Why a $75 QANTAS fare is better value than a $55 DJ Fare

[JohnK]

[MOD - New thread created to discuss topic at hand]

I would not say they are matching DJ, $75 for BNE to SYD is a big premium to DJ's $55.

And also not wise to compare LCC prices with full service carrier. Yes some people (perhaps most people) may not need them but $10 for luggage, $5 for meal, $7 for a beer, $7 for another beer etc.

How does that $75 compare to the $55 now?

 

[anat0l]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

And also not wise to compare LCC prices with full service carrier. Yes some people (perhaps most people) may not need them but $10 for luggage, $5 for meal, $7 for a beer, $7 for another beer etc.

How does that $75 compare to the $55 now?

Considering the absolute swathe of people who scored status matches with DJ of recent, they would get all of those for free. In the case of meal and refreshments, they can have that in the lounge prior and some of them will be given these complimentary due to their status and/or op-up to PE.

But apples with apples (i.e. no status with no status) then we're back to your valid point.

 

[straitman]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

And also not wise to compare LCC prices with full service carrier. Yes some people (perhaps most people) may not need them but $10 for luggage, $5 for meal, $7 for a beer, $7 for another beer etc.

How does that $75 compare to the $55 now?

Considering the absolute swathe of people who scored status matches with DJ of recent, they would get all of those for free. In the case of meal and refreshments, they can have that in the lounge prior and some of them will be given these complimentary due to their status and/or op-up to PE.

But apples with apples (i.e. no status with no status) then we're back to your valid point.

... and on most occasions you pay for the beer on both carriers so that part of the comparison is irrelevant.

 

[RB]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

And also not wise to compare LCC prices with full service carrier. Yes some people (perhaps most people) may not need them but $10 for luggage, $5 for meal, $7 for a beer, $7 for another beer etc.

How does that $75 compare to the $55 now?

John as a regular on this route perhaps you can broaden my knowledge (I never fly intracity). Do the masses drink multiple beers on the 1.5 hr flight & do you feel that the provision of a meal is an absolute necessity?

 

[anat0l]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

John as a regular on this route perhaps you can broaden my knowledge (I never fly intracity). Do the masses drink multiple beers on the 1.5 hr flight & do you feel that the provision of a meal is an absolute necessity?

From my experience on the route, on QF at least, when the beer and wine is free people do take advantage of it. The average is probably between 1.2 - 1.8 drinks per (legal) person on board. Surprisingly, a good proportion also eat the food (of course, some may grimace in doing so, but you'd be silly to eat something that you make you do that when you're not forced to).

Is it an absolute necessity to supply a meal? Well, isn't that a truism - of course the answer is no... how does one argue against that? :-|

 

[markis10]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

How does that $75 compare to the $55 now?

Considering I don't drink because usually I have to drive and don't pay for baggage on either airline if I have any, that just leaves a meal as a difference, and I am yet to have a meal worth $20 on QF. Both flights earn points, both flights have lounge access, I think I would rather have that $20 in my pocket, no comparison really :shock:.

 

[JohnK]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

John as a regular on this route perhaps you can broaden my knowledge (I never fly intracity). Do the masses drink multiple beers on the 1.5 hr flight & do you feel that the provision of a meal is an absolute necessity?

Absolutely. I constantly see people asking for a second beer or a second wine. On slow BNE-SYD flights (not speed slow ) I have had a 3rd drink. But that was in my younger days.

As for dinner it all depends. I leave work ~4:00pm and get to the airport ~5:30-6:00pm for a 7:15pm flight BNE-SYD in summer and 8:15pm in winter. This flight gets in to SYD at 9:50pm. I am usually not home until close to 11:00pm. So dinner on the plane is nice. I don't class the snacks provided in the lounge as dinner.

Considering I don't drink because usually I have to drive and don't pay for baggage on either airline if I have any, that just leaves a meal as a difference, and I am yet to have a meal worth $20 on QF. Both flights earn points, both flights have lounge access, I think I would rather have that $20 in my pocket, no comparison really :shock:.

To each their own. I have difficulty trying to work out the exact value I get out of a QF flight but it is a lot more than just the $20 difference in airfare.

- Check in luggage and most times from SYD it is >30kgs (DJ + $10)
- A couple of soft drinks or a juice (DJ + $6) or a couple of beers (DJ + $14)
- Dinner (DJ + $5)
- Frequent flyer points (here is a real hard one to work out, $55 on DJ is worth 275 Velocity points or 385 Velocity points as a Gold which I would struggle to put more than 1 cent value on those points, probably at this stage 1/2 cent is closer to the mark but let's not split hairs and call it an even $4 where as $75 on QF is 1,000 QFF points which to me are worth at least $25 on Oneworld award and even more if used to upgrade to business)

Luggage + Dinner + soft drinks + FF points ($21 difference) = $42 difference. So to fly DJ the difference in airfare would need to be at least $30-$40. By the way QF has a lot more weekly commuter friendly flights than DJ.

Even harder to put into perspective of how much they are worth

- QF has superior lounges and access to better lounges worldwide
- Superior airline alliance (even if DJ joins Star Alliance)
- Superior FF points earning partners
- Superior credit card partners
- Superior hotel partners

That about does it for now but I am sure I can think of a lot more if I tried a little harder. Very hard to justify booking any DJ flights....

 

[straitman]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

To each their own. I have difficulty trying to work out the exact value I get out of a QF flight but it is a lot more than just the $20 difference in airfare.

- Check in luggage and most times from SYD it is >30kgs (DJ + $10)
- A couple of soft drinks or a juice (DJ + $6) or a couple of beers (DJ + $14)
- Dinner (DJ + $5)
- Frequent flyer points (here is a real hard one to work out, $55 on DJ is worth 275 Velocity points or 385 Velocity points as a Gold which I would struggle to put more than 1 cent value on those points, probably at this stage 1/2 cent is closer to the mark but let's not split hairs and call it an even $4 where as $75 on QF is 1,000 QFF points which to me are worth at least $25 on Oneworld award and even more if used to upgrade to business)

Luggage + Dinner + soft drinks + FF points ($21 difference) = $42 difference. So to fly DJ the difference in airfare would need to be at least $30-$40. By the way QF has a lot more weekly commuter friendly flights than DJ.

Even harder to put into perspective of how much they are worth

- QF has superior lounges and access to better lounges worldwide
- Superior airline alliance (even if DJ joins Star Alliance)
- Superior FF points earning partners
- Superior credit card partners
- Superior hotel partners

That about does it for now but I am sure I can think of a lot more if I tried a little harder. Very hard to justify booking any DJ flights....

I cannot agree that it is that simple John.

As a DJ Gold (the closest status to what you have with QF) there is free baggage.
Most of the domestic flights I have with QF do not have free booze so that is neutral for me also.
Unlike you I prefer the lounge meals to the flight meals so that is neutral also.

For my situation and IMHO that brings the difference back to about $20. The value of the FF points can be argued back and forth for ever and is almost totally subjective.

The other unmentioned advantage for DJ (as reported on AFF) is the ability for Gold FF to change flights for no cost.

 

[markis10]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

I would pay an extra $20 to be able to change flights when I arrive at the airport, instead I am saving $20 and getting home earlier, where there is plenty of good food and drink for free .

 

[medhead]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

For any early morning flight there is no difference between DJ and QF if you have status. I eat in the lounge in both cases. Although, I do take the QF breakfast so I can have milk for my coffee at work during the week, which lasts a day or two.

 

[JohnK]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

For my situation and IMHO that brings the difference back to about $20. The value of the FF points can be argued back and forth for ever and is almost totally subjective.

As I said to each their own. It works for me.

In my case FF points are important and I like to use them for Oneworld awards. I don't think DJ have an equivalent award available and if they do I do not believe the award would be cheap.

Also if I am not mistaken the Velocity point to point awards for a destination such as HKT (no longer available after end February 2011) is 70,000 Velocity points. :shock: That is rather a sizeable amount of points and at the very poor earning rate would take forever to achieve.

The other unmentioned advantage for DJ (as reported on AFF) is the ability for Gold FF to change flights for no cost.

Sure that side of it can be important to some people but I do not need it.

I would pay an extra $20 to be able to change flights when I arrive at the airport, instead I am saving $20 and getting home earlier, where there is plenty of good food and drink for free .

Do your parents pay for your food and drinks as well? Actually anyone who get food and drink free at home is getting a great deal....

 

[markis10]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

Do your parents pay for your food and drinks as well? Actually anyone who get food and drink free at home is getting a great deal....

No, my boss does with a meal allowance on travel days, another reason why I find DJ good value, no point paying for what you dont need or can get cheaper elsewhere.

In my case FF points are important and I like to use them for Oneworld awards. I don't think DJ have an equivalent award available and if they do I do not believe the award would be cheap.

Also if I am not mistaken the Velocity point to point awards for a destination such as HKT (no longer available after end February 2011) is 70,000 Velocity points. :shock: That is rather a sizeable amount of points and at the very poor earning rate would take forever to achieve.

Whats your point John, when QF are charging 36000 one way BNE- HKT while DJ is 30000 direct or via MEL (or PER which will still be available post FEB). $1000 of hire car expenditure with QF in a month will get you 3000 points regardless of status with QF but it will get you 5000 with DJ as a Gold member, so a frequent flyer who rents cars as part of their trips may well find a DJ redemption closer than a QF one for the same destination?

 

[JohnK]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

Whats your point John....

My point is that is takes a lot longer to acumulate points on Velocity than it does on QFF.

....when QF are charging 36000 one way BNE- HKT while DJ is 30000 direct or via MEL (or PER which will still be available post FEB).

My mistake. When I last looked HKT was 70,000 Velocity points or was that BKK.

Anyway I am not too excited about the new PER-HKT route on a 737. :shock: I would rather fly JQ! :shock: Perhaps TT.

$1000 of hire car expenditure with QF in a month will get you 3000 points regardless of status with QF but it will get you 5000 with DJ as a Gold member, so a frequent flyer who rents cars as part of their trips may well find a DJ redemption closer than a QF one for the same destination?

You have managed to use the example I have intentionally left out of my list of reasons. Not that I would spend $1,000 on car hire in a year, let alone a month, but I have found a much better FF program to credit car hire and Hilton stays.

I will say again to each their own.

I have plenty of time on my hands and I do my reasearch on maximising SCs and FF points earned. I don't always get it right, nor am I aware of each and ever possible way, but I am absolutely certain I got this one right.

If the information I have posted is useful to some people then so be it otherwise sorry for wasting your time and best to move on.

 

[bjm76]

For what its worth JohnK, I do agree with you.
And as you say, it depends on individual circumstances.

For me though:
I usually travel with checked baggage (included on QF, $10 on DJ)
I like to have a snack of some sort on the plane (helps to pass the time)
And I also like to catch up on the latest news or watch some light entertainment (included on QF, extra on DJ if the plane is equipped with Live2Air)

Also for me - I am usually travelling the golden triangle so I much prefer the widebody jets over the 737s... just a feeling of extra space I guess, another reason why I like QF. And the QF 767s seem to have more leg room than the DJ 737-700s in particular.

So I pick QF over DJ every time, to the point where I plan my trips months in advance to take advantage of the QF sales.

Cheers

 

[oz_mark]

As straitman has alluded to, one of the issues in a straight out comparison, is that the QF product varies by route and time of day. It is quite understandable that someone flying during meal times between SYD and BNE (and after 4 pm), would find that the extra $20 for Qantas is better value. I even agree with that. I personally fly PER-MEL more often, and there is no contest as the QF service is another level up.

However, get off the Citiflyer, complimantary alcohol routes/times, and things start to change. Outside meal times, the snacks are often not woth the effort (IMO). You might get a complimentary soft drink or coffee/tea on Qantas.


At the end of the day, I just look at the fare offerings when I want to fly, and make a decision on that, taking into accout whichever QF product variant I would get.

 

[yohy?!]

How is the availability for redeeming Oneworld Awards?

From the posts on this thread so far this would seem to be the only point DJ doesn't directly counter.

 

[JohnK]

Yes it does depend on individual circumstances but it also helps knowing the details.

And thank you bjm76! I knew there was another very important reason that I forgot. QF have 767s. Somedays I would rather walk than be on a 737 and hate it when QF subs a 767 with a 737.

And another really good reason. Very limited flights on the DJ $55 special. I looked at a number of dates departing BNE on Friday and then departing SYD on a Sunday.

Friday 6 May

- DJ has 3 early morning flights (6:00am, 6:30am, 7:00am) priced at $55 and then some flights throughout the day at $79.
- QF has ~17 flights through out the day priced at $75.

Sunday 8 May

- DJ has 4 early morning flights pried at $55 and then some flights throughout the day at $79.
- QF has ~20 flight through out the day priced at $75.

Other days portray a similar picture.

I am sure for others it will be a different story. If flying DJ BNE-SYD on a day trip on Tuesday, Wednesday one would probably be better off.

I just wish the decision for me was not a lay down misere and that way I can protest all the recent QF "enhancements" like others on AFF....

 

[oz_mark]

How is the availability for redeeming Oneworld Awards?

From the posts on this thread so far this would seem to be the only point DJ doesn't directly counter.

I am not sure it is the only point. A feature that seems designed for the east coast traveller (and probably mainly the SYD-MEL business traveller) is the 1000/1250 point minimum earn on QF.

It is interesting, given the QFF program is not generous in the overall scheme of things, to see it being compared favourably to Velocity.

 

[yohy?!]

I am not sure it is the only point. A feature that seems designed for the east coast traveller (and probably mainly the SYD-MEL business traveller) is the 1000/1250 point minimum earn on QF.

Which looks good at first until you compare the burn rate with qf being substantially higher

Edit... Of course jasas make the difference

 

[oz_mark]

Which looks good at first until you compare the burn rate with qf being substantially higher

The skill of marketing is in how well you organise the smoke and mirrors