Who pays if you are disrupted by corona virus

[kiwitripper64]

This question has a coupe of components.
If you organised and paid for travel AND insurance before the coronavirus outbreak, who pays for disrupted travel?

For example if you are flying MNL-AKL-SYD and arrived in AKL with a suspected sick passenger on board, would you be able to carry on to SYD? If not, who is liable for accommodation, change of flights, food etc? Or if you get to MNL airport and are running a bit late on a hot muggy day, will you be stopped from checking in if you look fevered? There is no way to differentiate between coronavirus and any other virus.I expect with the current hyper vigilance people are being stopped from flying with a common cold or even hayfever.
If you are organising travel insurance at the moment, is there any coverage if disruption possibly related to coronavirus?
Any thoughts?

 

[RooFlyer]

I don't think any of those questions are answerable to any meaningful extent, as there are too many variables, and circumstances are changing too quickly.

Re the travel insurance, it would entirely depend on the particular policy I reckon.

 

[Quickstatus]

Whats a suspected sick passenger?
There are so many variables.
Someone who is coughing , sneezing runny nose?
Unless the airline/airport officially declares a flight and sans any official direction to not continue on the journey, then I don't see any problems continuing.

 

[theblank]

If you organised and paid for travel AND insurance before the coronavirus outbreak, who pays for disrupted travel?

If the airline made the decision to delay/divert flights, then they cover that, but only to the extent of their flights, they wont be paying for third party losses like hotel bookings. Thats where your travel insurance kicks in.

Generally, most hotels, airlines etc are very accomadating in these disaster circumstances and offer refunds/rebates etc, none want to be known as coughs, and will hope you reschedule with them.

If you are organising travel insurance at the moment, is there any coverage if disruption possibly related to coronavirus?

you really must ask the insurer that question. Many post such notices on their websites.
Others say something like there is no cover "if Govt says Do not travel there ". so thats totally unambiguous.

 

[harvyk]

So, not a lawyer, read the PDS of your chosen policy...

Alliance partners basically drew a line in the sand stating that after 6pm AEST on the 31st Jan, you should have heard about it and thus no new policies / bookings would be covered.

One of the PDS's I had a read over basically had a general exclusion for epidemics / pandemics. The exact wording used by the WHO would matter because one could argue that an epidemic would just mean China is out, where as a pandemic would make all of Asia out of bounds.

So back to the original question, right now, because it's only been classed as epidemic, the routing given, I would believe TI would cover the costs, provided that airlines and hotels didn't come to the party first.

 

[Max Samuels]

This is from Travel Insurance Direct:

DO NOT TRAVEL Warnings
We all look forward to our own travel plans, but occasionally circumstances conspire to throw these plans into disarray. The Australian Government provides good free travel advice - check their advice on where you are going before you leave, and listen to it.

If they advise DO NOT TRAVEL to a country (e.g. Somalia, anyone?) or even to a region or part of a country (like the Thai - Malaysian border), and you choose to ignore that advice, you do so at your peril. You won't be covered if you go there and anything happens to you.

Equally, if you decide for whatever reason that your chosen destination no longer sounds like the sort of place you want to visit but there isn't an Australian Government DO NOT TRAVEL warning to that country or region, you aren't covered for cancellation costs simply because you've changed your mind.

For example, a while ago, an earthquake in the Tohoku region of Japan had a DO NOT TRAVEL warning for that region, and you wouldn't be covered if you did go there. But if you had planned a holiday to Osaka and wanted to cancel that because you felt uncomfortable about your safety, then you aren't covered for cancellation costs.

So it seems (for them at least) it all revolves around travel warnings.

So in the case of Corona Virus, having insurance won't help if a global pandemic is declared and governments impose DO NOT TRAVEL status. Having said that, if your ticket was with QF, for example, they would probably refund/credit you as they wouldn't be operating the flights anyway?

 

[Pushka]

This is from Travel Insurance Direct:

DO NOT TRAVEL Warnings
We all look forward to our own travel plans, but occasionally circumstances conspire to throw these plans into disarray. The Australian Government provides good free travel advice - check their advice on where you are going before you leave, and listen to it.

If they advise DO NOT TRAVEL to a country (e.g. Somalia, anyone?) or even to a region or part of a country (like the Thai - Malaysian border), and you choose to ignore that advice, you do so at your peril. You won't be covered if you go there and anything happens to you.

Equally, if you decide for whatever reason that your chosen destination no longer sounds like the sort of place you want to visit but there isn't an Australian Government DO NOT TRAVEL warning to that country or region, you aren't covered for cancellation costs simply because you've changed your mind.

For example, a while ago, an earthquake in the Tohoku region of Japan had a DO NOT TRAVEL warning for that region, and you wouldn't be covered if you did go there. But if you had planned a holiday to Osaka and wanted to cancel that because you felt uncomfortable about your safety, then you aren't covered for cancellation costs.

So it seems (for them at least) it all revolves around travel warnings.

So in the case of Corona Virus, having insurance won't help if a global pandemic is declared and governments impose DO NOT TRAVEL status. Having said that, if your ticket was with QF, for example, they would probably refund/credit you as they wouldn't be operating the flights anyway?

Yes that’s always been the case. If you cancel without that Do Not Travel warning then it’s considered a change of mind. No refund.

 

[JennyMG]

tHIS IS FROM INSURE & GO.

Each insurance policy is all IN THE WORDS. ALL travel insurance policies will have Covid19 clauses in them now.
Prior to Jan 31 (or whenever it was) many DID cover endemics, some even pandemics, but have the ability to change their wording at any time, and of course they all have.
The difference between endemic and pandemic is beside the point if they have Covid19 clauses;.

As a person who worked 14 years in the insurance industry, i can say with absolute certainty that nothing is certain. Certainly not the certainty of cover.
In fact, I have a 10 month old policy with Insure & Go, to cover my upcoming European holiday, June and July.
I bought the best cover possible. Unlimited Cancellation. This, in itself is a misnomer, not unlimited cancellation but unlimited $$ cancellation. The onus is on the buyer to read the pdf.
In almost 100% of cases, buyers will find a corona virus clause, as I did when I looked up the 'new' I&G policy to see how it compares to mine, "Excluded - any claims relating in any way to the Novel Coronavirus Covid19.'
In MY case, the conditions are much more complex. Here are some of the questions I asked and some of the answers I received. The first part of his/I&G's response:

"We are currently receiving overwhelming queries about this recent world-known health scare and the recent change in advice from the Australian government for CHINA. As such, we are only covering for trip cancellations which are directly/solely traveling to that country as mandated by the government."

(I'm guessing as of very recently they would incude Iran, South Korea, etc...)

"With this, please note that any decision to change your travel plans/cancellation to countries which does not have a "Do not travel" ban from the government is not coverable. This will fall under fear of travel/change of mind which we do not deemed coverable on the policy."

My questions: 1) Please confirm that this policy does, indeed cover us for cancellation for any reason,
"**No, only if due to government restrictions, please see response above"

2) and that 'any reason' includes this viral epidemic that may envelope us?
**Yes, you can only claim if there will government restrictions from Australian government thru smarttraveler.gov.au website which will advise DO NOT TRAVEL ban to the countries you are travelling to.

3) That if it DOES include the above, does it include cancellation MID-trip? or
**If you are already overseas and a DO NOT TRAVEL ban will be imposed to the country you are travelling to, you may cut your trip/skip portion of the trip pertaining to the excluded area.

4) does it also include medical help during the trip if we were to require it, due to the coronavirus? (because I bought my policy July 2019)
**Yes,as your policy was bought on such period that the Corona Virus scare is not yet known, we hope not but in the case of virus contraction, note that the policy will cover you subject to terms and conditions of the policy."

I don't fully understand the last #4 answer, as I think a few typos.

So basically - if you have a previous policy (pre-covid19)
You ARE covered if you are already in a banned country - for cancellation, medical, et al.
You are NOT covered if you travel NOW to a banned country, for anything related to covid19, and or any complications or cancellations or other occurences relating to it.
You ARE NOT covered if you just 'change your mind' about travelling, for fear of the virus, or for whatever reason you don't want to travel there any more - even if you had a policy like mine, 'unlimited cancellation'.
(the difference would be if you had a 'cancel for ANY REASON')
You ARE covered in all non-banned countries, for any OTHER medical / travel issues, and in non banned countries for Covid19 issues as well. AT least I THINK SO...as the last clause of that answer #4, is somewhat unclear - as befits the typical Insurance agent.
Furthermore, I can cancel whatever I want, but can only 'claim' cancellations that are non-refundable from any other source (ie credit card, paypal, booking.com or hotels themselves....and that would take some time.), AND in conjunction with that, can only claim for cancellations that are FORCEDon me, such as airline cancellations, where I can't make other arrangments, or accommodation cancellations where I am forced to cancel through the Govt. ban.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

4) does it also include medical help during the trip if we were to require it, due to the coronavirus? (because I bought my policy July 2019)
**Yes,as your policy was bought on such period that the Corona Virus scare is not yet known, we hope not but in the case of virus contraction, note that the policy will cover you subject to terms and conditions of the policy."

I don't fully understand the last #4 answer, as I think a few typos.

You ARE covered in all non-banned countries, for any OTHER medical / travel issues, and in non banned countries for Covid19 issues as well. AT least I THINK SO...as the last clause of that answer #4, is somewhat unclear - as befits the typical Insurance agent.

Correct - you are covered in any country - banned or not banned - as you purchased your policy before Covid19 'was known'. They are saying they 'hope you won't get sick', but if you do, you are covered subject to the terms and conditions of the policy.

 

[JennyMG]

Correct - you are covered in any country - banned or not banned - as you purchased your policy before Covid19 'was known'. They are saying they 'hope you won't get sick', but if you do, you are covered subject to the terms and conditions of the policy.

Yes and no, they said that people are ONLY covered for Covid19 infection related claims if they are ALREADY in the banned country, (or in a non banned country.) If you GO to a country, now banned, say...Italy in July,....and contract the virus, then no Covid19 related claims are covered. (because it's been banned!) EVEN IF the policy was purchased prior to the 'known' event, as it is now banned by the Govt.
Of course, NON Covid19 medical emergencies are covered in any country, banned or non banned. And THAT is the part that is not succinctly put.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes and no, they said that people are ONLY covered for Covid19 infection related claims if they are ALREADY in the banned country, (or in a non banned country.) If you GO to a country, now banned, say...Italy in July,....and contract the virus, then no Covid19 related claims are covered. (because it's been banned!) EVEN IF the policy was purchased prior to the 'known' event, as it is now banned by the Govt.
Of course, NON Covid19 medical emergencies are covered in any country, banned or non banned. And THAT is the part that is not succinctly put.

That's not actually what they are saying - but i guess by implication that is the logical outcome. In their written answers they will cover cancellation fees to country where a 'do not travel' recommendation is in place. But if you were to get sick, that's not specifically mentioned in their answer. I suppose the implied bit is that you shouldn't be travelling to a 'do not travel' country in the first place, therefore you wouldn't need the medical part.

 

[JennyMG]

Well actually it IS what he said, verbally. On the phone. AFter I rang and checked.
They said if you 'go against the Government's ban' you are not covered for Covid19 related claims as it's clear you should not be going. (I gather most ICs have clauses relating to Smart Traveller and Dept. F.A.) I took that to mean hospital claims as well. I suspect it depends on who you talk to. Not everyone would suspect there being so many legs to this critter. I can spot an underwriting query a MILE off and then some.
They would also prefer you to not ask very specific questions / scenarios, like I was doing both in my call and in my pre call email. I imagine not every possibility has even been thought of yet, let alone the question of whether it would be covered. They are under the pump to work out which are claimable events ATM and how to train staff to address all the incarnations of possibilities.
Such as...what if you went into a Banned country without the knowledge that it was banned. (plenty of people are in this positon) and contract the virus.
Or what if one of your party gets sick, and the others do not. That's not clear.
Or if your transport runs THROUGH a banned country, such as a train through Italy, (let's pretend it's banned.) and you get sick, without having gotten off the train. :/

Silly questions, but so many variations...it's a can of worms. Virtually impossible to give a generic answer to the "am I covered" question.

 

[Pushka]

Yes and no, they said that people are ONLY covered for Covid19 infection related claims if they are ALREADY in the banned country, (or in a non banned country.) If you GO to a country, now banned, say...Italy in July,....and contract the virus, then no Covid19 related claims are covered. (because it's been banned!) EVEN IF the policy was purchased prior to the 'known' event, as it is now banned by the Govt.
Of course, NON Covid19 medical emergencies are covered in any country, banned or non banned. And THAT is the part that is not succinctly put.

Italy hasn't been banned. Has it?
I thought the basic premise is that if you go to a country where the Govt has said, Do Not Travel then I don't think you are covered for anything unless you travel there before the ban?
If have yet to travel and the government applies a Do not Travel then you are covered for all non refundables.

 

[JennyMG]

Italy hasn't been banned. Has it?
I thought the basic premise is that if you go to a country where the Govt has said, Do Not Travel then I don't think you are covered for anything unless you travel there before the ban?
If have yet to travel and the government applies a Do not Travel then you are covered for all non refundables.

No..sorry, of course it hasn't. It was just for illustration's sake.
yes...correct, if you go after the ban, Not covered, if before the ban you're covered for everything.
Yes.. correct. You are covered for all non refundables, because it wasn't your choice.
n.

 

[prozac]

Columbus Direct have indicated if your insurance was taken out before 31 January then they will cover you. However there are caveats, for instance.

There is no cover under any section of a policy if you remain in a region or country for which the DFAT advisory rose to Level 4 (Do Not Travel) while you were there, if you were able to leave but instead opted to remain.

 

[k_sheep]

I've got a trip departing MNL 18th April, to ORD via IST. So far Turkish isn't offering refunds; currently so far I can't get to MNL (they are banning any country with community transmission), and then presumably the IST-ORD flights will be canned too. Luckily I was waiting for sales before booking connecting flights, and I hadn't booked any non-refundable hotels.

I've got time so am sitting quietly waiting. But if it comes down to it, I suspect my annual leave could easily be cancelled by work so I can claim losses via travel insurance (annual plan, paid in December, so should hopefully be claimable).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I've got a trip departing MNL 18th April, to ORD via IST. So far Turkish isn't offering refunds; currently so far I can't get to MNL (they are banning any country with community transmission), and then presumably the IST-ORD flights will be canned too. Luckily I was waiting for sales before booking connecting flights, and I hadn't booked any non-refundable hotels.

I've got time so am sitting quietly waiting. But if it comes down to it, I suspect my annual leave could easily be cancelled by work so I can claim losses via travel insurance (annual plan, paid in December, so should hopefully be claimable).

Per this thread: {prem fare gone}: Tk: Mnl - ord/nyc/bos/mia/iad/iah J-$1400 - Page 5 - FlyerTalk Forums (see last post), TK is offering to change free of charge. That might actually be a benefit in the long run if fares spike once the situation returns to normal.

 

[k_sheep]

Plus fare difference, which is considerable! 3x the price paid for me.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Plus fare difference, which is considerable! 3x the price paid for me.

Ah We have similar bookings but exDPS. Price has held steady at AUD3500 return to JFK including stopovers in IST.