How much of a refund should I expect? [IRROPS Downgrade]

[Flying Fox]

To the brains trust. I'm asking how much of a refund should I be expecting from QF for my involuntary flight changes.

Here is the story.

I bought 1x ADL-SYD-DPS return flight on QF in J via Flight Centre for $2400. I claimed a classic awards ticket for my wife on exactly the same flights.

Due to weather problems in SYD and after a whole bunch of messing around at the airport we were both put on ADL-MEL in J. Then we were given MEL-DPS on JQ. I was issued a boarding pass for J and Mrs Flying Fox was issued a boarding pass for Y.

After an additional delay in MEL for 3hrs we boarded JQ35 and I went straight up to the lovely CSM and told her that I would like to place Mrs Flying Fox in J and will sit in Y. She was fine with this and had the cabin crew come around to me a few extra times to maximise my comfort in Y.

The return flights were as planned.

So I have sorted out a partial refund of points for Mrs Flying Fox and (everyone can take a breath now) have already received my ORC. So as far as I'm concerned the points and SCs are all accounted for.

I have just started a claim with Flight Centre to put to QF for a partial cash refund (QF's suggested I do it this way).

What do people here think is a reasonable partial refund amount given my long winded story (and I understand its a first world problem) ?

TIA

 

[opusman]

You (paid ticket) were actually given a J seat (the fact that you let your wife sit in it was your decision).

What are you actually seeking a refund for? Just the difference in price between a QF J and a JQ J ticket for that leg?

 

[odysseus]

Half the return trip is $1200. But your ADL-MEL trip was J so delivered, so it’s only the MEL-DPS sector at issue. Domestic usually costs more than intl J (on a distance basis) so the sector value downgraded is about $600-800.

This ticket was the one replaced from QF j to JQ J so from a sector standpoint they would say equivalent cost i.e. if you bought JQ star class. However, it is a service downgrade but given the original low base cost I’d say $100-200 is about all that’s worth.

If you put more weight on the international sector (because ADL direct isn’t available) that increases the value lost. I can understand there are different valuations, but that’s what I think is reasonable.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What do people here think is a reasonable partial refund amount given my long winded story (and I understand its a first world problem) ?

TIA

Yikes. How long is a piece of string?

I think you are going to have to wait and see what the initial offer is that comes back from QF and Fright Centre. And then work from there. (I wouldn't necessarily accept the offer at first instance unless it feels generous).

Qantas will have its own way of calculating the refund. Probably based on 1/2 the return fare you paid (so $2400/2 = $1200) and subtract from that the full walk-up fare on Qantas (but flying Jetstar) on the day you flew. How much was that fare? The fare for tomorrow, for example, is $999 one way on Jetstar. So $1200 less $999 = $200back.

Then again, you might even get less than the $1200 as a starting point because QF will probably pro-rate the ADL-MEL-DPS, taking out whatever they charge for the ADL-MEL in business. So that might bring you down to $1000, less the $999= $1.

Let's see what fun and games QF's accounting comes up with

 

[Flying Fox]

You (paid ticket) were actually given a J seat (the fact that you let your wife sit in it was your decision).

What are you actually seeking a refund for? Just the difference in price between a QF J and a JQ J ticket for that leg?

I agree with what you have said.

What just interested in what others have received in similar circumstances?

 

[Flying Fox]

Yikes. How long is a piece of string?

I think you are going to have to wait and see what the initial offer is that comes back from QF and Fright Centre. And then work from there. (I wouldn't necessarily accept the offer at first instance unless it feels generous).

Yes this is my initial strategy.

Qantas will have its own way of calculating the refund. Probably based on 1/2 the return fare you paid (so $2400/2 = $1200) and subtract from that the full walk-up fare on Qantas (but flying Jetstar) on the day you flew. How much was that fare? The fare for tomorrow, for example, is $999 one way on Jetstar. So $1200 less $999 = $200back.

Then again, you might even get less than the $1200 as a starting point because QF will probably pro-rate the ADL-MEL-DPS, taking out whatever they charge for the ADL-MEL in business. So that might bring you down to $1000, less the $999= $1.

Very interesting calculations you have put forward.

I'm just trying to keep it real and set my expectations accordingly.

I'll try and keep people posted on what comes back in 'up to four weeks'.

 

[Dr Ralph]

$100.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If the SYD-DPS was scheduled for a 737 I'd almost reckon you were better off flying JQs 787 If you were supposed to be on the QF A330 then the downgrade sucks in terms of seating.

 

[muppet]

I'd demand $400 refund.

You purchased a discount Qantas Business fare at $1,200 - Jetstar regularly has ADL-DPS available in Business (via Mel) for ~$800.

The ADL - MEL in J sector is irrelevant as it was never part of your ticket. I'd also ask for 10,000 points compo for no longer having a flat-bed on SYD to DPS.

All in I believe you're owed:
- $400 cash refund
- 10,000 points for them selling you a flat bed and plonking you in a domestic J seat

Easier said than done however.... when purchasing a Business Class fare, a business class seat doesn't form part of your contract with Qantas.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

- 10,000 points for them selling you a flat bed and plonking you in a domestic J seat

in two minds about this however... this was IRROPS due to weather - outside QF's control? The OP wuld have been free to wait a day and fly fromn SYD, with flat bed, a day later. But I'm guessing they wanted to keep the extra day in Bali?

 

[BAM1748]

I think I'd ask for $500, anything above $200 is a bonus.

 

[Quickstatus]

That’s not how QF works out the refund.

They replace the SYD-DPS segment with a last minute one way ticket and priced accordingly so any refund will be a moot point

However what’s owing to you should be a reasonable amount to account for the differences in the J offering.

I’m thinking there will be points only but no $$$

 

[Flying Fox]

If the SYD-DPS was scheduled for a 737 I'd almost reckon you were better off flying JQs 787 If you were supposed to be on the QF A330 then the downgrade sucks in terms of seating.

Definately booked & paid for the QF A330 J product and not the QF B737 J product.

 

[Flying Fox]

in two minds about this however... this was IRROPS due to weather - outside QF's control? The OP wuld have been free to wait a day and fly fromn SYD, with flat bed, a day later. But I'm guessing they wanted to keep the extra day in Bali?

Was informed that I could go to SYD and over night there. No hotel accommodation was available due to hotel rooms having been fully booked out. I would have to stay with friends. Also told that I there was no J seats on QF43 the next day.

 

[dajop]

That’s not how QF works out the refund.

They replace the SYD-DPS segment with a last minute one way ticket and priced accordingly so any refund will be a moot point

Yes, according to expert flyer, full J fare for ADL-MEL on QF is $1273 and for MEL-DPS on JQ is $1144, total $2417. I'm sorry Flying Fox given you only paid $2400 for the return - that works out to be $1200 each direction, you owe QF $1217 for the flights you actually took.

 

[Flying Fox]

Yes, according to expert flyer, full J fare for ADL-MEL on QF is $1273 and for MEL-DPS on JQ is $1144, total $2417. I'm sorry Flying Fox given you only paid $2400 for the return - that works out to be $1200 each direction, you owe QF $1217 for the flights you actually took.

Crumbs!!!! Don't give QF any ideas

 

[Flying Fox]

An update if anyone is interested.

Flight Centre got back to me and said that QF have refunded me $385 which has now been transferred into my account.

I'm OK with this but would have liked $500. Overall fairly happy with the outcome.

 

[Quickstatus]

Interesting! Did they give you some accounting that might give some insight into how they arrived at that figure?

 

[Flying Fox]

Interesting! Did they give you some accounting that might give some insight into how they arrived at that figure?

No. The Flight Centre lady did say something along the lines of QF remove all the taxes and work on the difference in airfare cost between the QF J and JQ J.

I figured that the extra $115 that I would have liked would have been a hard fight and probably not worth the stress and my head space.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No. The Flight Centre lady did say something along the lines of QF remove all the taxes and work on the difference in airfare cost between the QF J and JQ J.

I figured that the extra $115 that I would have liked would have been a hard fight and probably not worth the stress and my head space.

Well it doesn’t appear to fit within the qantas downgrade table, which would have provided for AUD650 for the downgrade of a sector business—>premium economy for an AU-Asia sector. I guess QF manually does the calculation where it is to their advantage to do so.

(the only table I could find was dated 2012, not sure if there is a more recent one?)