VA 77W will get they get 3-4-3 in Y

[cavemanzk]

With all the changes currently going on at VA including the alinement with NZ's product. Do you think there is any chance of VA refitting there 77W to 3-4-3 in the long term?

 

[Noob]

They are not aligning their entire product with Air New Zealand - this is merely speculative. There is no way they would put a much loved product at risk by jamming another seat in on the 777-300ERs, especially, when they are already making a profit.

 

[Ansettaddict123]

They are not aligning their entire product with Air New Zealand - this is merely speculative. There is no way they would put a much loved product at risk by jamming another seat in on the 777-300ERs, especially, when they are already making a profit.

Why wouldn't they?
EK, CX, NZ all do it, and they're all premium airlines as well. Sure it's a point of difference, but to the degree worth sacrificing the 30 odd extra seats? If anything, the extra seats help keep fares competitive and the cost to the traveller down.

If the economics work (which they do), then it makes sense for VA to pursue it.

 

[Justchecking]

Only when and if they need the extra capacity. I can't imagine it's cheap to reconfig an aircraft that size.

 

[Happy Trails]

Why wouldn't they?
EK, CX, NZ all do it, and they're all premium airlines as well. Sure it's a point of difference, but to the degree worth sacrificing the 30 odd extra seats? If anything, the extra seats help keep fares competitive and the cost to the traveller down.

If the economics work (which they do), then it makes sense for VA to pursue it.

AFAIK CX are all 3-3-3.
Happy to be corrected.

 

[Ansettaddict123]

Only when and if they need the extra capacity. I can't imagine it's cheap to reconfig an aircraft that size.

Agreed on this one. Although I recall JB not being too happy with the VA 77W cabins when he first started, particularly the business cabin, the cost of a reconfig could be prohibitive. That said if the extra capacity was warranted, the extra seats could go a long way to funding this. Perhaps VA may even shrink the Y cabin down (same seat count, slightly less rows) and expand the Y+, as it appears to be a very successful product for them.

AFAIK CX are all 3-3-3.
Happy to be corrected.

Apologies, you're entirely correct

 

[cavemanzk]

Comparing an NZ 77W to an VA 77W

NZ
J 44 Seats (1-2-1)
PE 44 Seats (2-2-2)
Y 244 Seats (3-4-3)

Total 332

VA
J 33 Seats (2-3-2)
PE 40 Seats (2-4-2)
Y 288 Seats (3-3-3)

Total 361

So VA does have 29 more seats than NZ. Although this would likely be due to the smaller J cabin and also that J has 3 seats in the middle.

 

[The Rok]

Agreed on this one. Although I recall JB not being too happy with the VA 77W cabins when he first started, particularly the business cabin, the cost of a reconfig could be prohibitive. That said if the extra capacity was warranted, the extra seats could go a long way to funding this. Perhaps VA may even shrink the Y cabin down (same seat count, slightly less rows) and expand the Y+, as it appears to be a very successful product for them.



Apologies, you're entirely correct

I flew PE from SYD-AUH in April/May this year and there was only 5 people in Y+. I believe some of these were OPUP's also as they were not there for take off, moved by the crew in flight. I know it was the beginning of that route but still not a good sign. I did the same trip in J around the same time and it was almost full....

If anything I would be putting in more J seats and lower the price slightly to make it even better value.

I do love the VA 777ER, I think it is a fantastic fit out and a very nice plane to fly on..... for an Aluminium Death Tube that s....

 

[Mh4k]

FWIW the Y+ cabin has in by experience been near full on flights to and from LAX and near empty on flights to and from AUH. I suspect this may have something to do with EY codeshares being unable to book into Y+.

 

[Bofter]

For my last trans-pacific flights I picked VA because they were 3-3-3 after having given the travel agent instructions to avoid any flights with 3-4-3 on a 777 (there were some AirNZ options) or even 747s because I also find their seats narrower.

To me the 3-3-3 seat configuration is worth a couple of hundred dollars extra on a trans-pacific flight. While there are airlines out there who still provide that in economy, they are the airlines that I will fly regardless of considerations like frequent flyer schemes.

 

[notzac]

FWIW the Y+ cabin has in by experience been near full on flights to and from LAX and near empty on flights to and from AUH. I suspect this may have something to do with EY codeshares being unable to book into Y+.

Definitely true, however the last couple flights through AUH that I've done the whY+ cabin has been closer to full (though still a few empty seats). I suspect this is down to the very well priced mixed class fares that are available to TAs - and I for one hope those fares stick around!

 

[cavemanzk]

To me the 3-3-3 seat configuration is worth a couple of hundred dollars extra on a trans-pacific flight. While there are airlines out there who still provide that in economy, they are the airlines that I will fly regardless of considerations like frequent flyer schemes.

The problem with that is VA isn't charge the extra $100s for the 3-3-3 product. They tend to be around $600 than NZ.

 

[dk4]

With all the changes currently going on at VA including the alinement with NZ's product.

While metal neutrality is important for VA's Tasman joint venture with NZ, the relationship is really short haul in nature.

VA's long haul joint venture partners to - Europe & North America (EY & DL) both fly 777s with 9 abreast seating in economy, so I would be keeping an eye on their configurations, more so than NZ's: As any move by VA (before either of those partners go ten across in Y) would create a significant service/demand imbalance to the EU & US on their joint service routes, where pricing is parallel.


(Noting also: Asian joint venture partner - SQ, is still at 9 abreast on 777s.)

 

[cavemanzk]

While metal neutrality is important for VA's Tasman joint venture with NZ, the relationship is really short haul in nature.

VA's long haul joint venture partners to - Europe & North America (EY & DL) both fly 777s with 9 abreast seating in economy, so I would be keeping an eye on their configurations, more so than NZ's: As any move by VA (before either of those partners go ten across in Y) would create a significant service/demand imbalance to the EU & US on their joint service routes, where pricing is parallel.


(Noting also: Asian joint venture partner - SQ, is still at 9 abreast on 777s.)

While that is true EY/DL & SQ don't own any shares in VA. On the other hand NZ already owns 20% and there is the chance that could grow within the next 48months.

 

[Justchecking]

While that is true EY/DL & SQ don't own any shares in VA. On the other hand NZ already owns 20%

.

Having a financial interest in a company is not the same thing as wanting to duplicate your own.

 

[Noob]

While that is true EY/DL & SQ don't own any shares in VA. On the other hand NZ already owns 20% and there is the chance that could grow within the next 48months.

That can not grow, they have reached the foreign ownership limit - Air NZ can not buy more than 20%.

 

[dk4]

While that is true EY/DL & SQ don't own any shares in VA. On the other hand NZ already owns 20% and there is the chance that could grow within the next 48months.

I would imagine that there is some pressure, at various levels throughout the organisation, to buy the SkyCouch design from NZ (after all NZ said it was out to market its “innovations” to make a return on investment: and if it can’t convince a company in which it has a minority ownership to buy, well who can it?), not to mention pressure on VA to buy the VS Upper Class Suite (or NZ equivalent). (Although my personal preference would be, that they do a "Cathay" and reverse it.)

NZ might also be considering a joint fleet management and procurement company, as a useful tactic to help improve scale.

I guess this is all part of management issues related to consistency and running an international airline by joint venture (with multiple partners), and having vested interests from other airlines on the board. (Not a unique situation though.)

 

[Noob]

not to mention pressure on VA to buy the VS Upper Class Suite (or NZ equivalent). (Although my personal preference would be, that they do a "Cathay" and reverse it.)

There is a new Upper Class suite coming on VS! Let's hope its like Cathay's new product or better.

I really, really hope Virgin do not get Air NZ's new premium economy....Sky couches, maybe, but I would prefer Virgin do their own innovating to be honest!

The holy grail of innovation would have to be a flat bed for everyone in economy, possible? Maybe one day....

 

[Justchecking]

The holy grail of innovation would have to be a flat bed for everyone in economy, possible? Maybe one day....

Yes of course it's possible, it will just cost a J class fare. Oh wait, that's already happened. :shock:

 

[mannej]

Yes of course it's possible, it will just cost a J class fare. Oh wait, that's already happened. :shock:

Or you could do it the Ryan air way. Flat bad but fully vertical!