Qantas group to cut all International routes and stand down two thirds of its staff

[serfty]

The press release mentions cancelled flights will be automatically converted into a travel credit, with Qantas notifying customers from Monday.

Does not mention at this stage whether cash refund is available ...

If they cant provide service they have to refund, thats the law.

This situation sucks for Qantas staff but its highly likely the government will bail them out and pick up the tab for the staff to sit at home. Shame they wont do the same for the mom and pop corner store.

So how do you get the refund Is the question on my lips.

Hopefully Qantas will refund if pressed but it is likely you are gunna need to push hard, they are just not drawing attention to their policy: Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

---

Customers are entitled to a refund in the following situations:

If we cancel your flight and we cannot offer you suitable alternative arrangements.
If we delay your flight to the extent that you have to cancel your travel.
If we make a significant change# to the scheduled flight time and we are unable to book you on an alternative flight that is acceptable to you.
If we cause you to miss a connecting Qantas flight on which you have a confirmed reservation.
If we are unable to carry you and you have a confirmed reservation."

---

Of course the auto convert to a credit will likely create an additional hurdle.

In any case if I booked a flight to travel on a certain date and the airline cancels it and offers no alternative on that date consumer law would indicate I am entitled to a full refund, not a travel credit. if they obfuscate I'm sure the ACCC may have something to say about that.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Feel desperately sorry for the staff - anything the government does to help with unemployment benefits etc is not likely to go far towards mortgages - must be a lot of stress for them at the moment

Will be interesting to watch for any announcement about suspending mortgage payments, as happened in Italy for I think 3 months. A large percentage of QF staff based in Sydney with commensurate mortgages and that's not going to be good.

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

I also think all this panic leading to drastic measures is a little over the top. And yes I do understand that people are losing their lives but the flu kills between 290,000-650,000 people worldwide a year.

I had similar thoughts, but this article put Covid-19 and the flu in perspective for me:

Why Covid-19 is worse than the flu, in one chart

It’s more contagious, more deadly (particularly for older people), and it has a greater potential to overwhelm our health care system.

www.vox.com

Covid-19 is nearly twice as infectious as the flu (R0 of 2-2.5 vs 1.3). It puts 10 times as many infected people into hospital as the flu (almost 20% of those infected instead of 2%). It is between 10 and 34+ times more lethal as the flu (1 to 3.4+% mortality rate vs 0.1%).

While some of these rates may decline as we learn more, there's no doubt that Covid-19 is a significantly more infections and dangerous virus. If the total number of people who've died is lower than the flu, it's because the number of people who have been afflicted by it is much, much lower.

And while 290,000 to 650,000 people worldwide may die of the flu, think of it this way: If 10 million people in Australia were to get it in the next year (not an outrageous assumption given the higher infection rate, and that some people have talked about 70% of a country's population being infected), and the mortality rate is indeed around 3%, then that's 300,000 people who would die from it, just in Australia alone.

The measures being taken do appear in some ways to be over the top, I agree. But the operative word is "appear". Paradoxically, the more the restrictions and inconveniences are placed on people, the less obvious it will be that these impositions will have been worthwhile, because the sky will not have fallen.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Hopefully Qantas will refund if pressed but it is likely you are gunna need to push hard, they are just not drawing attention to their policy: Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

Hoping that is the case also.

Given Qantas' current predicament I wouldn't be surprised if they try to hold onto the cash from cancelled bookings as long as possible.

I guess we'll find out on Monday when Qantas start to contact customers directly on flight cancellations.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I had similar thoughts, but this article put Covid-19 and the flu in perspective for me:

Not to mention that you can get vaccinated against the flu! COVID-19 we're on our own... only a couple of experimental treatments, and if you have elderly or vulnerable carer responsibilities, the mortality rate (around 20%) is alarming.

 

[Hvr]

I also personally think some of these union mobsters need to calm down Karen and pull everything together, get their priorities straight and work with management rather than issuing provocative media statements with technicalities. Seriously.

Talking goes both ways. And the union leaders and their members, i.e. Qantas employees are scared for the future.

With a potential long term shut down and no income for most of that period many of the people affected will have their lives irrevocably changed. Some will never work in the industry again and with jobs very hard to get, may not even work again.

 

[clipped_wings]

The measures being taken do appear in some ways to be over the top, I agree. But the operative word is "appear". Paradoxically, the more the restrictions and inconveniences are placed on people, the less obvious it will be that these impositions will have been worthwhile, because the sky will not have fallen.

I love this comment! As all frequent (or not-so-frequent) flyers debate the raging storm that is Qantas and Virgin Australia's future - spare a thought for humanity. No airline will matter if there is no-one to fly anyone anywhere. Those "over the top" measures may sound extreme, but no-one will ever know just what sized bullet we avoided by the implementation of extreme preemptive measures, especially if Australia comes through this relatively unscathed when compared to other nations.

We are such a complacent lot.

 

[levelnine]

Does anyone know when the last QF flight from LHR is scheduled to depart? I'm on QF2 departing LHR on 30 March and trying to work out if it will still fly.

 

[amaroo]

The ABC ran a story today about "stood down" and workforce - How businesses like Qantas can stand down permanent employees and not pay them

I'm sure more than a few business owners may find it an interesting read.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Covid-19 is nearly twice as infectious as the flu (R0 of 2-2.5 vs 1.3).

But the R0 of a pathogen is not fixed.
It depends on behaviour.
That is the point of measures such as social distancing and lockdowns.
We can actually reduce the R0. In fact we must reduce it to less than 1.
That means each infected person infects fewer than 1 other person.
Only then will cases start to decline.

 

[11sjw]

Should the government get involved in QF's predicament via "bail out" money? If they did should the government seek an equity position for any money handed over?

 

[Happy Trails]

Maybe they should seek a refund for all those shares they bought back.

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

But the R0 of a pathogen is not fixed.
It depends on behaviour.
That is the point of measures such as social distancing and lockdowns.
We can actually reduce the R0. In fact we must reduce it to less than 1.
That means each infected person infects fewer than 1 other person.
Only then will cases start to decline.

My understanding is that R0 is defined as the infection rate in a population where everyone is susceptible to infection (eg nobody has had it before) and prior to any attempts to control the spread, eg via vaccination or social distancing. The effective infection rate after various preventative measures I believe is referred to as R (without the 0). So R0 is basically the theoretical maximum infection rate, whereas R will usually be a smaller "real world" number. That said, I'm not an expert in any of this, so could be wrong; or maybe the terms R0 and R are used interchangeably depending on the context. In any case, it's a semantic issue.

Your main point is absolutely correct, and one I didn't make clear: we can reduce the effective infection rate to less than 1. In the absence of a coronavirus vaccine, social distancing and quarantining is the best we can do for the moment.

 

[amaroo]

R0 ....

 

[levelnine]

Frustrating that the Qantas phone number now just hangs up. There is no way to contact Qantas at the moment.

 

[moa999]

Should the government get involved in QF's predicament via "bail out" money? If they did should the government seek an equity position for any money handed over?

Tough one.
Specific debt guarantees (probably little different to what the RBA did for the banks today) ok.
Specific policies for airline industry employees (who have been stood down). Ok

Actually loans, or cash injections. Take equity.

 

[jase05]

Just got a email from QF regarding all route changes. Some big frequency cuts and quite a few suspended routes.

 

[Danger]

Significant temporary lounge closures have also been announced, including all Chairmans lounges.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Anyone know what this part means?
"In this climate you may also notice some temporary changes to your inflight and lounge experience. "

 

[jase05]

Anyone know what this part means?
"In this climate you may also notice some temporary changes to your inflight and lounge experience. "

I’m guessing no buffets in lounges and possibly changes to food packaging or even meal service onboard