Overbooked MNL-SYD

[ShrinkWrapped]

Been reading about how popular mnl-syd seems to be for qantas these days and finding myself in an interesting situation coming up. Historically do qantas have a tendency to overbook?

Flying qf20 in Y on 9th October and it's completely zeroed out J0Y0 and the next flight on the 10th also J0Y0. I can't actually pull up the flights on the qf website anymore too!

In previous experiences, normally if denied boarding, you'd be on the next flight, but how would it work in this situation?

Obvious my SG points upgrade ain't going to happen haha!

 

[Mrmaxwell]

If you have a confirmed booking you should be ok.

Due to the high number of corporates now flying this route you'll find a few changes will happen right up until the departure time.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Been reading about how popular mnl-syd seems to be for qantas these days and finding myself in an interesting situation coming up. Historically do qantas have a tendency to overbook?

Flying qf20 in Y on 9th October and it's completely zeroed out J0Y0 and the next flight on the 10th also J0Y0. I can't actually pull up the flights on the qf website anymore too!

In previous experiences, normally if denied boarding, you'd be on the next flight, but how would it work in this situation?

Obvious my SG points upgrade ain't going to happen haha!

I would arrive at the airport with plenty of time up your sleeve!

Qantas' policy for flights they proactively choose to overbook is that they will only accommodate you on the next available service operated by Qantas.

This means that they can overbook and leave you pretty much stranded until not just the next flight, but until the next 'available' flight on which they have a spare seat.

Their policy on overbooking is in their Customer Charter:

Overbooked Flights
We take the utmost care in managing each flight, but on rare occasions a flight may be overbooked and we may need to seek a volunteer to change to another flight. In the unlikely event that there are no volunteers, we may need to ask a passenger to change to another flight. If this happens to you, and you arrived on time for your confirmed flight with all required documentation, we will rebook you on the next available flight on our services at no additional cost to you. Alternatively, if you no longer wish to travel, we will refund your fare.

 

[ShrinkWrapped]

Oh great, thrilling. Good thing I've left a 4.5 hour connection to get from T3 to the pit that is T1.

 

[Mattg]

I imagine that it would be very rare indeed for someone to be forced off an overbooked flight. Especially if you're SG. I personally wouldn't be too worried.

If it is overbooked, they will most likely ask for volunteers among the pax with no status - and offer some sort of compensation/incentive (e.g. free hotel accommodation, some money and possibly a free upgrade on the next available flight). Or, if there are any spare J seats some may be upgraded.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I imagine that it would be very rare indeed for someone to be forced off an overbooked flight. Especially if you're SG. I personally wouldn't be too worried.

If it is overbooked, they will most likely ask for volunteers among the pax with no status - and offer some sort of compensation/incentive (e.g. free hotel accommodation, some money and possibly a free upgrade on the next available flight). Or, if there are any spare J seats some may be upgraded.

We know from other threads that unfortunately status doesn't mean much, if anything. We had the report of overbooking in business class and Qantas golds were denied fully paid cash seats: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ram/downgraded-from-business-class-63686.html

Very little assistance was afforded by Qantas at the airport by the sounds of it in that thread.

 

[Mattg]

We know from other threads that unfortunately status doesn't mean much, if anything. We had the report of overbooking in business class and Qantas golds were denied fully paid cash seats: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ram/downgraded-from-business-class-63686.html

Very little assistance was afforded by Qantas at the airport by the sounds of it in that thread.

I'm not suggesting it never happens, but it would surely not be common for a passenger with status to be forcibly removed from an overbooked flight.

I would imagine that they would first ask for volunteers and IME they will generally only ask non-status pax. Those who do agree are generally well-compensated.

I am aware of the thread linked and agree that that was poor, but this is not common. IMHO I don't think it's necessary for the OP to be worried. It would have to be quite an extreme case.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not suggesting it never happens, but it would surely not be common for a passenger with status to be forcibly removed from an overbooked flight.

I would imagine that they would first ask for volunteers and IME they will generally only ask non-status pax. Those who do agree are generally well-compensated.

I am aware of the thread linked and agree that that was poor, but this is not common. IMHO I don't think it's necessary for the OP to be worried. It would have to be quite an extreme case.

We know that QF golds get bumped. We know that QF assistance in LAX was possibly less than stellar, so we don't know what it will be like in MNL. We know that adequate compensation can be a fight. We know that even trying to get an explanation of how refunds/compensation are calculated has proved very difficult (not forthcoming).

It only needs to happen to you once. Whether it does/doesn't happen the majority of times is perhaps secondary

 

[whughes3]

I personally can recall one occasion, many years ago, when on checking in for QF20 I was told that J was overbooked, and offered a cash refund if I wanted to "downgrade" to Y (no prizes for guessing my response!). So it can happen, though it is certainly very rare IME; this instance was at least 10 years ago, possibly more.

 

[Shan Man]

If it is over booked, as them to put you onto another flight via somewhere to get home? The CX lounges in HKG are pretty nice

 

[N860CR]

If it is over booked, as them to put you onto another flight via somewhere to get home? The CX lounges in HKG are pretty nice

As bad as it is, it seems their own policy says they don't have to. This is why we need regulation, as airlines have simply taken terms and conditions too far.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

As bad as it is, it seems their own policy says they don't have to. This is why we need regulation, as airlines have simply taken terms and conditions too far.

Actually the new unfair contracting provisions of the Competion and Consumer Act could be used in this situation. They are designed for situations in which consumers are forced to sign up to onerous standard terms and conditions with no opportunity to negotiate. It will be interesting to see if there are any test cases involving airlines in the near future.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Actually the new unfair contracting provisions of the Competion and Consumer Act could be used in this situation. They are designed for situations in which consumers are forced to sign up to onerous standard terms and conditions with no opportunity to negotiate. It will be interesting to see if there are any test cases involving airlines in the near future.

The ACCC conducted a review in to various service providers and standard form contracts... airlines were one of the groups examined. A report was released by the ACCC in 2013 which said 79% of 'problem terms' had been resolved or deleted. The overbooking clause is still there.

Whether or not the ACCC moves to some sort of enforcement for the remaining 21% of 'problem' clauses... or whether even the overbooking clause was considered 'problematic' remains to be seen.

I can't seem to find any progress since the 2013 report.

Report link here (pdf): https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Unfair Contract Terms - Industry Report.pdf

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I'm not sure what enforcement action the ACCC could take.

I don't think it can even determine which terms are unfair, let alone compel businesses to remove or amend them.
Hence the cooperative approach it undertook where it asked businesses to remove clauses it viewed as "of concern". Some did, some refused.

If a consumer is affected by a clause they can ask a court to determine that it would be unfair to allow the business to enforce it in that case.
Obviously if they were succesful then any sensible business would look at deleting or amending the relevant term.
However, I'm not sure even a court could order a business to amend its contract - but I could be wrong.
The Competition and Consumer Act gives courts much wider powers and more discretion as to remedies than they have in almost any other area of law.
So one can always be surprised.

That's why I look forward to the first test case against an airline for such a term.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

However, I'm not sure even a court could order a business to amend its contract - but I could be wrong.

All the court will find is that a particular clause is unenforceable, and the rest of the contract will stand as is (so far as it is possible)

 

[hummel]

I'm currently in MNL and going home tomorrow. I only booked my flight 2 days ago but to give you an idea... QF MNL-SYD-MEL was $1700 in Y or $3500 in J One-way and it said only 5 or less seats available in both classes.

In that case I booked MH J for $1800... now I just need to work out who to credit to!

Being only my 2nd visit to MNL.. what is the major driver for QF? I'm here for QA inspection so not exposed to the corporate side of things.

 

[N860CR]

I'm currently in MNL and going home tomorrow. I only booked my flight 2 days ago but to give you an idea... QF MNL-SYD-MEL was $1700 in Y or $3500 in J One-way and it said only 5 or less seats available in both classes.

In that case I booked MH J for $1800... now I just need to work out who to credit to!

Being only my 2nd visit to MNL.. what is the major driver for QF? I'm here for QA inspection so not exposed to the corporate side of things.

Pick up the phone and call basically any major corporation. Whoever answers the phone will answer your question

 

[ShrinkWrapped]

flight was overbooked by 2 in Y in the end. The economy line for check-in was stupidly long @ 4 hours prior to check in, but luckily the business line was empty.
Full flight in Y and J in the end.
I must say, as with the other manila posts, Ninoy Aquino Terminal 1 is a bit like a dungeon and the lounge like a glorified cupboard........

 

[Mattg]

flight was overbooked by 2 in Y in the end. The economy line for check-in was stupidly long @ 4 hours prior to check in, but luckily the business line was empty.
Full flight in Y and J in the end.
I must say, as with the other manila posts, Ninoy Aquino Terminal 1 is a bit like a dungeon and the lounge like a glorified cupboard........

Any idea what happened to the 2 people that didn't have a seat on QF20?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Any idea what happened to the 2 people that didn't have a seat on QF20?

Oh, lemme guess... accommodated on PR or SQ in business class?