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I'm sorry gowatson but I believe your mind is closed.have a look at the data-3 out of the 4 sets of data show 1998 was warmer than 2010.It doesn't matter ...
  1. #571
    Posting Enthusiast drron's Avatar
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    Re: Carbon Tax

    I'm sorry gowatson but I believe your mind is closed.have a look at the data-3 out of the 4 sets of data show 1998 was warmer than 2010.It doesn't matter how much newer your graphs are the only way it could change is if someone had fiddled with the data.
    And where did I say it wasn't warming-I have continually said the rate of warming 1998-2010 is not as great as 1980-1998.I have stressed that because you keep saying that the rate of increase is growing and that simply is wrong.I cant be bothered going back over the thread to quote you.
    And again you didn't answer the question i asked.I do read your posts but you do not understand mine.
    I'm tired now i have stated my case so goodbye.

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  3. #572
    connieguy
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    Re: Carbon Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by drron View Post
    I'm sorry gowatson but I believe your mind is closed.have a look at the data-3 out of the 4 sets of data show 1998 was warmer than 2010.It doesn't matter how much newer your graphs are the only way it could change is if someone had fiddled with the data.
    And where did I say it wasn't warming-I have continually said the rate of warming 1998-2010 is not as great as 1980-1998.I have stressed that because you keep saying that the rate of increase is growing and that simply is wrong.I cant be bothered going back over the thread to quote you.
    And again you didn't answer the question i asked.I do read your posts but you do not understand mine.
    I'm tired now i have stated my case so goodbye.
    Please quote your source as here is the official data:

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    Only one source has 1998 as warmer than 2010 and then only by 0.02 deg with a error of +-0.09 (according to the WMO) they are basically the same. So not source now shows 1998 as the warmest year. If you look at the solar intensity data curve for 1998 versus 2010 you will see 2010 had less solar heating assistance than 1998 did, so in effect working from a constant solar input, 2010 was hotter than 1998 as 2010 has less solar heating yet achieved the same result as did 1998 which had higher solar heating.

    Here is the WMO opinion which says 1998, 2005 and 2010 all tie for the hottest year:
    2010 record temperature

    Bottom line is the Carbon tax will not make a rats ass of difference to what is happening to our planet. It is too little, too late.

    But we do need a leader who will try to find a pathway so as to mitigate away as much as possible of the negative effects of AGW on Australia, our GDP and life style.

    Yes I do agree that the rate of warming has slowed a bit over the last decade and one of the causes of that is the funny solar cycle the sun just came out of:

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    The drop in the suns energy was very small, about 0.02% but enough to slow the rate of growth a little bit for most of the last decade. Even so it has not stopped the Arctic Ice Cap from losing volume at a record rate and that is the Canary in the Coal mine that will soon melt away in the peak summer sun of say 2015.
    Last edited by connieguy; 23rd July 2011 at 12:53 AM.

  4. #573
    Posting Enthusiast drron's Avatar
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    Re: Carbon Tax

    Already said where the data is in post 565.See you dont really read my posts.
    This is my last post on this.I dont like talking to brick walls.

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  6. #574
    connieguy
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    Re: Carbon Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by drron View Post
    Already said where the data is in post 565.See you dont really read my posts.
    This is my last post on this.I dont like talking to brick walls.
    Sorry but HADCRUT3, RSS and UAH are not the same thing and you know it. RSS and UAH are mid troposphere satellite temperature data records. What do they show? It is getting hotter:
    File:Satellite Temperatures.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    HADCRUT3, NOAA, NASA and the Japanese data Nasa and the WMO referenced are ground and sea temperature based readings from weather stations. You know as well as I do that you can not directly compare RSS and UAH mid troposphere satellite data to the ground and sea based measurements.

    I have no agenda other than understand what is happening to our planet. I do not give a rats ass about the Carbon Tax or politics. I do however suspect that is where we really differ as you seem to have an agenda to support. If I got that wrong then I do apologize.

    So to clear the air:

    Do you believe the planet is warming due to increased levels of GHGs in the atmosphere?

    Do you believe that we humans directly and indirectly are the main causes of the increased amounts of GHG in the atmosphere?

  7. #575
    Senior Member Sprucegoose's Avatar
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    Re: Carbon Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by gowatson View Post
    Sorry but HADCRUT3, RSS and UAH are not the same thing and you know it. RSS and UAH are mid troposphere satellite temperature data records. What do they show? It is getting hotter:File:Satellite Temperatures.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediae?
    Are you seriously quoting wikipedia????



    Cheers

    Spruce

    'Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow mindedness '- Mark Twain

  8. #576
    Established Member Oneworldplus2's Avatar
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    Re: Carbon Tax

    Copy and paste from another website, but still worthy of a look.

    The following address by Dr David Evans is an excellent short explanation (for those who are always asking for references but can't be bothered taking the time to look them up and spend the time reading them) of how we are being misled by the propaganda of the climate change "warmists".

    Dr David Evans consulted full-time for the Australian Greenhouse Office (now the Department of Climate Change) from 1999 to 2005, and part-time 2008 to 2010, modeling Australiaís carbon in plants, debris, mulch, soils, and forestry and agricultural products. Evans is a mathematician and engineer, with six university degrees including a PhD from Stanford University in electrical engineering. The area of human endeavor with the most experience and sophistication in dealing with feedbacks and analyzing complex systems is electrical engineering, and the most crucial and disputed aspects of understanding the climate system are the feedbacks. The evidence supporting the idea that CO2 emissions were the main cause of global warming reversed itself from 1998 to 2006, causing Evans to move from being a warmist to a skeptic.

    He says.........

    "The debate about global warming has reached ridiculous proportions and is full of micro thin half-truths and misunderstandings. I am a scientist who was on the carbon gravy train, understands the evidence, was once an alarmist, but am now a skeptic. Watching this issue unfold has been amusing but, lately, worrying. This issue is tearing society apart, making fools and liars out of our politicians."
    Yeah, l think he has the right credentials for this....




    David Evans, Carbon Accounting Modeler, Says Itís a Scam ę JoNova: Science, carbon, climate and tax

    Dr David Evansí address to the Anti-Carbon-Tax rally, Perth Australia, 23 March 2011.
    Good Morning Ladies and Gentlemen.

    The debate about global warming has reached ridiculous proportions and is full of micro thin half-truths and misunderstandings. I am a scientist who was on the carbon gravy train, understands the evidence, was once an alarmist, but am now a skeptic. Watching this issue unfold has been amusing but, lately, worrying. This issue is tearing society apart, making fools and liars out of our politicians.
    Letís set a few things straight. The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s. But the gravy train was too big, with too many jobs, industries, trading profits, political careers, and the possibility of world government and total control riding on the outcome. So rather than admit they were wrong, the governments, and their tame climate scientists, now cheat and lie outrageously to maintain the fiction that carbon dioxide is a dangerous pollutant.
    Letís be perfectly clear. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, and other things being equal, the more carbon dioxide in the air, the warmer the planet. Every bit of carbon dioxide that we emit warms the planet. But the issue is not whether carbon dioxide warms the planet, buthow much.
    Most scientists, on both sides, also agree on how much a given increase in the level of carbon dioxide raises the planetís temperature, if just the extra carbon dioxide is considered. These calculations come from laboratory experiments; the basic physics have been well known for a century.
    More from the link above.
    Sprucegoose likes this.

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  10. #577
    Posting Enthusiast oz_mark's Avatar
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    Re: Carbon Tax

    I think there is still some debate in the scientific community as to whether the extra water vapour causes a positive or negative feedback cycle. Most climate models assume positive feedback, but I am not sure the issue is truly settled.
    There's enough whine here. I'll bring some cheese.

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  12. #578
    Suspended medhead's Avatar
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    Re: Carbon Tax

    Lots of graphs but no one seems to have mentioned this story (there was also another one in the SMH about the KLM biofuel program but I can't find it)

    Fund biofuel from carbon tax says Qantas | The Australian

    One of the companies being studied by Qantas, Solena, has a deal with British Airways to build a plant in London to convert urban rubbish to biofuel, due to come on line in 2014. It will convert up to 500,000 tonnes of waste a year into 73 million litres of green jet fuel -- enough to power 2 per cent of BA's Heathrow fleet.
    Mr Joyce said Qantas expected to decide relatively soon on whether it was comfortable investing in a proposal to build a similar $300m plant in Australia .
    This would involve a contract committing the airline to buy the fuel, which it is estimated can be produced at between $US70 ($65) to $US80 a barrel.
    A practical example of what a carbon tax does, it makes Qantas look at invest $300 mil in biofuel. Given the fuel cost quoted and if I recall correctly, the current fuel cost of $100 to $140 per barrel, there is even a substantial saving to be had of the fuel.

    The other thing I wanted to share was an analysis of the Abbott alternative. I haven't read it all and I'm about to get on a plane so I'll not make any comment about this analysis.

    A close look at Abbott's Direct Action plan - The Drum Opinion - There's been precious little focus on the Opposition's carbon policy, which it calls 'Direct Action'. How effective would it be? (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


    Quote Originally Posted by Sprucegoose View Post
    I really think you lot have well and truly lost everyone with you graphs and particular interpretations, we need to get Lord Monckton out here for a review.
    Why? That guy thinks it is a Alien conspiracy.

  13. #579
    Established Member Limewood's Avatar
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    Re: Carbon TSo the rest of the world ax

    Have some questions about this carbon tax...

    The rest of the worlds big polluters like China, India and USA etc. will have a carbon tax too?.

    By Australia having this carbon tax will it really make much difference?.

    If Australia exports less coal, the world will not buy the coal from elsewhere?.

    Having this carbon tax will make people use less electricity from coal powered stations?.

    I wonder why I can't find one person who I know that understands what this carbon tax is about?.

    What is the cost of the admin. of this carbon tax?.

    Can we trust governments to not increase it or change it?.

  14. #580
    Member Durin's Bane's Avatar
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    Re: Carbon Tax

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smackbum View Post
    I'm surprised you forgot to remind us of the "Reds under our beds!"

    Lame.

    How about "Mudguard Party"?

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