US visa waiver approved but denied permission to land.

[sammy]

Friends of ours were supposed to fly out to the USA today. A couple in their 50's, 16 y o daughter and elderly grandma. The dad is an accountant and the mum is a nurse. Very conservative WASPy types. They had their visa waiver program approvals months ago.
Qantas rang them this morning to say that the grandmother, mother and daughter have been denied landing approval (from manifest) Qantas reckon it's only ever happened once or twice before.
The US embassy couldn't help and everything stateside was closed. So, the plane left without them and the situation is still unresolved.
I suppose it is some kind of mistaken identity, but it seems crazy. Apparently this is almost unheard of, and they have picked on an elderly lady, a middle aged nurse and a school girl!

 

[simongr]

I don't think that they picked on the people - more likely picked on the names. Out of interest do the three women have similar names?

 

[sammy]

They all have the same surname (including the dad who was OK'd) Mum and daughter have completely different first names. I don't know the grandma but I assume her name is different, too.

 

[harvyk]

I'm going with simongr, I expect that they ran the names over a terrorist watch list and someone somewhere with a similar name (I don't even think it needs to be an exact match) has been flagged on their system. You will most likely need to get a redress number from the DHS which basically says "I know Jane Smith is evil, but I'm not the Jane Smith you are looking for". I believe it then needs to be attached to all future bookings...

Check out TSA: DHS Traveler Redress Inquiry Program (DHS TRIP)

 

[stomplad]

Wow that sucks. To have the visa waiver approved months ago and to then be denied on the last day seems very unfair. What's the point of the whole waiver process then?

 

[harvyk]

Wow that sucks. To have the visa waiver approved months ago and to then be denied on the last day seems very unfair. What's the point of the whole waiver process then?

You'd probably find it's two completely different things, the first is permission by customs to enter the country, the second is permission to fly to the country. Whilst customs is usually the headache for travelers the checks for actually getting on a plane and flying there are only done at T-72 by Department of Homeland Security. (Which is why they prefer all US bound flights to be booked with more than 3 days to spare)

Had the ticket been a direct flight (or at least one which didn't transit in the US) to either Mexico or Canada and the pax then drove across the boarder at a checkpoint then chances are there would have been no problems.

 

[Mal]

Does seem strange, but it Will be a watchlist of sorts. Imho I'd prefer it to happen there instead of arriving and being denied.

 

[sammy]

Yes, I get the similar names thing, but three of them? I would understand it more if they had denied the whole group, but the dad was approved. To me that implies that they approved/denied them each on an individual basis. It also seems a bit odd to deny a minor.
The names are similar in popularity/ethnicity to, say, Greg, Jennifer and Emma Reid (obviously not their real names)
I will post an update on how this all turns out. I expect there will be several phone calls to Washington tonight once US offices ore open.

 

[spudwa]

Yes, I get the similar names thing, but three of them? I would understand it more if they had denied the whole group, but the dad was approved. To me that implies that they approved/denied them each on an individual basis. It also seems a bit odd to deny a minor.
The names are similar in popularity/ethnicity to, say, Greg, Jennifer and Emma Reid (obviously not their real names)
I will post an update on how this all turns out. I expect there will be several phone calls to Washington tonight once US offices ore open.

Wow this sounds scary and random. I've booked for the US next May and while I've been there before its was 30 years ago. How soon can I at least get my visa waiver?

Thanks Paul

 

[Febs]

Wow this sounds scary and random. I've booked for the US next May and while I've been there before its was 30 years ago. How soon can I at least get my visa waiver?

Thanks Paul

You can get it now - it lasts for 2 years.

Cheers,
- Febs.

 

[JohnK]

Wow that sucks. To have the visa waiver approved months ago and to then be denied on the last day seems very unfair. What's the point of the whole waiver process then?

There is no point when they can do what they want.

Sad, sad situation when some know it all can ruin a family holiday.

Paranoia reins supreme and we are no safer....

 

[skywalkerLAX]

Yes, I get the similar names thing, but three of them? I would understand it more if they had denied the whole group, but the dad was approved. To me that implies that they approved/denied them each on an individual basis. It also seems a bit odd to deny a minor.
The names are similar in popularity/ethnicity to, say, Greg, Jennifer and Emma Reid (obviously not their real names)
I will post an update on how this all turns out. I expect there will be several phone calls to Washington tonight once US offices ore open.

I would imagine the females triggered a match on the watchlist. Offices closed is bogus, there is a 24h Hotline in the US for these cases. Most of the time they respond to calls of the airlines and sometimes they send response teams to the airport if they have a confirmed hit.

They wouldn't have been denied entry but most certainly gotten a secondary inspection. Given the description of the passengers that should have turned out easy. Get a redress number!

Good luck with it!

 

[sammy]

Sorry Skywalker, but yes they were denied. According to Qantas it had only ever happened on their flights once or twice before, ever. (that is, this doesn't even happen once every few years) It was not some regular hassle. Politicians and diplomats were even deployed to get it sorted (but could not do so in the four hours or so to their original flight)

They managed to fly out the next day, and were busy for most of that time trying to sort it out. I will get the full story when they get back, and update here.

 

[skywalkerLAX]

Sorry Skywalker, but yes they were denied. According to Qantas it had only ever happened on their flights once or twice before, ever. (that is, this doesn't even happen once every few years) It was not some regular hassle. Politicians and diplomats were even deployed to get it sorted (but could not do so in the four hours or so to their original flight)

They managed to fly out the next day, and were busy for most of that time trying to sort it out. I will get the full story when they get back, and update here.

Being denied to board and being denied to enter at port of arrival are two different things.

They triggered a watchlist alert and needed to be cleared by Department of Homeland Security. Then they are able to fly.

Being denied entry means they arrive in the US, the CBP denies them entry based on ineligibility and they have to depart foreign (usually on the same carrier) on the same day. Worst case the individuals in question spend the time in a 'holding area' until the next available flight is ready to depart.

I doubt that the diplomatic corps is being 'deployed' to clear a travel issue of 3 passengers. This is a very common procedure, maybe not in Australia because there might be not many similar named individuals to the watchlist departing... Other countries (especially islamic ones) can give you the 1x1 on the drill. Even in Europe the procedures are pretty well known because of the many passengers transiting from the middle east & africa. In the old time (not that long ago actually) of the SSSS markings on the boarding passes you would be surprised how many pax are marked to receive special treatment even at airport security. If your name was Hussein or Saleh then you are in for something. Rarely the airlines will have a confirmed hit on the 'No Fly List' but if it's someone 'critical' then the ****e hit's the fan to put in in correct terms. Saw it once in Detroit... not pretty!

 

[Febs]

Does anyone know how to check the status of an ESTA submitted (and approved) ages ago? My fiancee did one about 18 months ago, but I'd like to check exactly how long ago it was before submitting another one. I know it's only $10, but no point if we don't have to.

The website seems to let you check in-progress applications, but not already-approved ones?

Cheers,
- Febs.

 

[Anna]

The website seems to let you check in-progress applications, but not already-approved ones?

If you click on "retrieve application number" and key in your information, it will come back with the ESTA approval number and date details.

At least mine did, a couple of weeks ago, when I needed to update it (and just then when I rechecked before posting). My ESTA is still current - I don't know what happens if it has expired.

 

[The Rok]

I was in a similar situation in Miami 5 years ago. Was departing Miami for London when I was stopped and pulled at random from the security line after I had checked in. Was questioned for about 2 hours by Miami Beach Police,Dade County Sheriff's Dept, Florida Highway Patrol , FBI and DHS. All were fairly quick except for FBI. Local police really were just checking for outstanding warrants. I was lucky as I had a rather large speeding fine the week earlier which I contemplated not paying but did in the end.

In the end they apologised profusely and airport security escorted me directly to the plane. I was the last to board and was escorted onto the plane by security. DHS then spoke to fit CSM (I think to apologise). I got super service on board (VS Upper Class ticket) but I got a LOT of awkward looks from other passengers.

All good in the end.

I did find out why eventually. I went through a similar situation at Atlanta the following month and a year later was going through immigration pre clearance in Shannon before a flight to NYC. Same thing again.Turns out DHS don't like it when you have an Egyptian stamp and a Turkish stamp on your passport.

 

[sergeyvzn]

What's wrong with Egyptian and Turkish stamps???

Are you sure? - half of Europe would then be stopped in the US as Egypt (until recently) and Turkey are very popular holiday destinations for Europeans, especially Germans and Scandinavans. Every 3d German tourist would have multiple Turkish and Egyptian stamps in their passports but I don't remember hearing of LH flights being delayed in the US due to the DHS concerns of similar sorts

 

[sammy]

When I lived in Japan, I(and my spouse) had a SSSS US security rating for more than 5 years, for no reason they could/would tell me, other than my constantly atypical profile on Japan/US flights (not being Japanese or American) as evidenced by the SSSS on my boarding passes. What was so silly, is that (when travelling with a friend or my daughter) I could just hand them most of my carry ons (while in the queue!) to minimise the length of the search.

Skywalker, as I originally stated, my friends were denied permission to land several hours before their flight left (while they were still at home). I never said they were denied permission to enter.

And (of course) the political/diplomatic help they received was through the personal connections of the individuals involved. Anyone would call on all the connections they had in the same position.
Or do you doubt that too?

You may as well just call me a liar (or stupid) than to keep on writing that you "doubt" whether what I have said really occurred.

 

[skywalkerLAX]

This is what you said

Sorry Skywalker, but yes they were denied.

The SSSS flag can be triggered by many circumstances: Purchased Ticket just short (few days) before departure, One way ticket, Ticket paid in cash, Similarity to watchlist name, Citizenship, Itinerary involving critical destinations (Yemen, Pakistan etc)... Thanks the lord this bogus is over.

I don't say that you are lying or the situation never occurred. But you almost put it as it was close to a diplomatic crisis even though this sort of thing happens numerous times everyday somewhere in the world. If the individuals involved have contacts that can help out of course that might be useful in some instances. However you should have mentioned that these were personal connections when you state that 'diplomats have been deployed'. It adds a little spice to the story but is neither SOP nor does it help people who might get into the same situation in the future and remember this thread for reference.

Merry Christmas !