Bureaucratic Madness

[DaveB]

Apologies if overlapping with old threads but given the week I have had, please give me some latitude as this is my chance to vent.

1. Our state government is the process of getting rid of a lot of NSW councils by amalgamations. I don't have a problem with that in theory, however the trouble is our 'merger' involves ripping apart my community into two to join up with three much smaller Sydney councils to form two councils no larger than our current size. Two separate enquiries are being held for the two councils proposed meaning to speak at the only public hearings being held the same day, I had to attend Tuesday from 1pm to 5pm followed by the other, a 30km trip via home from 7pm to 10pm.
2. Yesterday, I went to the local RMS branch in an attempt to replace one of our EToll tags which had not worked since June last year. The driver had joined the company at the same time the tag stopped working and had just thought the new style tags mustn't beep. The RMS officer checked her database and advised it was not a battery issue giving the tag a shake to check for anything loose. I confirmed the tag was always on the windscreen, we don't swap tags and with over 20 tags on our account, had a reasonably good idea how to correctly fix tags on windscreens. The RMS Officer then phoned up the EToll office and went over the same rigmarole with their officer, also confirming the tag looked brand new with no signs of damage or tampering. This unfortunately was insufficient evidence for the EToll officer being advised I would need to take the tag back, take a photo of the tag back on the windscreen and if/when the tag doesn't work again, bring the tag back with the supporting evidence to have the tag replaced.
3. Whilst waiting to hear my fate from the EToll lady, I felt so sorry for the elderly lady being 'served' at the adjoining counter who was attempting to transfer her licence from Victoria to NSW. She was not going to accept being advised her current passport was insufficient and she would also need to bring in her marriage certificate.

Come to think of it, I am more worried that I didn't lose it this week.

Again my apologies if another thread exists but feel a vent is handy in having to deal with bureaucrats and red tape.

 

[eastwest101]

Here's a good one, T-Shirt cannon banned from Basketball games (courtesy from todays Townsville Bulletin):

THE fun police have infiltrated The Swamp, demanding the Townsville Crocodiles hand over their popular T-shirt cannon.
Officers from the Queensland Police Service’s weapons licensing branch last week emailed the Crocodiles, threatening the club with prosecution if the “weapon” was not surrendered.

If true, I submit that the officers from QLD weapon licencing branch need to get a life.

 

[BAM1748]

Apologies if overlapping with old threads but given the week I have had, please give me some latitude as this is my chance to vent.

1. Our state government is the process of getting rid of a lot of NSW councils by amalgamations. I don't have a problem with that in theory, however the trouble is our 'merger' involves ripping apart my community into two to join up with three much smaller Sydney councils to form two councils no larger than our current size. Two separate enquiries are being held for the two councils proposed meaning to speak at the only public hearings being held the same day, I had to attend Tuesday from 1pm to 5pm followed by the other, a 30km trip via home from 7pm to 10pm.
2. Yesterday, I went to the local RMS branch in an attempt to replace one of our EToll tags which had not worked since June last year. The driver had joined the company at the same time the tag stopped working and had just thought the new style tags mustn't beep. The RMS officer checked her database and advised it was not a battery issue giving the tag a shake to check for anything loose. I confirmed the tag was always on the windscreen, we don't swap tags and with over 20 tags on our account, had a reasonably good idea how to correctly fix tags on windscreens. The RMS Officer then phoned up the EToll office and went over the same rigmarole with their officer, also confirming the tag looked brand new with no signs of damage or tampering. This unfortunately was insufficient evidence for the EToll officer being advised I would need to take the tag back, take a photo of the tag back on the windscreen and if/when the tag doesn't work again, bring the tag back with the supporting evidence to have the tag replaced.
3. Whilst waiting to hear my fate from the EToll lady, I felt so sorry for the elderly lady being 'served' at the adjoining counter who was attempting to transfer her licence from Victoria to NSW. She was not going to accept being advised her current passport was insufficient and she would also need to bring in her marriage certificate.

Come to think of it, I am more worried that I didn't lose it this week.

Again my apologies if another thread exists but feel a vent is handy in having to deal with bureaucrats and red tape.

Just a couple of comment, take them as you will no offence intended.

Point 1. You don't have a problem persay but of course you own particular council merger shouldn't happen. Isn't that a NIMBY.
Point 2. Isn't it the rego plate is registered with the tag provider there is no issue, you keep driving and nothing required. (It is with my tag company anyway, as long as they have the plate number it goes on my bill regardless of tag)
Point 3. That is a valid, I had to replace a lost license once and my passport and birth certificate were not deemed adequate. I asked for two officers names so I could make a complaint and they suddenly said they would do it this time only.

Matt

 

[medhead]

My best one was the NSW traffic people - I assume RMS now. When moving to NSW, I went to surrender the number plates for the car. The RMS person refused to give me a receipt for the old number plates. Apparently I didn't need it. Apparently they needed to keep the receipt to prove to themselves that they had collected the number plates in case they ever had to check if they had collected the number plates. Or something like that.

 

[RooFlyer]

Current situation.

About 3 weeks ago, the state 'water authority' declared Stage 1 water restrictions in my and other local towns - we've had a very dry spring/summer and the dams were getting a bit low. Fair enough.

Last week, we had a mega rain event over about 3 days - falls of 6" to 8" across the catchment. All dams full, all dams still overflowing 5 days after.

With school holidays over, these holiday towns now have maybe 1/2 the people of 3 weeks ago. Water tanks are full, ground is sodden no not much inclination to water anything.

Water authority on the radio this morning saying having assessed the situation, water restrictions will remain, and in his opinion, will remain for 8 more weeks.

The actual restrictions make no difference to anyone now - its just the petty bureaucracy at work.

 

[Denali]

About 25yrs ago we got a jury duty letter for my dad, who died the prior April.

Went to the court house, provided copy of death certificate, filled out a form and left.

A couple of months later, get another jury duty letter in the mail for my dad.

Went to the court house, explained this was the 2nd time and he was dead and was told, "Get him to sign this form".

 

[ric_melb]

It seems you share my frustration with the NSW bureaucracy! Even though I am from Victoria.
NSW and interstate Seniors have been able to buy a paper Pensioners Excursion ticket to travel on NSW public transport. This has been very convenient, and inexpensive.
With the introduction of the Opal Card a Gold Opal Card became available, but only to NSW Seniors. In addition you had to apply by mail for this card, you couldn't buy at an outlet.
Then an announcement was made during 2015 that Pensioners Excursion tickets would no longer be sold from January 2016. So what provisions were made for Interstate Seniors?
None - until finally late in 2015 NSW proudly announced that Interstate Seniors could apply for a Gold Opal Card.
But imagine the conditions!!

You must apply in advance of travel by mail sending in photocopies front and back of your Interstate Seniors Card. Then they will send you an Interstate Seniors Gold Card. All free of charge!
BUT the Interstate Gold Card is only valid for 60 days!!
So before it expires and you wish to keep using a Gold Card you have to apply for a new one.
So if you visit Sydney often you'd be applying for a new Gold Card every 60 days! and dealing with balance transfers etc.

It is just so stupid its unbelievable.

Has anyone else struck this issue, and decided on a course of action?

 

[Renato1]

For all three cases that you mention - I am glad I live in Victoria.
Council mergers - they just merged us into huge councils.

I assume you are talking about toll tags - I just emailed Eastlink that my tag didn't work, and a new one showed up in the mail.

Licences - I remember telling them at their service desk that I didn't like my birth certificate name on my licence, and that I wanted to use the name I go by. I had a bit of an argument as to whether a deed poll was required (it wasn't the case then in Victoria), but they then added my assumed name to my licence in addition, and made the original name into an initial for me. No problems.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Happy Dude]

I break three laws every single time I get in the car.

A couple of years ago I had lasik surgery. No longer needing spectacles, I called Vicroads to get the "S" removed from my licence. I was told that I'd need to take an eye test and I'd need to bring a letter from the surgeon. I said that it was strange I didn't have to produce a letter from my optometrist when I failed the eye test. S remains on licence.

Ive been driving in QLD and now the ACT since 2009 on VIC plates and licence because it's an enormous PPITA to get them changed over. The extra P is for pointless.

 

[Happy Dude]

For all three cases that you mention - I am glad I live in Victoria.
Council mergers - they just merged us into huge councils.

I assume you are talking about toll tags - I just emailed Eastlink that my tag didn't work, and a new one showed up in the mail.

Licences - I remember telling them at their service desk that I didn't like my birth certificate name on my licence, and that I wanted to use the name I go by. I had a bit of an argument as to whether a deed poll was required (it wasn't the case then in Victoria), but they then added my assumed name to my licence in addition, and made the original name into an initial for me. No problems.
Cheers,
Renato

Isn't there a risk that you could seek to, say, claim to be someone other than Renato1? In an insurance matter perhaps?

 

[JohnK]

Ive been driving in QLD and now the ACT since 2009 on VIC plates and licence because it's an enormous PPITA to get them changed over. The extra P is for pointless.

A friend was up here in Quuensland for ~4 years and it was much easier to duck down to Tweed Heads on a Saturday to get the pink slip once a year than change over the registration. He is back in Sydney now.

 

[docjames]

Has anyone else struck this issue, and decided on a course of action?

Don't visit Sydney??

 

[clazman]

Going to the Wildcats game tonight in Perth, they have two multiple barrels tshirt guns and about six individual tshirt guns. I wonder if the fun police will stop them

 

[alieninperth]

It's Perth, if the fun police don't manage to stop it, they'll give it a red hot go.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Current situation.

About 3 weeks ago, the state 'water authority' declared Stage 1 water restrictions in my and other local towns - we've had a very dry spring/summer and the dams were getting a bit low. Fair enough.

Last week, we had a mega rain event over about 3 days - falls of 6" to 8" across the catchment. All dams full, all dams still overflowing 5 days after.

With school holidays over, these holiday towns now have maybe 1/2 the people of 3 weeks ago. Water tanks are full, ground is sodden no not much inclination to water anything.

Water authority on the radio this morning saying having assessed the situation, water restrictions will remain, and in his opinion, will remain for 8 more weeks.

The actual restrictions make no difference to anyone now - its just the petty bureaucracy at work.

Our SEQ water crisis of a number of years back resulted in the State Gov't taking over all the water resources (dams) that WE (rate payers) owned. The newly formed bureaucratic nuthouse that was created to (mis) manage their newfound ill-gotten gains, succeeded in wasting a heap of cash and everyone's water bills went through the roof (new water bills as previously they were included in our rates) and eventually the Gold Coast council caved in under public pressure and demanded our water back again. The State Gov't couldn't have cared less by then, as it was raining again so they relented and agreed to the demands......but get this, they SOLD it back for an absolute motzer! :evil:

It was ours to start with that was stolen from us! The GCCC had to borrow to get it back and now our water bill (which we never had previously) is almost as big as the rates bill that used cover it all.

 

[DaveB]

Just a couple of comment, take them as you will no offence intended.

Point 1. You don't have a problem persay but of course you own particular council merger shouldn't happen. Isn't that a NIMBY.
Point 2. Isn't it the rego plate is registered with the tag provider there is no issue, you keep driving and nothing required. (It is with my tag company anyway, as long as they have the plate number it goes on my bill regardless of tag)
Point 3. That is a valid, I had to replace a lost license once and my passport and birth certificate were not deemed adequate. I asked for two officers names so I could make a complaint and they suddenly said they would do it this time only.

Matt

Point 1 - I am actually in favour of merging three of the Councils together to form a northern beaches council, though that wasn't the point I was endeavouring to make. The issue was how difficult the bureaucrats made it to attend the two meetings concerning the one current council held on the same day spanning from 1pm to 10pm and 30km apart. I had no choice but to give up an afternoon from work to attend meetings regarding my council.
Point 2 - Sure, the toll charge is made to your account, however you also incur a 55 cent video charge per transaction which having a monthly toll bill over $1,000, I can assure you adds up.
Point 3 - Her licence wasn't lost. The RMS officer effectively gave it no credibility. It is unfortunate that state bureaucracies seemingly treat other state jurisdictions no better than someone's credentials from OS.

 

[Renato1]

Isn't there a risk that you could seek to, say, claim to be someone other than Renato1? In an insurance matter perhaps?

Can't see how, as all my photo ID has me as "Renato".

The only snag I've had is that the Italian government, who had previously given me an Italian passport using the Australian Passport with "Renato" and the other name on it, have changed their policy, saying they'll only give me a passport in the name on my birth certificate, and that I have to change the Australian Passport to that name as well.

Oh, and one day I was in at Births, Deaths and Marriages getting birth certificates for my cousins who are overseas. The chap asked to see my drivers licence to make sure who I was. He noted that the name was different from that on his computer against my Birth Certificate. So he asked me for other photo ID. I gave him my Shooters Licence and Defence Pass. Then he tacked my new name detail against his Birth Cerificate record. "How Good Is That?" I thought - it should save me from having to muck around with a lawyer and Deed Poll at a later date. I sort of can't see this type of quick action happening in NSW.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Deleted member 29185]

It is unfortunate that state bureaucracies seemingly treat other state jurisdictions no better than someone's credentials from OS.

I deal with all the Australian jurisdictions frequently and I have a name for what you describe.........I call it the "State of Origin" effect! Through thick and thin, for richer or poorer, through sickness and in health, each jurisdiction will be very "one eyed" despite logic to the contrary, evidence proving them wrong and effective methods proven elsewhere, the "State of Origin" effect predominantly wins until someone has "a bright idea" that can be unwaveringly attributed to their jurisdiction.

Whilst very annoying very frequently, it also has some tragic consequences. I'm appearing at an inquest in the near future to explain why the "State of Origin" effect caused an avoidable death.

 

[medhead]

Anyone having jurisdictional issues are would probably be well placed to look into the Mutual Recognition Act. I've used it successfully a couple of times.

It is extremely important to remember that each state is there own jurisdiction. The rules of other states simply do not apply. Used to have a regular occurrence where a state would demand we, in a second state, provide written certification about something in the second state. Would just reply that we can confirm that the requirements in our state have been met, (or not if that was the case). Same Same that I prepare certain reports now in NSW, but I can't prepare those for anyone in Victoria.

The Victorian driver's licence and marriage certificate certainly aren't a matter of "state of origin". It sounds very much like they required proof of the married name, not that the victorian driver's licence was an issue. OF course, it is ludicrous to not accept a passport as that is issued based on seeing the marriage certificate.

 

[Deleted member 6404]

My best one was the NSW traffic people - I assume RMS now. When moving to NSW, I went to surrender the number plates for the car. The RMS person refused to give me a receipt for the old number plates. Apparently I didn't need it. Apparently they needed to keep the receipt to prove to themselves that they had collected the number plates in case they ever had to check if they had collected the number plates. Or something like that.

Really? My old ute is still in the paddock keeping watch on the grasses, it ran out of reg was asked by the QLD motor vehicles dept if I was going to reg it I ignored the letter then 6 months later was advised that the car was no longer registered, really? they than ask me to return the plates, in my head the answer was Fu** off stop wasting my time after a few more letters of demand for the plates and afew more Fu** offs in my head the plates are still on the car in the paddock and that was 5 years ago, lol I hate bureaucrats. Time is money you want the plates you pay my price $250 cash.