AA Fares LAX-SYD

[kempvet]

I regularly fly the route and have just landed from another SYD-LAX-SYD day turn around. What puzzles me, is that the cheapest Y fare on AA was about $2200 US for the LAX-SYD-LAX trip. However, there were over 100 empty seats on the QF metal on the flights which I have recently taken when the AA fare was around the $2200 US mark.

I know that I am not privy to the inside workings of air fare setting, but why would the AA fare be about $800 dollars more than the QF fare when the planes have so many empty seats.

 

[TomVexille]

I don't know the inside workings of the QF and AA partnership, but I suspect that the cheap fare buckets that AA has access to have sold out.

 

[kempvet]

I don't know the inside workings of the QF and AA partnership, but I suspect that the cheap fare buckets that AA has access to have sold out.

Could well be the case but I think that there is something more going on with this fare structure, I watch the fares on a daily basis because SYD-LAX makes up the bulk of my flying, they usually allocate at most 7 seats on the cheaper fares to AA, but they don't all sell out, overnight, the entire itinerary will change to a higher rate, like is was a decision make regardless of the number of seats sold.

My original point was that airlines are there to make money, empty seats perhaps could be filled with AA discount fares even 72 hours from takeoff. Even if QF only made $100 from the AA fares, it would make a difference to their bottom line, on my recent QF11 flight there were 180 empty seats, a sale 72 hours before this flight may have filled some of these seats, unless the airlines think that 180 passengers will book at the normal fare 72 hours out!

 

[TomVexille]

I don't disagree, an empty seat doesn't make you any money.

 

[drron]

Do AA have access to a particular fare class or just a certain number of seats.
One experience of mine.I was on an AA award in J,mrsdrron a revenue QF ticket SYD-BKK.
Problem I was allocated 2A and mrsdrron was in 3F.Rang AA and was told the only seats they could move me to were 3A and 4A.But 3C and 4C were occupied.So emailed our TA who got us 3A,C.from the AA agent it was certainly implied that they only had 4 seats in the J cabin they could sell or give out as an award.

 

[kempvet]

Do AA have access to a particular fare class or just a certain number of seats.
One experience of mine.I was on an AA award in J,mrsdrron a revenue QF ticket SYD-BKK.
Problem I was allocated 2A and mrsdrron was in 3F.Rang AA and was told the only seats they could move me to were 3A and 4A.But 3C and 4C were occupied.So emailed our TA who got us 3A,C.from the AA agent it was certainly implied that they only had 4 seats in the J cabin they could sell or give out as an award.

I am sure that AA, BA etc would only have a set amount of seats on QF metal, and as they are sold they up the price, the last available BA booked seat on QF metal may be considerably more than the QF booking site for the same class. Still a puzzle when I see the AA fare at $2200 when there are over 100 spare seats in Y. Someone in the industry may be able to answer this one. Maybe AA pre purchases a set number of seats from QF and then sells them, once they have covered costs, perhaps they look at the months revenue and not the individual flights, therefore vacant seats are not an issue for them, selling one for 2200 dollars may bring the profit of 5 at 1100 if they are buying them at 900 dollars from QF?

 

[Kangol]

I'm not following.
Just to be clear, are you talking about the same fare bucket on QF metal - but on ex-USA vs ex-Oz tickets? Are you talking about QF vs AA flight number codeshare?
When you say SYD-LAX and vice versa, are you referring to QF11/12 or 107/108?

Maybe give some explicit examples of what you are referring to?

 

[kempvet]

I'm not following.
Just to be clear, are you talking about the same fare bucket on QF metal - but on ex-USA vs ex-Oz tickets? Are you talking about QF vs AA flight number codeshare?
When you say SYD-LAX and vice versa, are you referring to QF11/12 or 107/108?

Maybe give some explicit examples of what you are referring to?

Here are a couple of examples (all in US dollars), the AA fare (booked on the AA site) is close to 800 dollars more than the QF fare (booked on the QF site)
But over the last couple of times I have flown these flights, there has been this same fare difference, but usually about 100 spare seats in Y.
My confusion is why the AA fare is so high when the seat occupancy is so poor in Y

Booked on AA site
Apr 15 AA 7366 LAX 11:50PM SYD 7:35AM 14h 45m Boeing 747 Economy (N)
Apr 22 AA 7365 SYD 9:50AM LAX 6:30AM 13h 40m Boeing 747 Economy (N)
$2,209.00


Booked on QF site
Apr 15 QF 108 LAX 11:50PM SYD 7:35AM 14h 45m Boeing 747 Economy (O)
Apr 22 QF 107 SYD 9:50AM LAX 6:30AM 13h 40m Boeing 747 Economy (O)
$1,472.00

 

[Kangol]

Here are a couple of examples (all in US dollars), the AA fare (booked on the AA site) is close to 800 dollars more than the QF fare (booked on the QF site)
But over the last couple of times I have flown these flights, there has been this same fare difference, but usually about 100 spare seats in Y.
My confusion is why the AA fare is so high when the seat occupancy is so poor in Y

Booked on AA site
Apr 15 AA 7366 LAX 11:50PM SYD 7:35AM 14h 45m Boeing 747 Economy (N)
Apr 22 AA 7365 SYD 9:50AM LAX 6:30AM 13h 40m Boeing 747 Economy (N)
$2,209.00


Booked on QF site
Apr 15 QF 108 LAX 11:50PM SYD 7:35AM 14h 45m Boeing 747 Economy (O)
Apr 22 QF 107 SYD 9:50AM LAX 6:30AM 13h 40m Boeing 747 Economy (O)
$1,472.00

Oh, well the first thing I can see is fare bucket. IIRC, O is generally cheaper than N.
Second is codeshare difference - and the marketing "costs", or the idea that a limited number of seats in a particular fare bucket may be available when selling as a codeshare.

Because the fare buckets are different, I don't think this is a strictly "apples for apples" comparison.

Do you know what the QF site is offering the same flights in the N fare bucket?
EF is showing base fare as US$633 for OKQFA, $1003 for NKQFA and $1370 for NKRT.

Edit: used matrix.itasoftware.com and found QF 108/107 on the same dates for $1842 in N. So that $400 difference for the AA codeshare may be some carrier or marketing charges incorporated into the base fare type...? I haven't looked at the conditions but I would imagine there is some detectable difference betwee the two.

The next question is "why can't I buy the ticket with an AA flight number in O class?"
It's not showing on matrix.itasoftware and my first guess is it is sold out. It may not also have been available to buy in the first place at this point in time?

 

[kempvet]

The next question is "why can't I buy the ticket with an AA flight number in O class?"
It's not showing on matrix.itasoftware and my first guess is it is sold out. It may not also have been available to buy in the first place at this point in time?

I check the site daily, I haven't seen the AA O fare for many months now, and what puzzles me is how an A380 can carry 180 empty seats when the AA O fare is never offered. I suppose the default thinking is to always assume that the airlines maximise profit from seat sales, but it could also be that nobody bothers to really check the situation on the SYD-LAX route in the AA offices, lets face it, it may only be 1% of their global revenue and it is just easier to keep the fares where they are rather than adjust them all the time.

 

[wandering_fred]

I check the site daily, I haven't seen the AA O fare for many months now, and what puzzles me is how an A380 can carry 180 empty seats when the AA O fare is never offered. I suppose the default thinking is to always assume that the airlines maximise profit from seat sales, but it could also be that nobody bothers to really check the situation on the SYD-LAX route in the AA offices, lets face it, it may only be 1% of their global revenue and it is just easier to keep the fares where they are rather than adjust them all the time.

Probably for the same reason that QF in the end would only let BA sell standalone SIN-PER code shares in Y/B class while they were still selling N and S class.

Note: BA credit 100% EQM to AA on almost all fare classes. QF S and N earn 25%, with even less EQP.

Assumption: QF has a problem with passengers earning anything other than QF points and SC.

Happy wandering

Fred