Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[AviatorInsight]

On a side note, the inaugural Bonza flight from Melbourne to Tamworth and back today had a Bonza captain and a Virgin Australia captain obviously line training on the MAX-8, some extra income for Bonza at least.

I find that very odd also. Different procedures? Unless it’s a complete carbon copy of VA’s SOPs. When the RAAF got the Wedgetail and Poseidons, it was VA training Captains that got the RAAF pilots up to speed. But this is very different. Were they wearing the VA uniform?

 

[HS-TQE]

VA relinquished 25-30??? 737, all of its non 737 including A330/B777
Easy to see they can only achieve 80% of pre Rona capacity

Still the legacy Skywest F100s and the 6x ex-TT A320s at VARA. VH-VND (A320ceo) was delivered 2 months ago to replace VH-YUD which was retired at the end of 2022.

Although the F100s are slowly being phased out for the ex-KLM -700s.

 

[Saab34]

I find that very odd also. Different procedures? Unless it’s a complete carbon copy of VA’s SOPs. When the RAAF got the Wedgetail and Poseidons, it was VA training Captains that got the RAAF pilots up to speed. But this is very different. Were they wearing the VA uniform?

I sure you might be able to suss out for us, but I assume perhaps either the CP or Head of Check Training?

I guess CASA might see it as helpful sending a Virgin rep along before they themselves go through a CASA approval process next month. After all, they have spent the best part of 1-2 years working with Bonza on the intro.

 

[Quickstatus]

Still

Sure, but Hardly a replacement of the relinquished aircraft.
a better question is whether the remaining aircraft are fully utilised.

 

[AviatorInsight]

I sure you might be able to suss out for us, but I assume perhaps either the CP or Head of Check Training?

I guess CASA might see it as helpful sending a Virgin rep along before they themselves go through a CASA approval process next month. After all, they have spent the best part of 1-2 years working with Bonza on the intro.

Maybe. But I highly doubt they would be in a control seat operating a revenue service flight anyway.

 

[BNEFlyer]

Been watching the discussion on this thread - decided to have a play around with “options”.

Fuel stop problematic - PNG not attractive lest aircraft gets stuck there but POM may be (best/only/an) option and is an extremely minor “diversion” from GC routing.

Other options like DPS - existing served airport…., CGK, MNL etc are all major diversions (MNL ~1000mi, rest even more).

Palau a more “halfway” option but recovery from there problematic. Guam a problem unless they get a US immigration exemption - seems unlikely. NZ probably a) were better planned about it and b) could immediately transport back to NZ ex-LAX if anyone not eligible for US entry was “stuck” on NZ1/2 - VA wouldn’t have this option in Guam if the aircraft went US.

Only other possibility would have been to wet lease something - feels late to be trying to do that economically / sustainably and for how long (pending the Max arrival).

Note direct CNS-HND by GC distance would be amongst the longest 737-operated nonstop route - I cant imagine it’s particularly viable with a NG (even a -700). Never mind weather related-diversions.

Net conclusion - it’s a bit of a mess, would love to be fly on the wall for internal discussion and assumptions on this route.

It’s going to be interesting to watch how initial operations go on this one.

KUL-MEL on Batik is the longest 737 flight at the moment at around 8 hours which is about 450km longer than CNS-HND. Batik's 737 Max's have a 16 J/159 Y cabin. VA's 737s 8 J/168 Y (one less than Batik).

A 737-800NG would need to stop in GUM, that's the only viable option. It's too far out of the way to stop in MNL/CEB/KHH.

 

[TripleB]

Back before QF started to take delivery of their A330s (which must be nearly 20 years ago now) a small number of Qantas flight crew spent some time flying for Malaysia Airlines on their A330s to get some hours on the type and some line experience.

One would assume that the crew were paid by QF and had to be checked to line by the MH training hierarchy after time in the sim with MH's SOPs. You'd assume that MH would have been paid some kind of fee over the top as well.

 

[Quickstatus]

You'd assume that MH would have been paid some kind of fee over the top as well.

Maybe paid by Airbus? because at the time if I recall, Airbus was trying to get the QF A380 deal over the line with a side deal of A330 at a cheap price?.

 

[ANstar]

Its common... Virgin Atlantic also did it with their 787s... sent their pilots to Norwegian to do final training on the type.

 

[BNEFlyer]

VA also had crew flying on EY when they were getting the 777's.

 

[_flyer]

I would say Virgin Australia plans to keep the route and is still confident that the aircraft will arrive on time, as they have just launched a sale - as low as $793 return ex GC. I doubt they would launch a sale, if the late arrival of the aircraft could impact future operations with regards to slot rights and IASC approvals.

Virgin Australia has just dropped prices on flights to Tokyo, Japan. Travelling in February to early March/24 on Virgin Australia.
Flights to Japan from $793 Return on Virgin Australia. Bags and Meals included

 

[Bagpuss]

I would say Virgin Australia plans to keep the route and is still confident that the aircraft will arrive on time, as they have just launched a sale - as low as $793 return ex GC. I doubt they would launch a sale, if the late arrival of the aircraft could impact future operations with regards to slot rights and IASC approvals.

Virgin Australia has just dropped prices on flights to Tokyo, Japan. Travelling in February to early March/24 on Virgin Australia.
Flights to Japan from $793 Return on Virgin Australia. Bags and Meals included

Just like any business, you have to operate as if things will continue to operate forever. Airlines have been known to have a sale and then be in administration the next.

However, it would signal to the regulators etc. the company's intent to operate at the very least.

 

[Saab34]

I would say Virgin Australia plans to keep the route and is still confident that the aircraft will arrive on time, as they have just launched a sale

‘Boeing have not provided us with any information’ came from Virgin camp last week. Hardly confidence.

 

[Quickstatus]

Virgin Australia has just dropped prices on flights to Tokyo,

Says to me the travelling public to TYO has lost confidence. They want certainty that their flight is going to occur. No benefit holding a ticket without an aircraft to take you there

 

[HS-TQE]

Except that Meals aren't included in Y on VA's HND service. The only enhancements for Y is 'bottled' water on boarding. It's a dedicated Japanese themed BoB menu for Y passengers.

 

[pauly7]

Says to me the travelling public to TYO has lost confidence. They want certainty that their flight is going to occur. No benefit holding a ticket without an aircraft to take you there

Mmmm perhaps that is one of the causes of the price drop.

I’d add to this and speculate it’s not selling well because the route is niche, most traffic would depart the big 3 eastern ports where there are plenty of strong options (product and price) and on the reverse traffic side - the Virgin brand is unknown in Japan. The Japanese are quite particular about brands.

 

[Saab34]

I was reading that Virgin isn’t getting its modification done anytime soon on another forum, and this blog seems to confirm that. So effectively you can say, Virgin won’t be getting its MAX for this route for launch. 15 days in the workshop next month or after that, plus another month of testing, final assembly, then 1-2 weeks introduction for crew and CASA review, might not be until mid August, and that is the earliest.

Paine Field May 4

KLM 787-10 PH-BKI delivery flight to Amsterdam. Qatar Airways 737 A7-BSI was moved to the 40-21 on April 30 to begin STA 1016 fitting...

kpae.blogspot.com

 

[docjames]

Says to me the travelling public to TYO has lost confidence. They want certainty that their flight is going to occur. No benefit holding a ticket without an aircraft to take you there

Joe average would have no idea re: aircraft and would just assume Virgin had sometthing capable.

Mmmm perhaps that is one of the causes of the price drop.

I’d add to this and speculate it’s not selling well because the route is niche, most traffic would depart the big 3 eastern ports where there are plenty of strong options (product and price) and on the reverse traffic side - the Virgin brand is unknown in Japan. The Japanese are quite particular about brands.

I think these two reasons are the more likely reason for the price drop.

 

[_flyer]

I was reading that Virgin isn’t getting its modification done anytime soon on another forum, and this blog seems to confirm that. So effectively you can say, Virgin won’t be getting its MAX for this route for launch. 15 days in the workshop next month or after that, plus another month of testing, final assembly, then 1-2 weeks introduction for crew and CASA review, might not be until mid August, and that is the earliest.

Paine Field May 4

KLM 787-10 PH-BKI delivery flight to Amsterdam. Qatar Airways 737 A7-BSI was moved to the 40-21 on April 30 to begin STA 1016 fitting...

kpae.blogspot.com

I really hope not, I really wish Virgin Australia would communicate with customers who have booked to fly in late June/early July. They are set to start flying in less than 8 weeks. If it’s not going to happen, how are we getting there? As other have said they will likely accommodate guests, but we need to know sooner rather than later.

 

[Quickstatus]

how are we getting there?

with NH