Bonza Airline Discussion

[jb747]

Also safety is a consideration (Jetstar is coughpy but is trained by Qantas pilots, at least I try to convince myself along that line of logic when taking JQ).

Ah, not really. The quote from ex glorious leader was the he didn’t want the QF pilots to contaminate those from JQ.

 

[Quickstatus]

didn’t sell tickets in the way most Australians buy airline tickets,

this is interesting.
I suspect some of the pile on regarding this aspect has been from so called " industry insiders" maybe from people associated with GDS and the like?
How do most people actually buy airline tickets?
Or is this more a commentary about how should most people buy airline tickets?
The GDS and similar would have us believe that they should be involved - even for a simple point to point service like She'll be right mate Bonza

If the passenger loads are too low, it would not be price, or lack of travel agents.

 

[Mr H]

How do most people actually buy airline tickets?

I am just one data point, but I search for the best fare of the day on Skyscanner or somesuch and then I also check any websites of airlines that occur to me as likely to fly the route. I then buy the cheapest fare on the airline's own website. I do not use sales Apps and don't imagine I ever will. I think it is arrogant of a company to seek to claim a permanent spot of my screen real estate and device memory - especially for occasional purchases.

 

[travelislife]

this is interesting.
I suspect some of the pile on regarding this aspect has been from so called " industry insiders" maybe from people associated with GDS and the like?
How do most people actually buy airline tickets?
Or is this more a commentary about how should most people buy airline tickets?
The GDS and similar would have us believe that they should be involved - even for a simple point to point service like She'll be right mate Bonza

If the passenger loads are too low, it would not be price, or lack of travel agents.

GDS doesn't concern me and most of the general public. I get a small airline like Bonza not wanting to sign up to the cost of that. Problem is it excludes a lot of people from knowing you even exist as an option on a route. As I remember JetGo having the same issues, had great direct flights from Melbourne to Dubbo for $200, but if you ever searched on say Webjet to see all the options you only got the $500 connection options with Qantas, Virgin, Rex. So they were doing themselves out of revenue. And probably had to spend more on marketing to get their routes known.

But as a general punter I hate booking flights on my phone with any carrier. I always do it on computer.

Without a website point of sale I wasn't going to be a customer. I am in my late 30's and do a lot of other stuff by phone/app.

 

[Quickstatus]

best fare of the day

Yes, but I would suggest that most passengers don't do that.
Additionally there are nearly 30 routes which Bonza is the only operator, BFOD is more or less meaningless in that situation

I do not use sales Apps

I agree - they should have a website POS

So they were doing themselves out of revenue

What were the aircraft loadings?

Without a website point of sale

That is true. If they did not want to involve third parties, a website POS is necessary

 

[jb747]

Just reading Matt’s article, and it will be interesting to see if there’s any movement from QF, or perhaps Rex, with a couple of the Bonza routes. I know that the Albury to Gold/Sunshine coast was locally popular. I even looked at using it (but their app put me right off). Sadly, I don’t hold much hope. QF pushed into the Albury to Melbourne route, resulting in Rex leaving, and the residual QF service being completely useless to most people.

 

[Saab34]

Bonza was safe, from all reports it was a very experienced culture. I think that’s where Tiger went wrong pre grounding, safety went out the window. Bonza’s check and training department was run by ex QF 737 folks who came out of retirement to run this. I met one of them on my flights. Amongst Virgin, Cathay pilots and others from overseas, it was a safe operation.

They took a new wave of new type rated ex GA pilots last December, looks like free type ratings for those guys.

 

[jase05]

I know that the Albury to Gold/Sunshine coast was locally popular

My parents live over that way and used Bonza twice to go Albury to Sunshine Coast return to see Mums sister and they said flights were fully booked. They don’t use apps so I booked it for them. Qantas charges about $700 each return via SYD from Albury whereas they got Bonza for half that. They live about halfway between Albury and Canberra so they might look at leaving out of CBR with VA which is competitively priced

 

[Saab34]

Pilots won’t have issues getting jobs if they wish to work for remaining operators. Jetstar has already setup a dedicated careers page, and according to a LinkedIn Post, Virgin Management are contacting all Pilots.

Certainly a very valuable group of people that the majors would like to bring in.

 

[exceladdict]

GDS doesn't concern me and most of the general public. I get a small airline like Bonza not wanting to sign up to the cost of that. Problem is it excludes a lot of people from knowing you even exist as an option on a route. As I remember JetGo having the same issues, had great direct flights from Melbourne to Dubbo for $200, but if you ever searched on say Webjet to see all the options you only got the $500 connection options with Qantas, Virgin, Rex. So they were doing themselves out of revenue. And probably had to spend more on marketing to get their routes known.

But as a general punter I hate booking flights on my phone with any carrier. I always do it on computer.

Without a website point of sale I wasn't going to be a customer. I am in my late 30's and do a lot of other stuff by phone/app.

A relevant marketing concept would be mental and physical availability. In other words, when someone is making a decision to buy a product in your category, you need to both come to mind and be available (in an acceptable way) at the place where the consumer is buying the product.

For example, if most people buy that particular item at a supermarket, you're going to struggle if you're not on the shelf. The google flights / skyscanner / whatever equivalent is a massive miss.

I also recently saw a joke about the 'big internet' (a computer) and 'little internet' (your phone): for milennials and up, many (and particularly, more serious) purchases require the (more serious) 'big internet'. It seems like the little internet wasn't enough for bonza.

 

[jrfsp]

Meanwhile "Bonza’s parent company 777 Partners paid $30.9 million AUD to Premier League club Everton hours after the budget airline’s fleet was repossessed"

Bonza owner pays Everton Football Club $30m after fleet grounding

The Times reports that the Miami-based venture capital firm injected £16 million into the football club on Tuesday, UK time, while Bonza’s four 737 MAX 8 aircraft were repossessed at around 3am AEST on Tuesday, leaving passengers stranded. The airline was later placed into voluntary administration.

australianaviation.com.au

The whole setup of 777 Partners is a complete ponzi scheme and while i feel sorry for staff affected, this sort of operation was never set up with the right intentions (unlike Bain buying VA who clearly are trying to set VA up for ongoing success)

 

[flyer89]

Ah, not really. The quote from ex glorious leader was the he didn’t want the QF pilots to contaminate those from JQ.

He preferred ex Ansett pilots contaminate them instead.

 

[SeaWolf]

The whole setup of 777 Partners is a complete ponzi scheme and while i feel sorry for staff affected, this sort of operation was never set up with the right intentions (unlike Bain buying VA who clearly are trying to set VA up for ongoing success)

We'll see what comes out during the administration but, while we're focussing a lot on the business model, I suspect a lot of this has to do with the various shenanigans of their parent company, rather than a fundamental flaw in the way they were doing business.

Though obviously not every business descision was correct or every route a great choice. I do think the app-only thing was a bit silly and they seem to have realised this and added booking to their website recently.

 

[elanshin]

We'll see what comes out during the administration but, while we're focussing a lot on the business model, I suspect a lot of this has to do with the various shenanigans of their parent company, rather than a fundamental flaw in the way they were doing business.

Though obviously not every business descision was correct or every route a great choice. I do think the app-only thing was a bit silly and they seem to have realised this and added booking to their website recently.

I would disagree with this take. The parent company most certainly used financial trickery to insure themselves, but at the same time the amount of money invested to Bonza is supposed to last them X time at a certain burn rate.

Bonza very clearly blew a lot of that incorrectly and basically the parent company said, tough luck we're not bailing you out.

 

[BAM1748]

I'm appless so would have never been able to buy a ticket, maybe I wasn't this target customer hence not needing my money.

 

[dajop]

Just reading Matt’s article, and it will be interesting to see if there’s any movement from QF, or perhaps Rex, with a couple of the Bonza routes. I know that the Albury to Gold/Sunshine coast was locally popular. I even looked at using it (but their app put me right off). Sadly, I don’t hold much hope. QF pushed into the Albury to Melbourne route, resulting in Rex leaving, and the residual QF service being completely useless to most people.

Completely from memory, and anecdotal, but if you go back in time before the OOL/Flair debacle, ABX-MCY and MEL-BDB seemed to be the best routes for them if selling prices of fares were any guide. Lead in fares were usually around the $79-$89 price and within a few weeks of travel around or even well exceeding $200. I never really looked at the intra-Qld routes, but after that MEL-GLT and MQL-MCY were probably performing reasonably if price was a reliable guide, but MEL-ROK, TWB & TMW seemed to constantly sold at lower price.

Really you'd think JQ would be the only candidate for these sorts of routes, although Rex might be a wildcard. Corollary routes to the first two have seen some movement from Qanstar - QF have slightly increased capacity on ABX-BNE by upgauging to the E190 and Jetstar are introducting MEL-HVB (which is about 100km from BDB).

Of course fast forward beyond the issues in December that killed the reputation and the good will the airline had (that let people overlook the app sin), discounts only increased and sales fares on most routes went from a likely unsustainable $79 to a completely unsustainable $39.

 

[Saab34]

I would disagree with this take. The parent company most certainly used financial trickery to insure themselves, but at the same time the amount of money invested to Bonza is supposed to last them X time at a certain burn rate.

Bonza very clearly blew a lot of that incorrectly and basically the parent company said, tough luck we're not bailing you out.

I agree. The wet leasing, delayed AOC launch, delayed OOL kickoff, lighter loads, the cash was just whittled away to nothing too quick.

The Flair leases would have been eye watering

 

[DC3]

Let's say they list on the ASX, I wouldn't be buying any shares.

Prophetic indeed

 

[RSVKanga]

Will be interesting to see if anyone picks up any of the routes.

We might see QF operating more jet services to regional inland cities. Bonza likely influenced QF’s decision start their own jet services into ABX from BNE despite Bonza not flying that particular route. I reckon destinations like WTB and TMW are good future destinations for QF to fly their E190s into, replacing/complementing the Dash 8’s.

 

[3018]

I would disagree with this take. The parent company most certainly used financial trickery to insure themselves, but at the same time the amount of money invested to Bonza is supposed to last them X time at a certain burn rate.

Bonza very clearly blew a lot of that incorrectly and basically the parent company said, tough luck we're not bailing you out.

777 Partners will make a really great business book someday. There are so many odd angles to this:

• Flair involvement, and the aircraft repos they had
• 777's struggles to buy football teams - including loaning Everton 200,000GBP - apparently causing struggles on their balance sheet
• a US money laundering investigation
• oh, and the troubles they've had with incontinent cats.

No really. All detailed here.