Garuda and the so called safety slurs regarding its safety and its pilots

[adampenrith]

As someone who flys this airline frequently and have done so for the last 15 years, I get really cranky when people who might not have flown, but only read comments in forums or stuff in the media, who think they can make an informed decision about something they appear to know nothing about.

If you choose not to fly Garuda because you percieve their safety to not be good enough, thats your democratic decision, and maybe something your should keep to yourself.

I happen to be aware of how the Garuda pilots are trained, and where they do their regular stimulation sessions.

Now Garuda has their pilots sent to Hong Kong for their stimulator sessions, at guess what airline - **Cathay Pacific **

So if you are going to continue to rubbish Garuda for the perception that their pilots are poorly trained - your comments also reflect the standards of Cathay Pacific.

Now I have never flown Cathay Pacific, but I understand that CX is an airline that most people hold in very high regard. The cabin service on CX is very good, so maybe the pilots are too.

Oddly enough GA has fantastic cabin service, I believe the pilots are also very well trained and operate safely, but while lots of people want to bag out this airline, great - it means there will be less bums on its seats and cheaper prices for me.

Rant over

 

[Deleted member]

I flew them once. .......... Eventually.
I should have learned from my brothers experience. On time departure wasn't a high priority. But I only have two experiences to report on, both poor.

 

[russ]

Stimulator sessions?!

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Have booked GA J MEL-DPS/DPS-MEL Dec 23/Jan 2 - really looking forward to it - $1,700 - never again will I do the JQ overnighter in Y.

 

[RooFlyer]

Interesting OP. I'm curious as to what brought it about.

 

[Cynicor]

Interesting OP. I'm curious as to what brought it about.

Guerrilla marketing. ;p

 

[harvyk]

Whilst no doubt Garuda does have it's detractors, a big part of their problem isn't so much their airline itself, but more a reflection on Indonesia's lax airline safety standards. That said, GA one of 3 airlines which have managed to get themselves off the EU banned list.

Interesting comment about CX sims and that if you criticize GA you're in turn criticizing CX. Just because GA is renting time on CX's sims, doesn't mean that the GA pilots are receiving the same level of training as CX, it also doesn't mean that GA's procedures are at CX standard (or vice versa). All it means is that GA is using CX infrastructure to train their pilots.

Another interesting comment about the fact that the service on an airline has anything to do with pilot training. You can get poorly trained pilots on an airline with excellent customer service, you can get excellent pilots on an airline with poor customer service.

I'd also like to know why this out of the blue thread appeared since if it is a response to a member here, it's not obvious to whom

 

[bam71]

Love Garuda. Their J product is excellent. We've done numerous SYD DPS returns and did a Syd CGK AMS return with them two years ago. Were very impressed.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Interesting comment about CX sims and that if you criticize GA you're in turn criticizing CX. Just because GA is renting time on CX's sims, doesn't mean that the GA pilots are receiving the same level of training as CX, it also doesn't mean that GA's procedures are at CX standard (or vice versa). All it means is that GA is using CX infrastructure to train their pilots.

This is the key harvyk.

Training in the sim doesn't necessarily change the culture of the airline. It also doesn't mean that GA and CX have exactly the same operations manuals, or follow the exact same procedures for different events. The sim probably replicates the procedures and company guidelines GA has in place... not those of CX.

Unless the OP is suggesting that CX is 'signing-off' on GA's pilot abilities. That would in turn open a legal minefield!

That being said... I have been flying GA for 40 years. I don't particularly have an issue with their safety, other than to recognise that flying around Asia, with its sometimes extreme weather, can be challenging.

Their service in premium cabins has always been excellent. Agree with Cruiser Elite... GA can be really good value for a good product. There have even been times when GA business class is cheaper than JQ economy (like during school holiday peak periods).

I think the OP has a point though, although not necessarily for the reasons they point out. Their accident record is not actually that bad if you do a bit of analysis. Their last major incident was 2007. Taking out domestic incidents, their international record is pretty good (last one being Fukuoka in 1996, with three fatalities, and before that, 1968).

 

[dajop]

Whilst no doubt Garuda does have it's detractors, a big part of their problem isn't so much their airline itself, but more a reflection on Indonesia's lax airline safety standards. That said, GA one of 3 airlines which have managed to get themselves off the EU banned list.

Flying domestically within Indonesia I'd much rather fly with Garuda than any other Indonesian carrier, as one expects they must be doing something right with their approach to safety to get off the EU list.

Of course it is impossible for passenger to judge, as service standards are not necessarily reflective of safety standards. But from the small number of safety measures passengers see (seatbelt checks, emergency exit row briefings, pre-take off safety briefings, stowing of "stray" hand luggage etc) cabin safety standards were rigourously enforced on my four GA flights a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Hvr]

Stimulator sessions?!

Ensures a happy ending.

 

[yohy?!]

I wouldnt get too excited over pilots training in CX sims in HK, the government civil aviation body is notoriously in CX's pocket

 

[Captain hum]

15 years ago, I never thought I'd ever book with Garuda given their shabby safety record. However, they have worked hard to turn things around. We flew with them earlier this year. We did 4 domestic flights , all of which were excellent and only one was delayed (by 30 minutes). Service was good and planes were in good condition. Indeed I am very disappointed that they have cut their BNE-DPS service, leaving VA (on their 737) as our only option to DPS now.
I certainly wouldn't consider any other carrier within Indonesia..

 

[moa999]

Certainly for a number of years the GA J product on the 330 SYD-CGK has been miles ahead of QF - fully flat bed, immigration on board, even good food (albeit the wine list was poor).

This will obviously change when QF finishes its Business Suite rollout

 

[Franky]

moa999 mentioned having immigration onboard, which may not sound like much, but we recently saw evidence of how good a feature that is. We had to attend a family wedding in Bali, and we in Perth flew up under duress on AirAsia. Other rellies from Sydney flew Jetstar or Virgin, and one couple who flew Garuda. They had immigration on their flight, who did the entire immigration/customs process in the air. The bonus was, on landing in Bali, all passengers on that flight were shepherded past the waiting masses at immigration and customs and straight out to their baggage carousel. Guess who of the parties at the wedding were the most happy?

 

[Nizar]

Their F product actually looks world beating

 

[straitman]

Ensures a happy ending.

I wish. :shock:

Watching this thread from a pilots perspective but I'm still thinking of the best way to answer it.

It's many years since I've had the need to fly Garuda and they are still not high on my list. Having said that it is true to say they have lifted their game significantly. They are however, IMHO, still not to the standard of many others. As someone mentioned 'culture' is still the issue in the coughpit of many asian carriers including GA.

Going back to post #1 I have been to Sim training where there have been many and varied operators. Just because everyone reached the minimum standard was no recommendation as to their overall abilities. The CRM sessions were the real tell tale ones where a few simply rattled of the 'expected' answers rather than going through the though processes to actually find a better outcome.

For those reasons and the other that people have mentioned I don't believe that GA doing their trying in the CX sims has any real relevance.

As a few have pointed out the cabin standards and the flying standards are often totally unrelated.

Would I fly Garuda. Yes but there are a whole bunch of airlines higher up my list.

(Last time I flew them my seat belt didn't work and then the tray table fell apart when lowered. :shock:

 

[andmiz]

Now Garuda has their pilots sent to Hong Kong for their stimulator sessions, at guess what airline - **Cathay Pacific **

As a CX Sim centre regular...don't fall under the impression that CX is undertaking the training for GA. Cathay Pacific does not train Garuda pilots...however they may well use simulators provided by a third-party training organisation (CAE if the OP is correct), housed at Cathay or Dragonair facilities.

Being a product of CX, I can attest that CX training is second to none.

 

[TomVexille]

Their F product actually looks world beating

In the reviews I've seen it really does.