Points Upgrade - Status Credits Question

[FlyingHigh]

I'm thinking about upgrading an international economy (H) ticket to business (J) on an upcoming leg.

Am wondering, if the upgrade is successful, do status credits for that flight reflect the original (H) ticket, or would it then reflect the new (J) ticket?

Thank you in advance.

 

[mannej]

Points upgrade = class originally purchased.

 

[FlyingHigh]

Cheers, Mannej.

I just read on the Qantas Terms & Conditions page which confirms this too.

16.1.6 (d) Points and Status Credits will be earned only for the class of travel originally purchased, rather than the upgraded class of travel

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Only way to get J SC, and yes, there are other colleagues on here who say its not an economic way of doing it, is to use P+P, ie, you book at the J fare and reduce the cost of the ticket by your QF FF balance.
That guarantees you will get J SC.
Also guarantees your J seat, paying H and wanting to upgrade is no guarantee you will get J.
It all depends on (apart from P+P) your tier with QF.

 

[love_the_life]

Only way to get J SC, and yes, there are other colleagues on here who say its not an economic way of doing it, is to use P+P, ie, you book at the J fare and reduce the cost of the ticket by your QF FF balance.
That guarantees you will get J SC.
Also guarantees your J seat, paying H and wanting to upgrade is no guarantee you will get J.
It all depends on (apart from P+P) your tier with QF.

Think I may have had too much red wine - I think I read this correctly as a suggestion for Points plus pay (or is it pay plus points?). In other words if you want J SC you need to book a J fare.
Please correct me AP if this is not what you meant.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Think I may have had too much red wine - I think I read this correctly as a suggestion for Points plus pay (or is it pay plus points?). In other words id you want J SC you need to book a J fare.
Pleas correct me AP if this is not what you meant.

He likes to be helpful....

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

I know a lot of you colleagues on here say P+P, points plus pay as on the QF website, or pay plus points (piss take), is not a good way of using points, 0.007 cents per point, but in my case, its the only way to do it to retain SG.
I used 5000 QF FF points to reduce a $750 J fare, MEL - SYD dom, to $715. $35. $35/5000 = 0.007, or 5000/$35 = 142.85.
With this, I get to feel what J on the 330 is like, get to access the J lounge at MEL dom, ... etc, etc, etc... most important, get J SC MEL - SYD meaning 40 instead of 10.
I pay a lot of bills with QCC, don't have a true credit card, don't fly on business, so have no other way of using the points.
If I go the way of the award, as the OP wants to do, I could buy an O class fare for $189, and use about 15000 QF FF points to upgrade, if there is a spot/slot, then I get J service, but O class SC.
$561 difference between $750 and $189, and using 15000 QF FF points as calculation, ratio goes down to 0.0374 and 26.73.
I know its not a lot of sense though, but in my case, P+P is the best, for others not so.

 

[Katy]

I know a lot of you colleagues on here say P+P, points plus pay as on the QF website, or pay plus points (piss take), is not a good way of using points, 0.007 cents per point, but in my case, its the only way to do it to retain SG.
I used 5000 QF FF points to reduce a $750 J fare, MEL - SYD dom, to $715. $35. $35/5000 = 0.007, or 5000/$35 = 142.85.
With this, I get to feel what J on the 330 is like, get to access the J lounge at MEL dom, ... etc, etc, etc... most important, get J SC MEL - SYD meaning 40 instead of 10.
I pay a lot of bills with QCC, don't have a true credit card, don't fly on business, so have no other way of using the points.
If I go the way of the award, as the OP wants to do, I could buy an O class fare for $189, and use about 15000 QF FF points to upgrade, if there is a spot/slot, then I get J service, but O class SC.
$561 difference between $750 and $189, and using 15000 QF FF points as calculation, ratio goes down to 0.0374 and 26.73.
I know its not a lot of sense though, but in my case, P+P is the best, for others not so.

Pooch, I'm not 100% clear on the maths up there but just wanted to mention a couple of things. Firstly, a MEL-SYD upgrade from discount economy is 10000 points, not 15000.

In your calculations above, you said the ratio goes down from 0.007c value per point to 0.0374 but 0.0374 is about 5.3x 0.007c (and, as mentioned anyway, the value is higher than that because it doesn't cost 15000 points to upgrade anyway)

Putting it another way, using your example above you can:

- Use 5000 points to save $35 or
- Use 10000 points to save $561 (twice as many points for 16x the savings)

Now do you see why most people don't think that P+P is a great use of points?

 

[love_the_life]

Poochie, I know that for you P+P is the way you choose to use your points and for you this works; I think others though see that the number of points required to make even a small cash difference in the fare is not worth it. I have played with the numbers a few times and have found that I would be outlaying a large number of points for a minor cash adjustment.

Hope you are busy planning another short jaunt somewhere to check out the planes and lounges

 

[opusman]

I used 5000 QF FF points to reduce a $750 J fare, MEL - SYD dom, to $715. $35. $35/5000 = 0.007, or 5000/$35 = 142.85.
With this, I get to feel what J on the 330 is like, get to access the J lounge at MEL dom, ... etc, etc, etc... most important, get J SC MEL - SYD meaning 40 instead of 10.

You know you could have just paid the $750 and kept the points, right?

 

[RichardMEL]

Think I may have had too much red wine - I think I read this correctly as a suggestion for Points plus pay (or is it pay plus points?). In other words if you want J SC you need to book a J fare.
Please correct me AP if this is not what you meant.

Actually sometimes wine can be helpful to deciper some posts on here

but yes, that's the idea. You want J (or F for that matter) SC's you need to purchase that class and if one doesn't want to use cash outright, then points plus pay is another way to do it - as demonstrated to many this represents a poor return on points investment, but everyone is different and has their own objectives and methods.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

P+P gives me the J SC on my dom runs, while a dom award upgrade from whY/fullY to J gives disc Y or full Y SC.
See how many SC to keep or retain SG... lots.

 

[RichardMEL]

P+P gives me the J SC on my dom runs, while a dom award upgrade from whY/fullY to J gives disc Y or full Y SC.
See how many SC to keep or retain SG... lots.

yes we know how it works and why YOU do it.

Everything is relative I guess. Given I earned personally over 800 SC's last month then Gold not so much, but that's me.

the point that most people are trying to make re P+P is that the $$$ spent to get those points in the first place to then spend them on points plus pay is not a great return on investment for many. granted domestic J fares are, in the main, very expensive and little value except perhaps on transcon flights and the odd nuggets of things like MEL-SYD-OOL the only reason to get one is for the SC, but there are far more economic ways to get SC's (and you well know this as a champion of EK trans-tasman runs).

Personally I usually book J fares domestic when there's a sale on and take advantage of that.

I've used P+P once, and it was not on a domestic fare. However as I wrote earlier each to their own.. if it works for you and you're happy more power to you. I do feel though that the majority of AFF members see it differently.

 

[FlyingHigh]

800 SC's in one month. that's a lot of SC's in one month.

 

[Mattg]

P+P gives me the J SC on my dom runs, while a dom award upgrade from whY/fullY to J gives disc Y or full Y SC.
See how many SC to keep or retain SG... lots.

I have a suggestion for you. Instead of booking 1x J fare outright with Points Plus Pay, why not book 2x Flex Y tickets with Points Plus Pay (or money) and then request a points upgrade (provided there is a reward seat available).

For a SYD-MEL flight, a Points Plus Pay J ticket is 103,000 points. (A Classic reward is only 16,000 points, or a sixth of the price, but I digress... I get the feeling that SC are more important to you anyway.) A Flex Y ticket from SYD-MEL is 54,000 points.

2x Flex Y tickets + 2x upgrades (5,000 points each way) is 118,000 points. You still get 40 status credits, and you get two Business class flights instead of one for an extra 15,000 points.

Alternatively, a Red-e-deal on SYD-MEL costs 18,500 points on the dates I looked. (It can get lower if there is a sale.) 4x Red-e-deals would cost 74,000 points. 4x upgrades would cost 40,000 points (10,000 each). That's 114,000 points but you still get your 40 SCs and you also get four flights in Business class!

Just a thought...

 

[RichardMEL]

800 SC's in one month. that's a lot of SC's in one month.

hardly compared to some. My point was that everyone has different metrics in the FF game and different ways to value both points, SC's and the like.

 

[RichardMEL]

I have a suggestion for you. Instead of booking 1x J fare outright with Points Plus Pay, why not book 2x Flex Y tickets with Points Plus Pay (or money) and then request a points upgrade (provided there is a reward seat available).

For a SYD-MEL flight, a Points Plus Pay J ticket is 103,000 points. (A Classic reward is only 16,000 points, or a sixth of the price, but I digress... I get the feeling that SC are more important to you anyway.) A Flex Y ticket from SYD-MEL is 54,000 points.

2x Flex Y tickets + 2x upgrades (5,000 points each way) is 118,000 points. You still get 40 status credits, and you get two Business class flights instead of one for an extra 15,000 points.

Alternatively, a Red-e-deal on SYD-MEL costs 18,500 points on the dates I looked. (It can get lower if there is a sale.) 4x Red-e-deals would cost 74,000 points. 4x upgrades would cost 40,000 points (10,000 each). That's 114,000 points but you still get your 40 SCs and you also get four flights in Business class!

Just a thought...

All of which makes sense, though AP was indeed discussing the best way (for him) to achieve max SC's for least (upfront) $$ spend - ie: points+pay. If he wanted a J seat sure just grab a classic award for far cheaper and be done (though the taxes and fines etc make domestic awards a PITA, might as well buy a Y fare and upgrade).

Personally though I wonder for folks that don't travel all that much, let's say low-medium level flyers, is the cost and effort involved to achieve status, such as Gold, worth it? I mean if you fly only enough to make Silver, is the extra effort worth it to make Gold? Sure, the benefits are significant, but the outlay is even more so. I mean for all those EK AKL runs or P+P tickets etc one could prob invest in a QC membership and be ahead. However that's a totally different argument

 

[Anna]

For a SYD-MEL flight, a Points Plus Pay J ticket is 103,000 points.

I'm confused - doesn't P+P depend on how many points you want to use? Unlike ASA which has a fixed points price, generally greatly exceeding the classic award price.

 

[RichardMEL]

Good point Ana - that does look like the (new) ASA price, which is quite different to a P+P price.

if anyone actually fronts up with 100k points for a MEL-SYD flight I'd fall off my chair.

 

[Mattg]

I'm confused - doesn't P+P depend on how many points you want to use? Unlike ASA which has a fixed points price, generally greatly exceeding the classic award price.

Indeed. The amount I quoted would be if the full fare was paid for with points.

All of which makes sense, though AP was indeed discussing the best way (for him) to achieve max SC's for least (upfront) $$ spend - ie: points+pay. If he wanted a J seat sure just grab a classic award for far cheaper and be done (though the taxes and fines etc make domestic awards a PITA, might as well buy a Y fare and upgrade).

Personally though I wonder for folks that don't travel all that much, let's say low-medium level flyers, is the cost and effort involved to achieve status, such as Gold, worth it? I mean if you fly only enough to make Silver, is the extra effort worth it to make Gold? Sure, the benefits are significant, but the outlay is even more so. I mean for all those EK AKL runs or P+P tickets etc one could prob invest in a QC membership and be ahead. However that's a totally different argument

My point is that he could actually earn the same number of status credits, but do 4 times as many business class flights for an extra 11,000 points above the cost of a single J seat from SYD-MEL using P + P.