their subpar product, they have jacked them up!!

I get the fact that travel around public and school holidays is more expensive, thats a whole different topic in itself, but to be the most expensive airline in Aust, come on!! That shows me that Virgin are not executing their strategy correctly and with all these rapid changes (and enhancements), the basics are being neglected!

Rant over!

Being an airline, as opposed to a low cost carrier, means that you price discriminate to the point where you manage to get each and every customer to pay as much as possible for each available seat. The whole point of the 'game change' is to increase the perceived value of DJ's offering so that people will pay more to fly them. If they're able to charge higher Y fares even with J not quite right, a small domestic lounge network and a mish-mash international alliance (ie plenty of places to earn/burn points but almost no genuine status recognition) then why shouldn't they?

If I owned a business, I certainly wouldn't be selling 10% under my competitors price just because I felt all humble about my product, even if was costing me 10% less to produce. Especially if I had 30% less stock available than that competitor, and people were prepared to pay the same price for it.

 

[greenfish]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

Also really depends on your routes. BNE->CBR and BNE->ADL VA are cheaper than QF 80% of the time.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

If I owned a business, I certainly wouldn't be selling 10% under my competitors price just because I felt all humble about my product, even if was costing me 10% less to produce. Especially if I had 30% less stock available than that competitor, and people were prepared to pay the same price for it.

Awful lot of "ifs" there.

 

[Fruitcake]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

If internet forums were constrained to debates grounded in real-world experience and first-hand accounts, they'd be rather boring places! But that does not mean assertions should be left unchallenged.


Slightly on topic - yesterday's AFR reported that average DJ fares were up 14% in March, load factors were down 4%, and capacity is up by 14.4%. So the balance still seems to be moving in the right direction.

(Virgin ups the ante to lift profits, or page 2 of the print edition, apologies to non-subscribers).

 

[Deleted member 29185]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

If internet forums were constrained to debates grounded in real-world experience and first-hand accounts, they'd be rather boring places!

You misunderstand me. I was actually commenting on the DJ "ifs" rather than yours. Humble apologies offered profusely.

As for the DJ "ifs", as someone who has owned and operated his own business continuously for more than a quarter of a century, I can say too many "ifs" spoil the broth! Sure, take gambles...that's how you win, but to gamble with so many "ifs" has the very real potential to hurt a business deeply. Alienating your existing clients, before you've won your new clients is also an unusual gamble (what if?). Fares up 14% in March?? From what base? February or last March? either way, 14% is a fair whack and we see plenty of people are indeed noticing........and they're not all happy shareholders :shock:. Large price increases are indeed a double edged sword requiring delicate manipulation............and precise execution.

 

[muppet]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

I have to say, it's absurd to claim that an airline is uncompetitive when they charge more than you want to pay during a peak travel period!
Virgin are competing, and now because of it more people want to fly Virgin. The problem for the OP is, he's used to cheapo Virgin and now he has to compete with people willing to pay real money to fly Virgin.

Why should DJ price fares for the cheapskates when people are willing to pay?

If you actually look at the cost per available seat kilometre as reported by DJ and QF - it's fairly simple equation for both airlines. If you're on a red e-deal or a sub $100 DJ saver fare (as some savers are really pricey) the airlines make absolutely no money, just cost recovery (and lose money if you put a few away in the lounge).

 

[Fruitcake]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

No worries, swanning_it. I've been trying to answer some of those questions re the percentage changes since making my post. At first glance they supported my argument so I jumped on them. But unfortunately the AFR article is very vague to the point of being contradictory. Initial reading of the figures implies they're month-on-month changes but other wording in the article heavily implies they're year-on-year figures - ie March 2011 to March 2012. In that context, an extra 14% of capacity makes sense. And Flexi Fares were introduces in May 2011, I suspect plenty of formerly strictly discount Y pax purchase those occasionally. And J class as well. So a 14% increase in the average fare paid over twelve months also makes sense.

But you're correct in that most of the anecdotes on here reflect very recent increases to fares. A year-on-year figure where there has been such massive changes will tend to mask that. So maybe DJ is indeed now reaching a point where the price charged is outstripping the perceived increase in the value of the offering. (I could be wrong, but I doubt there's too many who say DJ today is a worse customer experience than it was a year ago.)

 

[random111]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

I have to say, it's absurd to claim that an airline is uncompetitive when they charge more than you want to pay during a peak travel period!
Virgin are competing, and now because of it more people want to fly Virgin. The problem for the OP is, he's used to cheapo Virgin and now he has to compete with people willing to pay real money to fly Virgin.

Why should DJ price fares for the cheapskates when people are willing to pay?

If you actually look at the cost per available seat kilometre as reported by DJ and QF - it's fairly simple equation for both airlines. If you're on a red e-deal or a sub $100 DJ saver fare (as some savers are really pricey) the airlines make absolutely no money, just cost recovery (and lose money if you put a few away in the lounge).

Can't be bothered.

read my posts mate, you're way off!

 

[medhead]

I completely disagree. I'm easily finding cheaper fares around holiday times. Booked last week $125 versus $303 on qantas - same route, same departure time. I can buy a damn side better meal with DJ for $178 and still be in front.

It is invalid to make such comments as in the OP if only looking at a single route, same as my experience on my one route doesn't make them cheaper. If your not comparing across the whole network there is absolutely no way to claim they are failing in their rebranding.


Sent from the Throne

 

[muppet]

re: VA's Uncompetitive Prices For (public & school holiday) Leisure Travel

Can't be bothered.

read my posts mate, you're way off!

My bad random111, I had mis-read your OP as a whinge about a lack of cheap fares.

But yes, I often see DJ fares more expensive than QF.