xONEx Canada Problem

[matty744]

Hi all. Have just gotten off the phone with AA rtw desk and have come across a problem I cant seem to figure out. I originally had a xONEx booking validated and priced but made a few date changes and had to get it repriced. Rang up today only to be told that the route is now invalid as on one day I wanted to travel YYC-DFW-YYZ. The transit is legal but have been told its against the rules to leave and enter Canada in the one day and that I would have to overnight in Dallas. Have not heard this before. Can anybody shed some light on this problem??
Cheers
Matty

 

[serfty]

... . I originally had a xONEx booking validated and priced but made a few date changes and had to get it repriced. ...

Why would you need to get it repriced if all you changed were a few dates? There should have been no need for this unless:

• Originating in TC1 and travel not commenced.
• Otherwise requiring changes to the first international segment.

I have never hear of the other problem before; I suggest you ask the Guru's on the Flyer Talk oneworld forum:

• Flyertalk Forums - Oneworld

 

[Dave Noble]

Why would you need to get it repriced if all you changed were a few dates?

because it had not been purchased. Pretty much any changes before purchasing require repricing

Dave

 

[serfty]

AHa! "I guess that's what "Validated and Priced means ..."

 

[matty744]

Thanks for the replys
AA are now saying its due to Business reasons...?
I find that a weird reason and has thrown a spanner in the works for the Done4.
Cheers
Matty

 

[NM]

It may also require re-validation and re-pricing if the date changes modify the combination of flights such as transits become stopovers or stopovers become transits as this can change things such as married segments (only really affecting availability and not price or validity for OneWorld Explorer) and taxes.

As for the rule regarding not leaving and re-entering Canada on the same day, I have not come across that in any of the rule definitions I have read. In fact, there is specific notes that travel between USA and Canada is not considered as international. I would be asking them to quote to you the exact wording of the rule that is affecting the validity of the desired itinerary.

By the way, what is the point of origin for the itinerary?

 

[matty744]

By the way, what is the point of origin for the itinerary?

HeyNM
Leaving from Mel. Wish I could try and start it from somewhere else but its a business trip so Melbourne will have to do!
Matty

 

[NM]

HeyNM
Leaving from Mel. Wish I could try and start it from somewhere else but its a business trip so Melbourne will have to do!
Matty

OK, so certainly nothing to do with originating in Canada or anything like that (and I still see not issued with USA same-day transit even if starting in Canada).

So did AA provide any more information on which rule they believe is stopping you doing what you want to do regarding DFW transit?

 

[serfty]

The OP has posted this query on FT in the oneworld forum.

An interesting answer offerred is that the <Canada>-x<USA>-<Canada> routing is in effect <Canada>-<Canada> and becomes Cabotage which is apparently illegal as AA does not have Canada to Canada traffic rights.

DONE4 invalid due to "Business reasons" - FlyerTalk Forums

AA doesn't have cabotage rights within Canada; and even though there's a DFW connection, the rates-desk still views the trip YYC-DFW-YYZ as a domestic Canadian journey...

One solution would be to leave the DFW-YYZ ticket open-dated, and then call back to create a separate reservation for the DWF-YYZ sector (with reference to the same ticket number).

Another solution would be to fly into BUF (instead of YYZ), though that's a bit of a schelp, and I understand that BUF service will soon be reduced/discontinued.

 

[NM]

The OP has posted this query on FT in the oneworld forum.

An interesting answer offerred is that the <Canada>-x<USA>-<Canada> routing is in effect <Canada>-<Canada> and becomes Cabotage which is apparently illegal as AA does not have Canada to Canada traffic rights.

DONE4 invalid due to "Business reasons" - FlyerTalk Forums

So that is not a OneWorld Explorer fare rule restriction per se, but a carriage limitation similar to QD107/108 between LAX and JFK. The same restriction would apply on any ticket/fare and not just for OneWorld Explorer.

 

[dot]

a bit OT I know - so I appologise now...

The OP has posted this query on FT in the oneworld forum.

An interesting answer offerred is that the <Canada>-x<USA>-<Canada> routing is in effect <Canada>-<Canada> and becomes Cabotage which is apparently illegal as AA does not have Canada to Canada traffic rights.

DONE4 invalid due to "Business reasons" - FlyerTalk Forums

Interestingly, in the Wikipedia article on Cabotage, it states

Australia and Chile[4] allow passenger airlines owned by foreign entities to operate domestic flights.

Is this really true? I thought it was not allowed in Australia - otherwise we would have SQ and NZ offering domestic seats. Wasn't that the whole point of NZ buying AN and AirSkyWest owning 51% of Lion Air Australia in it's partnership with Lion Air Indonesia?

 

[matty744]

So that is not a OneWorld Explorer fare rule restriction per se, but a carriage limitation similar to QD107/108 between LAX and JFK. The same restriction would apply on any ticket/fare and not just for OneWorld Explorer.

Yes so it would seem although AA are still sticking to their business reason when I asked them about it. Hurry up and let Westjet into Oneworld and fill that Canada gap!
Slightly OT Im starting to rethink this ticket now as I just got a new price back taking these two flights out of the ticket and the price only dropped $210. Considering that the cheapest Y ticket i could find was $300 (and that was direct YYC-YYZ) it seems im getting the raw end on this deal. I would think 2x J flights would drop the price down more than enough to cover a Y transfer or am I dreaming??

 

[NM]

Yes so it would seem although AA are still sticking to their business reason when I asked them about it.

Its strange that they don't just tell you the real reason instead of trying to fob it off as a "business reason". Its not as if you would not understand the real reason if it was explained clearly.

Slightly OT Im starting to rethink this ticket now as I just got a new price back taking these two flights out of the ticket and the price only dropped $210. Considering that the cheapest Y ticket i could find was $300 (and that was direct YYC-YYZ) it seems im getting the raw end on this deal. I would think 2x J flights would drop the price down more than enough to cover a Y transfer or am I dreaming??

The fare is based on flying between and within a certain number of continents, not based on the sum of individual flights. So the base fare will not change at all, only the taxes will change by dropping two intra-continental segments.

Is it not possible for you to overnight in DFW?

 

[Dave Noble]

Yes so it would seem although AA are still sticking to their business reason when I asked them about it. Hurry up and let Westjet into Oneworld and fill that Canada gap!
Slightly OT Im starting to rethink this ticket now as I just got a new price back taking these two flights out of the ticket and the price only dropped $210. Considering that the cheapest Y ticket i could find was $300 (and that was direct YYC-YYZ) it seems im getting the raw end on this deal. I would think 2x J flights would drop the price down more than enough to cover a Y transfer or am I dreaming??

You only would need to take 1 flight out and purchase 1 flight. The fare will not change because of it

Could you not spend the night in the US before heading into Canada again

Also, you could try getting the ticket issued with different dates for the 2 flights and then, once underway, changing the date of the US-CA flight; that might work; admittedly you may still need to overnight in the USA if it fails

Dave

 

[matty744]

The fare is based on flying between and within a certain number of continents, not based on the sum of individual flights. So the base fare will not change at all, only the taxes will change by dropping two intra-continental segments.

Is it not possible for you to overnight in DFW?

Right that makes sense now. I guess i was hoping the price drop would at least cover a YYC-YYZ airfare. Looking at our schedule we have to make a night time function in toronto that night so not possible. Think our company travel agent is going to have a crack at working out alternatives.
Thanks for the help guys.

 

[NM]

you can always use the OneWorld Explorer to get you YYC-DFW then a surface segment to YYZ and pick it up from there. Or surface segment YYC-DFW and OneWorld Explorer for the DFW-YYZ.

So you can find the cheapest option of a separate flight of YYC-YYZ, YYC-DFW or DFW-YYZ.