If I were AJ...

[Oliverhrcm]

After recent experiences of the flying bus service that is JQ and the known brilliance of DOM QF, why doesn't the Qantas Group ditch JQ, make QF more efficient / lower cost (to a degree) and allow QF to be the big boy in town again? In the Aus airline scene today it seems QF is struggling (while still strong) to hold on to the DOM market, line in the sand acknowledged. When you look at flights, Tiger is cheap, Virgin is cheap, JetStar is cheap, Qantas is more expensive – and at the end of the day flying is a service and the general population sees A to B as A to B.

Now, no one wants to see a strong flying Kangaroo as much as I do. As an 18 year old, I intend to be flying on QF for many years to come, so why not make it a big player again?

Very interested in your thoughts.

 

[Mattg]

I think that the whole point of JQ was to provide a low-cost competitor to DJ back when it was a LCC. It's probably not a good idea for QF to lower costs because they want to position themselves as a premium airline and JQ as a cheaper alternative (ignoring the fact that ancillary charges are often not cheap). Virgin is quite comparable to QF these days in terms of price and service. I very much support QF and like you, want to see them do well for many more years. IMHO QF should not cut costs, but remain a good, premium airline. They will need to do this if they are to compete with Virgin. With QF, most people will pay a little more for good service.

JQ has its place, but that place is serving a different market.

 

[TonyHancock]

I'm not sure DJ is cheap these days.

 

[leemin]

I'm not sure DJ is cheap these days.

I'd agree with that. I think the 'J* market' now only fly DJ when they have a sale on; prices have definitely gone up, placing DJ on the dearer side of the J* and QF price gap median*

*yes, I just made my own term up

 

[Boris spatsky]

QF cannot reduce it's high cost of wages due to the EBA that the majority of tech crew and cabin crew are on from the 90s. They started Jetstar so that they could lower the conditions and benefits, and pay them all less. QF is doomed IMHO, at least the international arm anyway.

 

[moa999]

The various Qantas unions might have something to say about your plan.

And I agree, Virgin is not cheap, indeed last minute it is often more expensive than Qantas.
That said Tiger also knows how to charge last minute.

 

[harvyk]

What makes QF anything other than a big player in the AU dom market (or even the AU int market)? Yes they are losing share to VA, but that is to be expected considering that they basically had a good many years where AN no longer existed, and DJ was basically an LCC. Now DJ are turning into VA, QF has had the first real competition since the AN days. However just like before where there was QF and AN, these days there is QF and VA, and just like in the QF / AN days, some months QF will be in front and others VA will be in front.

Whilst I am the first to agree JQ is an orange cancer which is been given things on a silver platter by QF (how many other airlines are simply handed existing routes and then have the "competitor" move out of the way?) it does still serve a market which QF is not really wanting to serve anymore.

 

[browski]

why doesn't the Qantas Group ditch JQ

When you have a biological son and an adopted son, it's easier to give toughlove to the adopted one.

 

[drewbles]

The market is clearly moving towards 2 x LCC's and 2 x FSC (Full Service Carriers).

Virgin has made it perfectly clear it no longer has any desire to be seen, or function as, a LCC. It does however have the benefit of having staff agreements in place from LCC days, meaning they don't need to re-work things to reduce their cost base.

QF started JQ as opposition to DJ yes. As others have mentioned, it also quite cleanly allowed them to lower their cost base and as such, pay staff less as well.

QF can't just reduce their cost base for mainline and international. It's just not going to happen with the unions. The only way they can do this is by employing new staff on lesser contracts (like the UK crew that are paid next to nothing compared to legacy AU based staff) and this takes a long time to do.

Tiger, Jetstar and Virgin all have low cost bases. QF does not.

If JB plays his cards right, Virgin are going to inflict some serious damage on QF in the coming decade IMHO.

 

[NTflyer]

When Virgin stop charging extra for baggage, inflight entertainment and food/drink I would then consider them a full service airline. At the moment I believe they are closer to a LCC than a full service airline. For you guys who fly in business it might be different but flying in Y there is still a big difference IMO

 

[drewbles]

When Virgin stop charging extra for baggage, inflight entertainment and food/drink I would then consider them a full service airline. At the moment I believe they are closer to a LCC than a full service airline. For you guys who fly in business it might be different but flying in Y there is still a big difference IMO

It's changing slowly. They have introduced Capital Connect, and they are rolling out complimentary F&B slowly

I do agree, but it'll happen (and QF charge for extra bags these days, DJ just have a charge on their cheapest fares non?).

 

[mannej]

It's changing slowly. They have introduced Capital Connect, and they are rolling out complimentary F&B slowly

I do agree, but it'll happen (and QF charge for extra bags these days, DJ just have a charge on their cheapest fares non?).

Virgin use the piece system as well (or are transitioning into it).

New Checked Baggage Policy | Virgin Australia

 

[medhead]

When Virgin stop charging extra for baggage, inflight entertainment and food/drink I would then consider them a full service airline. At the moment I believe they are closer to a LCC than a full service airline. For you guys who fly in business it might be different but flying in Y there is still a big difference IMO

Been a while since you flew Virgin then. IFE is mostly free these days if available. They provide drinks for free these days. Only the saver fares have to pay for food. I also guess you mean stop charging for baggage, rather than extra baggage, as even Qantas charge for extra baggage these days.

 

[mannej]

Been a while since you flew Virgin then. IFE is mostly free these days if available. They provide drinks for free these days. Only the saver fares have to pay for food. I also guess you mean stop charging for baggage, rather than extra baggage, as even Qantas charge for extra baggage these days.

Agreed, bean counters love piece based baggage systems these days!

I guess when you get specials of $99 SYD-PER, one shouldn't complain about forking out an extra $10-12 for F&B should they?

 

[Simo]

We are seeing DJ transition itself to a full service carrier with some LCC options.

 

[drewbles]

We are seeing DJ transition itself to a full service carrier with some LCC options.

Just like a lot of FSC's are transitioning to be more LCC (Thinks US carriers, even NZ are now).

 

[ash.1111]

Entertainment is free bar Digeplayers on the long sectors.

 

[JohnK]

Is this thread about Alan Joyce or VA?

If I were Alan Joyce I would resign and allow someone who knows how to run an airline take over for the good of Qantas and it's customers.

Virgin has made it perfectly clear it no longer has any desire to be seen, or function as, a LCC. It does however have the benefit of having staff agreements in place from LCC days, meaning they don't need to re-work things to reduce their cost base.

Interesting comment.

They do not want to be seen as a LCC yet function exactly like a LCC with the amateurism on display clearly for all to see.

 

[TonyHancock]

Is this thread about Alan Joyce or VA?

If I were Alan Joyce I would resign and allow someone who knows how to run an airline take over for the good of Qantas and it's customers.


Interesting comment.

They do not want to be seen as a LCC yet function exactly like a LCC with the amateurism on display clearly for all to see.

We have very different experiences with DJ. TBH on domestic flights I find QF's performance to be that of a disinterested amateur. No prizes for guessing which part of the QF offering is the most amateur of all. p)

 

[Sprucegoose]

We are seeing DJ transition itself to a full service carrier with some LCC options.

The legacy from LCCC days is the lack of entertainment hardware.