Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[AIRwin]

I got to fly CNS-HND in business a few days back

Sounds like Business was full?

 

[Digicola]

Sounds like Business was full?

6/8 in my case, very lucky I had an empty seat next to me.

 

[BNEFlyer]

Thanks for the report! I don’t think the Max is going to solve any of the seat issues. I flew on the new seats last week… they are a little softer, and the tray table is better, but no change to legroom or recline. No cabin divider on the new interior planes, although that might change with the max? The leg rest was useless… came up, and out, by no more than a couple of centimetres. No one used them.

Printed menu is nice!

A new cabin divider will be fitted to the Max’s and ex-MI planes and eventually retrofitted to the other aircraft.

 

[jase05]

which VA doesn’t offer.

Still in negotiations I believe and last I had heard was that they were hoping to have something in place in the coming months

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Still in negotiations I believe and last I had heard was that they were hoping to have something in place in the coming months

Yeah. You know it really shouldn’t be that hard. ANA is a VA partner. How hard is it to agree to pay $50 for each business class passenger to enter the NH lounge? you’d think it was a 5 minute negotiation.

 

[jase05]

Yeah. You know it really shouldn’t be that hard. ANA is a VA partner. How hard is it to agree to pay $50 for each business class passenger to enter the NH lounge? you’d think it was a 5 minute negotiation.

Agree there. I guess they still haven’t signed off on the whole partnership yet.
Obviously negotiations in Australia with a third party lounge is dragging its chain too

 

[Himeno]

Agree there. I guess they still haven’t signed off on the whole partnership yet.
Obviously negotiations in Australia with a third party lounge is dragging its chain too

How could they not have signed off on it? They've had 3 years to work it out.

 

[jase05]

How could they not have signed off on it? They've had 3 years to work it out.

Who knows, maybe it’s NH that are dragging their chain. The partnership was meant to be in effect for the inaugural flight but it seems no closer.

 

[MarkD]

Yes, but that won’t fix the seat, lack of legroom, and useless leg rest It’s a premium economy product, not business.

Which is probably how they should sell it, as it would compete directly with jetstar, and most premium economies don’t come with lounge access, which VA doesn’t offer.

Jetstar also sell theirs as “Business class” I believe. At the end of the day it is most certainly an improvement and the reality is most flights will be under 3 hours on these aircraft. Lets face it, the haneda run is a place holder that adds value for sale. There is little expectation of profit using 737s.
Personally, if I was to go to Tokyo, I wouldn't be going that far on a 737 regardless of seats and I don't fly Jetstar so Im limited to actual full service airlines.

 

[justinbrett]

Agree there. I guess they still haven’t signed off on the whole partnership yet.
Obviously negotiations in Australia with a third party lounge is dragging its chain too

I’d say it’s financial. They’re obviously losing a lot of money on the route with the current loads, no need to exacerbate that with lounge contracts.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I’d say it’s financial. They’re obviously losing a lot of money on the route with the current loads, no need to exacerbate that with lounge contracts.

Even losing one passenger because of no lounge access would have a greater negative effect?

 

[MooTime]

I’d say it’s financial. They’re obviously losing a lot of money on the route with the current loads, no need to exacerbate that with lounge contracts.

I don't believe VA losing any money the the HND route, as been posted so many time, it's all compensated by QLD Tourism. That can't be underestimated.

Mind you it's only been flying for 2 weeks.

Lounge access would def add to the pax onboard, to what degree nobody knows.

 

[justinbrett]

I don't believe VA losing any money the the HND route, as been posted so many time, it's all compensated by QLD Tourism. That can't be underestimated.

Do you actually know how the AAIF scheme works? I've not met anybody who does - it's all very secret.

I very much doubt it's a blanket "cover all your losses". I also very much doubt QLD expected VA to be carrying loads as low as 17.

The bucket of money is not that big (200 million over 3 years, spread over currently 22 routes). They estimate it will cover 5.3 million seats a year - if that's distributed on a seat by seat basis, VA can expect a subsidy of around $12.50 per seat. That's nowhere near enough to cover their current losses (though it may well improve in the future).

If it is distributed only to airlines who make a loss, then that's a pretty stupid system.

 

[MooTime]

Do you actually know how the AAIF scheme works? I've not met anybody who does - it's all very secret.

I very much doubt it's a blanket "cover all your losses". I also very much doubt QLD expected VA to be carrying loads as low as 17.

The bucket of money is not that big (200 million over 3 years, spread over currently 22 routes). They estimate it will cover 5.3 million seats a year - if that's distributed on a seat by seat basis, VA can expect a subsidy of around $12.50 per seat. That's nowhere near enough to cover their current losses (though it may well improve in the future).

If it is distributed only to airlines who make a loss, then that's a pretty stupid system.

Do you actually know?

yet you happy to assume things, yet nobody else can assume anything.

Yes let's use the lowest number onboard 17, not an average?

The funds are not distributed to loss making routes, it's to promote tourism where 1 hand can lose for the other hand to win handsomely, anyhow I'll stop assuming & leave that to you.

 

[justinbrett]

Do you actually know?

yet you happy to assume things, yet nobody else can assume anything.

Yes let's use the lowest number onboard 17, not an average?

The funds are not distributed to loss making routes, it's to promote tourism where 1 hand can lose for the other hand to win handsomely, anyhow I'll stop assuming & leave that to you.

No, I don't know it works (thought I was clear on that) - except for the detail in that post which are facts from the QLD media release / AAIF website.

Many here are just saying "oh it's covered by AAIF", but as I've demonstrated, that's a finite resource and it seems we both agree it's not being distributed on the basis of loss. From that we see the subsidy is, at best, in the tens of dollars per seat - not hundreds of dollars per seat. The landing fee at HND alone is around 200,000 yen (~A$2K)

I did say "as low as 17", and it doesn't really matter whether it's 17 or 70, it's a far cry from the capacity of the aircraft. I think their fares were too high, but it looks to me like they are starting to discount them further, so it may well improve for them.

 

[Notyourbag]

Are the J amenity kits the same as what were provided on the long haul VA routes pre pandemic? I thought VA no longer use Hunter Lab.

 

[twinaisle]

Are the J amenity kits the same as what were provided on the long haul VA routes pre pandemic? I thought VA no longer use Hunter Lab.

It's the black/purple mesh one with the hunter lip balm or so in it.

 

[AIRwin]

I would have expected that they release details about their codeshare agreements

Virgin Australia Begins ANA Codeshare Partnership From mid-July 2023 — AeroRoutes

Published at 0700GMT 10JUL23 Virgin Australia from mid-July 2023 begins codeshare partnership with ANA, as the codeshare agreement expands to reciprocal deal. Following codeshare service will commence on 18JUL23, while Tokyo Narita – Perth service scheduled from late-October 2023. Virgin Austral

www.aeroroutes.com

 

[Digicola]

Virgin Australia Begins ANA Codeshare Partnership From mid-July 2023 — AeroRoutes

Published at 0700GMT 10JUL23 Virgin Australia from mid-July 2023 begins codeshare partnership with ANA, as the codeshare agreement expands to reciprocal deal. Following codeshare service will commence on 18JUL23, while Tokyo Narita – Perth service scheduled from late-October 2023. Virgin Austral

www.aeroroutes.com

Well well I guess 18th July is the first day of the partnership then. If previous announcements are anything to go by, we’ll have the official release on Wednesday.

Pity Seoul isn’t included would have been a nice way to do a Japan/Korea trip and would have opened up CNS to Koreans without the significant backtrack that is currently required when going via BNE/OOL/SYD/SIN

 

[AIRwin]

Well well I guess 18th July is the first day of the partnership then.

On a separate note NH must have been busy - SQ codeshare expansion and now VA:

Singapore Airlines Expands ANA Domestic Japan Codeshare From July 2023 — AeroRoutes

Published at 0600GMT 10JUL23 Star Alliance member Singapore Airlines since last week expanded codeshare partnership with ANA, covering additional 20 domestic routes within Japan. Selected routes are codeshare service resumption. Following codeshare routes gradually went into effect since 07JUL23 a

www.aeroroutes.com