Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[Saab34]

I noted this in an article so was a little surprised, having a look on EF, does appear many dead flights still here and there.

Not sure how long this aviation fund last for from the government. Certainly would be a money burner this flight, even more so considering the lease costs for a new MAX and one whole aircraft is essentially dedicated to the route

Virgin Australia also cancelled its VA78 service from Haneda to Cairns on Sunday. There were 59 passengers booked on the flight who have since been rebooked onto services scheduled to depart on Monday and Tuesday evening.

 

[PERLHR]

I noted this in an article so was a little surprised, having a look on EF, does appear many dead flights still here and there.

Not sure how long this aviation fund last for from the government. Certainly would be a money burner this flight, even more so considering the lease costs for a new MAX and one whole aircraft is essentially dedicated to the route

I assume the canx is all due to the weather related issues around Cairns.

 

[elanshin]

I noted this in an article so was a little surprised, having a look on EF, does appear many dead flights still here and there.

Not sure how long this aviation fund last for from the government. Certainly would be a money burner this flight, even more so considering the lease costs for a new MAX and one whole aircraft is essentially dedicated to the route

I mean everything about VA HND <> CNS makes little sense. Lack of lounge, single aisle vs the JQi 787. No sales from JP side. If you're at SYD / MEL, ANA flight sales get pretty cheap (pulling random February date, NH is only 10% more expensive than VA direct fron SYD on VA's own search).

The incentives to fly VA to HND are really just not there and I guess that's now reflected loads. That being said, maybe because it's low load, theres more room on the plane so it's actually better?

 

[Auski]

I mean everything about VA HND <> CNS makes little sense. Lack of lounge, single aisle vs the JQi 787. No sales from JP side. If you're at SYD / MEL, ANA flight sales get pretty cheap (pulling random February date, NH is only 10% more expensive than VA direct fron SYD on VA's own search).

The incentives to fly VA to HND are really just not there and I guess that's now reflected loads. That being said, maybe because it's low load, theres more room on the plane so it's actually better?

I was looking at Syd Hnd Feb and ANA was $300 cheaper than VA (each way) on VA website. Ended up getting a great JAL PE deal for not much more than VA and includes lounge.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I mean everything about VA HND <> CNS makes little sense. Lack of lounge, single aisle vs the JQi 787. No sales from JP side. If you're at SYD / MEL, ANA flight sales get pretty cheap (pulling random February date, NH is only 10% more expensive than VA direct fron SYD on VA's own search).

Virgin does have somethings going for it over ANA. For instance, you cannot compare the onboard service of ANA to Virgin Australia, they're in a league of their own.

 

[eastwest101]

I mean everything about VA HND <> CNS makes little sense. Lack of lounge, single aisle vs the JQi 787. No sales from JP side. If you're at SYD / MEL, ANA flight sales get pretty cheap (pulling random February date, NH is only 10% more expensive than VA direct fron SYD on VA's own search).

The incentives to fly VA to HND are really just not there and I guess that's now reflected loads. That being said, maybe because it's low load, theres more room on the plane so it's actually better?

Yep - for Australian passengers unless you live in the CNS area the VA CNS-HND makes absolutely no sense from a cost or connections point of view, especially when Australians living in places like BNE-SYD-MEL have many good options and competition with JL NH QF and JQ all offering widebody direct flights without stupid transits in CNS and much better hard products in Y Y+ and J class. For people at the Japanese end - if they are going to CNS then its an option if they are going to CNS on holiday, and is at least an alternative to JQ.

Its QLD state government funding and slot squatting, as part of the eventual sale/IPO of VA at a later date.

 

[PERLHR]

I priced from Perth. Next year. ANA direct 787 10,000 AUD in biz. Going around the country in 19 hours via BNS and CNS 2,500 AUD in VA Biz (mostly MAX operated flights). . Plenty of Status points for the money. I'm crazy enough to try it .. .if it is still flying! .

 

[kangarooflyer88]

For people at the Japanese end - if they are going to CNS then its an option if they are going to CNS on holiday, and is at least an alternative to JQ.

For people at the Japanese end ANA is doing a disservice by offering these flights on their website. Passengers book with ANA expecting Japanese quality service only to be disappointed when they receive crazy old Uncle Harrold's quality of service.

 

[PERLHR]

View attachment 359435

For people at the Japanese end ANA is doing a disservice by offering these flights on their website. Passengers book with ANA expecting Japanese quality service only to be disappointed when they receive crazy old Uncle Harrold's quality of service.

Probably no worse though than any non Aussie oneworld junky buying a QF ticket and ending up on JQ on numerous routes!

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I priced from Perth. Next year. ANA direct 787 10,000 AUD in biz. Going around the country in 19 hours via BNS and CNS 2,500 AUD in VA Biz (mostly MAX operated flights).

That could represent excellent value for money if you want to attain status and don't mind the connections.

Plenty of Status points for the money. I'm crazy enough to try it .. .if it is still flying! .

And even if Virgin isn't operating the flight, all the better, since they'll have to rebook you on another airline in business which presumably will be more valuable than the ticket you already purchased (i.e. ANA non-stop business).For those wondering why - two reasons. First, in contract law (which I suspect they have in Australia), if both parties agree to something and the other party cannot deliver upon its promise, there needs to be some sort of remedy. Now some may argue that a refund is a remedy to the solution, but one must ask, does that make the passenger whole? I would argue not since they made other bookings in reliance of Virgin fulfilling its end of the bargain (i.e. hotel reservations, etc.) Additionally, refunding the money won't make them whole since the prices of flights likely have gone up and so they would likely have to pay considerably more for the flights making a new reservation later when the airline cancelled than when they originally had booked. Second, both Australia and Japan are signatories to the Montreal Convention on International travel by air. One of the clauses in that convention is the possibility of passengers being reimbursed up to $7000 USD for out of pocket expenses incurred during travel caused by the airline. So presumably one could go after the airline for reimbursement of new flights in addition to the refund to be made whole on their new flight. With all of that being said, I am not a lawyer but that is my understanding of the relevant laws.

Post automatically merged: Dec 19, 2023

Probably no worse though than any non Aussie oneworld junky buying a QF ticket and ending up on JQ on numerous routes!

As someone who is a non-Aussie OneWorld junkie who flies JétStar, the luxury airline of Qantas, I take exception to such remarks!

 

[Auski]

I priced from Perth. Next year. ANA direct 787 10,000 AUD in biz. Going around the country in 19 hours via BNS and CNS 2,500 AUD in VA Biz (mostly MAX operated flights). . Plenty of Status points for the money. I'm crazy enough to try it .. .if it is still flying! .

You are comparing lie flat business to VA business which is basically PE.

 

[sudoer]

No sales from JP side.

This was a thing very briefly when the route launched, but is no longer a limitation. JP pax have been able to book ex-JP flights direct with VA in JPY for quite a while now.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I priced from Perth. Next year. ANA direct 787 10,000 AUD in biz. Going around the country in 19 hours via BNS and CNS 2,500 AUD in VA Biz (mostly MAX operated flights). . Plenty of Status points for the money. I'm crazy enough to try it .. .if it is still flying! .

That's not what I'm finding when I search online. Most of the dates for Virgin are $4K+ in business class (still a bit of a discount over the QANAL oligopoly of the market). Indeed, when Google flights did show flights which cost $2.5K as you pointed out, Virgin was ticketing it as a mixed cabin flight with domestic sectors in economy and the long haul sector in business class, which would negate the status run benefit of such an itinerary:


Now I cannot speak for Virgin Australia status but where this could become interesting is for United Airlines status. Status on United is earned through a mechanism similar to status credits called Premier Qualifying Points (PQP) which is simply the miles flown * a class of service bonus divided by a magic number. Since Virgin is a preferred partner the magic number is 5. If we suppose for a moment that you fly PER > CNS > HND with Virgin, ticketed into J for $2,600 AUD (which is a big assumption) that would work out to:

1. Perth to Cairns: 2,133 mi * 200% class of service bonus / 5 = 853 PQP
2. Cairns to Haneda: 3,627 mi * 200% class of service bonus / 5 = 1,450 PQP

So a return flight would earn you 4600 PQP which per United would get you to nearly to Premier Silver (their lowest tier status) or 46% of the way to United Premier Gold (their equivalent of United Gold). Remember too that you would also need to take 4 flights with United sometime during the year. If you add in connections it would be possible I reckon to get it up to 5000 PQP earned.

 

[bcworld]

View attachment 359437

I dunno about PER...but SQ has been selling oneway TYO-MEL/SYD in 'proper' business for approx. A$1.5k for ages now. You'd be mad to take VA.

 

[Harrison_133]

I noted this in an article so was a little surprised, having a look on EF, does appear many dead flights still here and there.

The BITRE stats for August and September were both released last week. They’re the first full months of MAX ops. I’ve included the other carriers for comparison:

Outbound
Virgin: August - 69.1%, September - 67.3%
Jetstar: August - 73.7%, September - 81.0%
Qantas: August - 86.9%, September 92.7%
ANA: August, 61.5% September - 77.2%
JAL: August - 89.0%, September - 91.2%

Inbound
Virgin: August - 67.3%, September - 55.6%
Jetstar: August - 67.6%, September - 66.5%
Qantas: August - 83.6%, September - 81.7%
ANA: August - 55.1%, September - 53.2%
JAL: August - 85.2%, September - 84.6%

 

[PERLHR]

I dunno about PER...but SQ has been selling oneway TYO-MEL/SYD in 'proper' business for approx. A$1.5k for ages now. You'd be mad to take VA.

Never from Perth. Lucky to get basic Y to SIN for that price.

The ex PER flight I mentioned earlier was booked a few weeks ago and yes at 2.5K "biz" all the way.. Gotta be quick when you see a potential bargain.

Mad doing so? Time will tell. Thing is from Perth you accept more and prices and distances for just about everywhere takes hours and connections so you don't really mind so much
Yes it has risen significantly since then.

 

[Bagpuss]

I priced from Perth. Next year. ANA direct 787 10,000 AUD in biz. Going around the country in 19 hours via BNS and CNS 2,500 AUD in VA Biz (mostly MAX operated flights). . Plenty of Status points for the money. I'm crazy enough to try it .. .if it is still flying! .

Same here. With a DSC promotion think I'd do it haha.

 

[PERLHR]

You are comparing lie flat business to VA business which is basically PE.

Trueish.. But then again on all other VA routes everyone pretty much says biz dont they rather than VA Prem Economy comparison? So for the price I'm paying ex PER to HND I would possibly pay more on PER-SYD-PER. A flight that can be actually over 5 hours but no one really says that's prem Economy. We know what the product is. No surprises.

 

[Digicola]

The BITRE stats for August and September were both released last week. They’re the first full months of MAX ops. I’ve included the other carriers for comparison:

Outbound
Virgin: August - 69.1%, September - 67.3%
Jetstar: August - 73.7%, September - 81.0%
Qantas: August - 86.9%, September 92.7%
ANA: August, 61.5% September - 77.2%
JAL: August - 89.0%, September - 91.2%

Inbound
Virgin: August - 67.3%, September - 55.6%
Jetstar: August - 67.6%, September - 66.5%
Qantas: August - 83.6%, September - 81.7%
ANA: August - 55.1%, September - 53.2%
JAL: August - 85.2%, September - 84.6%

Those NH numbers are dismal

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Those NH numbers are dismal

Which suggests to me that maybe NH will release more award availability to Australia to make up for the short fall. After all, it's better getting something for those seats than nothing!