Return of Wifi on Virgin Australia

[jase05]

Disappointingly from my take on the article o saw this morning it seems like it’s been delayed further and that only about half the fleet will be getting it. Unless a mistake in the article it seems to indicate that the start date of installation is still over a year away

Virgin Australia picks 2Ku for Wi-Fi boost | PaxEx.Aero

With aims of profitability by mid-2023, Virgin Australia is ready to bring back inflight Wi-Fi for its fleet. The carrier announced plans to (re)activate the Intelsat 2Ku system on board.

paxex.aero

 

[SeaWolf]

Unless a mistake in the article it seems to indicate that the start date of installation is still over a year away

There's now been an update to the article.

UPDATE: An Intelsat spokesperson confirms that the installs will begin in late 2022, not 2023.

 

[jase05]

There's now been an update to the article.

Thanks.
Was hoping that was the case.
Still only half the fleet though unfortunately

 

[ozstamps]

Jayney's cost cutters only look at $ COST to them.

They do not get the big picture that no wifi means LOTS of losses, as in flight food and booze purchases cannot be processed online while they are nickel and diming on this, and delaying it more and more.

On my SYD-Cairns flight yesterday THREE pax within my earshot were trying to order stuff as it is a 3 hour flight, and all were told NOT POSSIBLE unless you have a physical card. On just one flight.

Heaps of folks these days only use phones or devices to tap and pay by card. One chap in row ahead of me had ordered $29 of stuff for he and partner, and asked if he could pay CASH seeing their lack of technology meant his phone stored card did not work, and FA said NO. So he bad naturedly cancelled it all.

Clearly annoyed him, cost Virgin money, as profit on this stuff is massive, and held up the FA, and made them look like Hillbilly Air. to all within earshot.

 

[MooTime]

Jayney's cost cutters only look at $ COST to them.

They do not get the big picture that no wifi means LOTS of losses, as in flight food and booze purchases cannot be processed online while they are nickel and diming on this, and delaying it more and more.

On my SYD-Cairns flight yesterday THREE pax within my earshot were trying to order stuff as it is a 3 hour flight, and all were told NOT POSSIBLE unless you have a physical card. On just one flight.

Heaps of folks these days only use phones or devices to tap and pay by card. One chap in row ahead of me had ordered $29 of stuff for he and partner, and asked if he could pay CASH seeing their lack of technology meant his phone stored card did not work, and FA said NO. So he bad naturedly cancelled it all.

Clearly annoyed him, cost Virgin money, as profit on this stuff is massive, and held up the FA, and made them look like Hillbilly Air. to all within earshot.

You should really be flying a full service carrier, not a mid tier / hybrid carrier.

 

[simmomelb]

Jayney's cost cutters only look at $ COST to them.

They do not get the big picture that no wifi means LOTS of losses, as in flight food and booze purchases cannot be processed online while they are nickel and diming on this, and delaying it more and more.

On my SYD-Cairns flight yesterday THREE pax within my earshot were trying to order stuff as it is a 3 hour flight, and all were told NOT POSSIBLE unless you have a physical card. On just one flight.

Heaps of folks these days only use phones or devices to tap and pay by card. One chap in row ahead of me had ordered $29 of stuff for he and partner, and asked if he could pay CASH seeing their lack of technology meant his phone stored card did not work, and FA said NO. So he bad naturedly cancelled it all.

Clearly annoyed him, cost Virgin money, as profit on this stuff is massive, and held up the FA, and made them look like Hillbilly Air. to all within earshot.

Jayney's cost cutters only look at $ COST to them.

They do not get the big picture that no wifi means LOTS of losses, as in flight food and booze purchases cannot be processed online while they are nickel and diming on this, and delaying it more and more.

On my SYD-Cairns flight yesterday THREE pax within my earshot were trying to order stuff as it is a 3 hour flight, and all were told NOT POSSIBLE unless you have a physical card. On just one flight.

Heaps of folks these days only use phones or devices to tap and pay by card. One chap in row ahead of me had ordered $29 of stuff for he and partner, and asked if he could pay CASH seeing their lack of technology meant his phone stored card did not work, and FA said NO. So he bad naturedly cancelled it all.

Clearly annoyed him, cost Virgin money, as profit on this stuff is massive, and held up the FA, and made them look like Hillbilly Air. to all within earshot.

I am not aware of any domestic airline that accepts cash in 2022? Every single person with a bank account has a card.
It was like this well before Covid - nothing new.

 

[33kft]

Every single person with a bank account has a card.

Semantically I think there are many problems with this view.

First, there is no obligation not guarantee that a transaction account will provide you with a card. I don't have a card for my ANZ account, because I declined to request one when I opened it, because I'll never need one for it (it simply holds money for direct deposit mortgage payments that I transfer electronically)

If I can have an account without a card I suspect that means others can or will also.

But the greater problem with this view is that it not only requires people to carry their card on them, it also requires it to be capable of card not present transactions.

This rules out anyone with a pure EFTPOS card rather than debit or credit card, certain gift cards and people who exclusively use android pay or apple pay.

It's a bit more impact than the 0% of people that is alluded to.

In terms of the impact to VA, do we know how they (or JQ) deal with cards which decline on the ground? I guess they follow up with the passenger as they have the seat number and pax details but it must be a time consuming process when it happens.

 

[ozstamps]

Agree. I have 2 older bank accounts with no card attached. This is a Bulletin Board - zero proof is needed here, to post anything as 'fact'

The reality exists that Virgin LOSE a ton of very profitable in-flight sales, as I experienced personally yesterday, due to this annoying chain dragging, about getting in flight Wi-Fi back and working again.

It is not rocket science - most carriers globally have it now. Most charge a fee - it clearly is a profit centre. Doing a 3.5 hour Virgin flight tomorrow - the amount of productive web work I'd get done in that time is worth a sizeable fee - to me, and many others.

 

[33kft]

Just to correct myself, it would not be a card not present transaction (which has similar limitations) but an offline transaction which is where the card info is batched up and sent later.

Either way, as far as I am aware, still not supported by EFTPOS-only (ie non debit or credit) cards, eg:

 

[simmomelb]

Semantically I think there are many problems with this view.

First, there is no obligation not guarantee that a transaction account will provide you with a card. I don't have a card for my ANZ account, because I declined to request one when I opened it, because I'll never need one for it (it simply holds money for direct deposit mortgage payments that I transfer electronically)

If I can have an account without a card I suspect that means others can or will also.

But the greater problem with this view is that it not only requires people to carry their card on them, it also requires it to be capable of card not present transactions.

This rules out anyone with a pure EFTPOS card rather than debit or credit card, certain gift cards and people who exclusively use android pay or apple pay.

It's a bit more impact than the 0% of people that is alluded to.

In terms of the impact to VA, do we know how they (or JQ) deal with cards which decline on the ground? I guess they follow up with the passenger as they have the seat number and pax details but it must be a time consuming process when it happens.

I am referring to a regular transactions account, just in case that wasn't clear (obviously many other types of accounts don't have a card).

Barely any bank offers a pure EFTPOS card now, ANZ is the only one I am aware of and only on request, they all, by default offer Visa or MC debit cards.

They don't have to do a thing if the funds fail, their system will automatically keep attempting to deduct the funds until cleared.

Not having cash removes a lot of admin, far more than using a card, messing around with change and slowing down the crew has much bigger advantages I would imagine, hence why all major airlines have moved away from accepting cash.

I remember well before Covid when VA used to accept cash and how slow the cart was for those paying with notes/coins.
I don't think they've accepted cash now for 4 ish years, if anyone else wants to chime in and confirm?

Of course, it's not 0% but it's undoubtedly a very small number of people carrying cash only and no card (Visa/MC/Amex) with them when flying.
None of the airlines would have made this move if this wasn't the case.

I agree with the above comments that not accepting phone-stored NFC cards is a little ridiculous.

 

[tdimdad]

This rules out anyone with a pure EFTPOS card rather than debit or credit card, certain gift cards and people who exclusively use android pay or apple pay.
...
In terms of the impact to VA, do we know how they (or JQ) deal with cards which decline on the ground? I guess they follow up with the passenger as they have the seat number and pax details but it must be a time consuming process when it happens.

Neo banks had their run and will re-emerge when the times are better for them again. They are digital only, i.e. as a customer you don't automatically get a physical card. Any organisation (airlines, car rental, etc) who insist on physical cards will end up excluding those customers.

Chasing for a payment afterwards based on your seat presumes that a buyer is on their allocated seat while the transaction takes place. I.e. this part would be easy to game and attempt to weasel out of a payment.

 

[eastwest101]

I am referring to a regular transactions account, just in case that wasn't clear (obviously many other types of accounts don't have a card).

Barely any bank offers a pure EFTPOS card now, ANZ is the only one I am aware of and only on request, they all, by default offer Visa or MC debit cards.

They don't have to do a thing if the funds fail, their system will automatically keep attempting to deduct the funds until cleared.

Not having cash removes a lot of admin, far more than using a card, messing around with change and slowing down the crew has much bigger advantages I would imagine, hence why all major airlines have moved away from accepting cash.

I remember well before Covid when VA used to accept cash and how slow the cart was for those paying with notes/coins.
I don't think they've accepted cash now for 4 ish years, if anyone else wants to chime in and confirm?

Of course, it's not 0% but it's undoubtedly a very small number of people carrying cash only and no card (Visa/MC/Amex) with them when flying.
None of the airlines would have made this move if this wasn't the case.

I agree with the above comments that not accepting phone-stored NFC cards is a little ridiculous.

Yeah its been about 3 or 4 years since VA accepted cash (maybe even longer?). Pretty sure Jetstar are still physical card only with transactions batched up and processed later? Rex still accept cash (and cash only - no physical cards) for alcoholic or non-alcoholic drinks on their Saab 340 flights, not sure if its the same with their mainline B738 services.

 

[Harrison_133]

Yeah its been about 3 or 4 years since VA accepted cash (maybe even longer?). Pretty sure Jetstar are still physical card only with transactions batched up and processed later? Rex still accept cash (and cash only - no physical cards) for alcoholic or non-alcoholic drinks on their Saab 340 flights, not sure if its the same with their mainline B738 services.

The Rex 737s do accept card payments now, initially they were cash only. Last time I flew with them, they were letting people use card payments via mobile devices, but their tech seemed different to what VA & JQ use.

Back to VA, I have seen some cabin crew let people try card payments on their phones. Sometimes they processed, other times they declined instantly. Probably easier to go with the physical card only rather than trying to chase people days after the flight.

 

[BAM1748]

It's not free on Qantas, really, it's built into the cost of their tickets, that's just marketing doing its job to convince you it's free.

Virgin could increase the cost of every ticket by, let's say $15, and then say it's "free" to all customers.

I'd rather a mostly user pay system so others aren't hit with the cost of running satellite WiFi internet on every plane, which isn't cheap.

Ultimately, whether it's Qantas or Virgin, the running costs have to be covered by customers somewhere.
I'd be happy pay $15 (a pure guess) for internet from Melbourne to Brisbane if I really can't go without it for the duration of the flight.

What do others think?

The risk Virgin run is by making 90% of the plane pay for it they won’t use and management under Bain will axe it completely pointing to the lack of take up. Or, they give to everyone and do build it into the price.

If I’m on a plane where I have to pay I’m more than happy to read a magazine.

I type this message from a QF flight 30,000 feet over Mildura with a very fast wifi, they even asked passengers not to make phone calls using it. And for the record, I paid for the ticket myself as a short break.

 

[bladeau1981]

Paying with phones is so ubiquitous now that not being able to use it is a problem for many people. I would estimate that on 90% of my flights there is at least 1 person within earshot that tries to pay with their phone but can't so cancel everything, and probably on half my flights there is someone who wants to use their phone because it is in their pocket but can't so they have to get up to fumble through their bag that is in the overhead locker, sometimes a few rows back or forward of them. I typically just eat in the lounge and don't bother to buy on board because it is to much of a hassle to try pull my wallet out of my pocket while cramped up in tiny seats with my knees in the person in front of me's back, if I could use my phone I probably would buy more products on board.

 

[justinbrett]

It's not free on Qantas, really, it's built into the cost of their tickets, that's just marketing doing its job to convince you it's free.

Virgin could increase the cost of every ticket by, let's say $15, and then say it's "free" to all customers.

I'd rather a mostly user pay system so others aren't hit with the cost of running satellite WiFi internet on every plane, which isn't cheap.

Ultimately, whether it's Qantas or Virgin, the running costs have to be covered by customers somewhere.
I'd be happy pay $15 (a pure guess) for internet from Melbourne to Brisbane if I really can't go without it for the duration of the flight.

What do others think?

There's absolutely no way QF is paying $15 per passenger to offer free wifi. Not even close.

It's economies of scale. Same reason the free wine they're handing out doesn't cost them $6pp.

 

[exceladdict]

There's absolutely no way QF is paying $15 per passenger to offer free wifi. Not even close.

It's economies of scale. Same reason the free wine they're handing out doesn't cost them $6pp.

And surely licensing costs for IFE have plummeted in tandem now that everyone's using their own netflix subscriptions

 

[Whatever]

Looks like VA Internet is back and much better. I flew over the weekend and was greeted by a new page when I connected to the Wifi in the aircraft that had Internet and links to the IFE. It was fast that's for sure.
I was on VA734 back to Melbourne.

 

[ozstamps]

Flying SYD-ADL tomorrow morning - is this fleet wide does anyone know?

 

[simmomelb]

Looks like VA Internet is back and much better. I flew over the weekend and was greeted by a new page when I connected to the Wifi in the aircraft that had Internet and links to the IFE. It was fast that's for sure.
I was on VA734 back to Melbourne.

Did you pay or are you Platinum/flew business?

I can't see anything about the cost on their website yet or a formal press release that it is now active.

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