QF domestic return - consequence of no-show for outbound leg?

[Jack_OC]

Hi all,
I have a QF domestic return booking, but I can no longer make the outbound leg. QF does not have a suitable alternative option for the outbound leg, so I wanted to cancel the QF outbound and book a new one way with VA (and keep the return leg of my existing QF booking).

I called QF to do see if I could do this, but they said I would have to pay 2 x $99 change fees - one to split the booking into 2 x one-ways (payable now) and one that would be deducted from the flight credit value when I rebook. A further problem is, the credit would only be valid for a few weeks from now, as it's apparently 12 months from the date of the original booking. This would mean paying an extra $99 now, to get a credit that is really only worth about $120 net, which will probably expire before I can use it.

The QF agent said my other option is to simply forfeit the outbound leg by not showing up. She assured me this would have no impact on my return flight booking. Is that correct? I always thought that a no show for the first leg of a return booking resulted in automatic cancellation of the return leg. TIA.

 

[RichardMEL]

Disagree with that advice. On rt tickets, if outbound is no show, the whole thing will be cancelled.

I would NOT do this.

 

[Ade]

The QF agent said my other option is to simply forfeit the outbound leg by not showing up. She assured me this would have no impact on my return flight booking. Is that correct?

What .... the .... ACTUAL .... a QF agent saying this! #Unacceptable ... Traininggggggggggg

agree with @RichardMEL - no show on onward, will cancel the whole booking. No such thing as return only when there is no onward.

 

[Jack_OC]

Thanks for the replies. That's what I thought - furthermore, I am not sure if she was correct in saying I'd have to pay 2 x change fees. I have never heard of that before either. I was not actually sure if it was even possible to cancel one leg of a return booking.

 

[Ade]

2 x $99 change fees - one to split the booking into 2 x one-ways (payable now) and one that would be deducted from the flight credit value when I rebook

Booking can be split online by pax itself from QF MMB. So far IME, splitting a PNR is when there are more than one pax in the PNR and one of the pax is unable to travel or any other reasons that warrants that the said pax need to be separated from their travel party. This is usually where PNR split is used, IME. Happy to be corrected.

However, in your example, I could see why the QF agent might have suggested a split - in order to split the onward and return into 2 PNRs, cancel the onward (as it is no longer needed) and retain the return under the new PNR. I don't anything wrong with this approach, given that you were unable to make the onward anyways (read this as a customer initiated change and NOT an airline initiated one)

Now, re: the change fee - Depending on the Flexibility of your original ticket, there may/may not be a change fee levied. Assuming you don't have a Flex fare, then the $99 change is applicable, however, ONLY once because you are only doing one change - which is to cancel your onward (which the agent chose to do via PNR split). IMHO, there is no need for the 2nd $99 change fee AFAICS. However, I could be wrong here.

There might also have been a service fee ($45 or so) if any of the requests you made over the phone was something that you could have done so yourself via other means (without calling/reaching out to QF). From your post, I don't see that there was a mention of the $45 service fee anyways.

 

[Ade]

one that would be deducted from the flight credit value when I rebook.

Re this - I thought any flight credit that exists in your profile can be used at payment page when purchasing a ticket via QF website. I had a CoVID Credit that I used late last year by selecting it as check out (payment page) on QF website. Is this something else?

Scratch that - it was a Qantas Pass that I had and was able to select it as one of the payment options when purchasing a tkt from QF website.

 

[Jack_OC]

Re this - I thought any flight credit that exists in your profile can be used at payment page when purchasing a ticket via QF website. I had a CoVID Credit that I used late last year by selecting it as check out (payment page) on QF website. Is this something else?

No you are correct. However, the way this works in practice is they issue a credit for the full value of the fare, and then only apply the $99 change fee when you redeem the credit. It's a strange way to do it, but that's QF for you.

For example, if the fare is $250, they give you a credit for $250, but in effect it's only worth $151, as they add a $99 fee when you redeem. That has always been how they do it in my experience.

With COVID credits (in general) there was no change fee, which is why you would not have experienced this when using COVID credits.

 

[oz_mark]

Conditions of Carriage people...

(b) If you notify us in advance, in accordance with any timeframes set out in your Fare Rules, that you will not show up for the flight, we will not cancel any subsequent flight bookings on your Ticket.

 

[Jack_OC]

Conditions of Carriage people...

Interesting ... but, the first agent I spoke to explicitly said I didn't even have to notify them - just not show up. I just called again, and got a different person, who said what I was told was incorrect, and a no show would indeed result in cancellation of the rtn.

Anyway, I have now got it sorted. They changed the outbound to after the return, and waived the change fee. So now I can just do a no show on that leg.

 

[BAM1748]

Interesting ... but, the first agent I spoke to explicitly said I didn't even have to notify them - just not show up. I just called again, and got a different person, who said what I was told was incorrect, and a no show would indeed result in cancellation of the rtn.

Anyway, I have now got it sorted. They changed the outbound to after the return, and waived the change fee. So now I can just do a no show on that leg.

Just a rule of mine, when ringing always get the name of the person you speak to and note the date and time. I've never lost an argument with a call centre when I start bringing out the details.

 

[RichardMEL]

Anyway, I have now got it sorted. They changed the outbound to after the return, and waived the change fee. So now I can just do a no show on that leg

Nice move. Though I would cxl after using return leg - at least get some value in a voucher - and doesn't produce a no show.


As for the "notify us and we won't cancel" bit.. I wonder how many agents know how to do what is required...

Paging @madrooster to the White Courtesy Telephone...

 

[Must...Fly!]

Conditions of Carriage people...

However a vast majority of tickets do not allow for no show so I'd be a bit suspicious of that clause. Before the day of, you're really cancelling leg one. I expect a domestic "return" ticket will behave very differently in this scenario to an international one.

 

[madrooster]

Hi all,
I have a QF domestic return booking, but I can no longer make the outbound leg. QF does not have a suitable alternative option for the outbound leg, so I wanted to cancel the QF outbound and book a new one way with VA (and keep the return leg of my existing QF booking).

I called QF to do see if I could do this, but they said I would have to pay 2 x $99 change fees - one to split the booking into 2 x one-ways (payable now) and one that would be deducted from the flight credit value when I rebook. A further problem is, the credit would only be valid for a few weeks from now, as it's apparently 12 months from the date of the original booking. This would mean paying an extra $99 now, to get a credit that is really only worth about $120 net, which will probably expire before I can use it.

The QF agent said my other option is to simply forfeit the outbound leg by not showing up. She assured me this would have no impact on my return flight booking. Is that correct? I always thought that a no show for the first leg of a return booking resulted in automatic cancellation of the return leg. TIA.

Disagree with that advice. On rt tickets, if outbound is no show, the whole thing will be cancelled.

I would NOT do this.

What .... the .... ACTUAL .... a QF agent saying this! #Unacceptable ... Traininggggggggggg

agree with @RichardMEL - no show on onward, will cancel the whole booking. No such thing as return only when there is no onward.

What the first agent told you, was actually correct for the no showing part, if you were happy to forfeit that coupon. They were wrong on the 2x change fees - that's not correct. It's unnecessary to go and split the ticket up and it ends up costing you more than necessary.

On a wholly domestic PNR, that is there's nothing not in Australia in the PNR, you can no show any flight in the ticket and be able to fly the other domestic flights.

Some simplistic examples...

Example A:

21/02 SYD-HBA
24/02 HBA-MEL
27/02 MEL-SYD

You want to no show the SYD-HBA. That is fine to do and you can still fly the HBA-MEL-SYD.

Best practice is to call QF and get them to formally delete the SYD-HBA flight AND also "suspend" the ticket coupon.

Example B:

21/02 SYD-BNE
24/02 BNE-MEL
27/02 MEL-SYD

You want to no show the BNE-MEL. That is fine to do and you can still fly the SYD-BNE and MEL-SYD.

Best practice is to call QF and get them to formally delete the BNE-MEL flight AND also "suspend" the ticket coupon.

Example C:

21/02 SYD-MEL
24/02 MEL-BNE-CNS (on a through fare ie. a MEL-CNS fare with connection in BNE)
27/02 CNS-SYD

You want to no show the MEL-BNE but still board the BNE-CNS. You cannot do that as your ticketed route was MEL-CNS.

However if you wanted to no show the BNE-CNS, technically you can't if you have flown the MEL-BNE, but who's going to stop you?

If you want to no show the entire MEL-BNE-CNS, that is fine. Best practice is to call QF and get them to formally delete the MEL-BNE-CNS flights AND also "suspend" the ticket coupons.

Example D:

27/02 PER-BNE
02/03 BNE-AKL

You want to no show the PER-BNE. No showing the PER-BNE would potentially trigger what's called a downline cancellation which cancels everything else remaining on the PNR due to no show, due to the fact it is an international ticket/fare.

 

[Ade]

Some simplistic examples...

Really good examples, @madrooster - they clearly explain what needs to be done.

Example D:

27/02 PER-BNE
02/03 BNE-AKL

You want to no show the MEL-PER. No showing the MEL-PER would potentially trigger what's called a downline cancellation which cancels everything else remaining on the PNR due to no show, due to the fact it is an international ticket/fare

This one, I don't see a MEL-PER anywhere in this?

 

[madrooster]

This one, I don't see a MEL-PER anywhere in this?

I originally had MEL-PER in example D but removed it to simplify the example and failed to update the text underneath. I updated my post already.

 

[tdimdad]

On a wholly domestic PNR, that is there's nothing not in Australia in the PNR, you can no show any flight in the ticket and be able to fly the other domestic flights.

This is new to me and offers some nice flexibility, if ever needed.

Hopefully this is completely handled by their booking system and does not need any human intervention by QF staff. Knowing that people are not their greatest asset, a systemised approach is the only way this can work with them...

 

[TheInsider]

This is new to me and offers some nice flexibility, if ever needed.

Hopefully this is completely handled by their booking system and does not need any human intervention by QF staff. Knowing that people are not their greatest asset, a systemised approach is the only way this can work with them...

This isn't a new thing at all for domestic flights.
Simply if you no show on the first sector, that's the end of the conversation. There is nothing else to do or change. The other domestic sectors will not change at all.

Other airlines connecting to QF and QF to other airlines is a different matter though.

This is the fare rules for noshows on domestic services.
The ticket is not suspended. It's purely the sector that was a no show.

~ No Show: In relation to Domestic Australia travel, Qantas defines "No-Show" as a passenger: (a) not having checked in for the relevant sector shown on their booking by 30 minutes before scheduled flight departure time, without prior notification to the airline of a change or cancellation of that sector in accordance with the applicable fare conditions; or (b) having checked in for the relevant sector shown on their booking, but who fails to board the aircraft by the closure of boarding. Where a passenger has no-showed, the coupon for the relevant sector is rendered void and no longer valid for travel or exchange.

 

[RichardMEL]

Well I've been edumacated. Thanks folks. What an interesting "feature" of dom fares.

 

[opusman]

Probably because there are no "return" domestic fares these days, they're all just one-ways. A domestic trip booked as a "return" is really just two one-ways on the same PNR that just happen to take you back where you started.

Changed when we said goodbye to the bad old days when there was a penalty for one-way trips, not staying a Saturday night, etc...

 

[RichardMEL]

Probably because there are no "return" domestic fares these days, they're all just one-ways. A domestic trip booked as a "return" is really just two one-ways on the same PNR that just happen to take you back where you started.

Changed when we said goodbye to the bad old days when there was a penalty for one-way trips, not staying a Saturday night, etc...

Very good point.

My thinking was more the mechanics of having multiple sectors in a PNR and missing one woukd (normally) invalidate the rest (which as madroister pointed out is the case when international, or non QF flights are introduced).

I wonder if this is Amadeus functionality?