Which AFFer has flown on the greatest number of mainland Chinese airlines?

[Melburnian1]

There has been a growing number of mainland Chinese airlines operating to and from Oz.

China Southern, China Eastern and Air China (not to be confused with Taiwan's China Airlines) may have been the originals but they have been joined by the likes of Hainan Airlines, Xiamen Airlines and Capital Airlines to name some.

Which AFF believes they may have flown on the greatest number of mainland Chinese airlines?

Many of the more recently introduced routes such as to and from XIY may not operate daily - yet.

Please rate each out of 10: this is subjective but can be a good guide. Class of travel you frequent would also be handy. Many thanks.

 

[seanpodge]

Air China (13 flights)
China Southern (7)
China Eastern (4)
Shanghai Airlines (2)
Grand China Air/HNA (2)
Juneyao Airlines (2)

plus China United Airlines (1) coming early next month. So in total, six carriers flown with one coming up. All domestic flights. 5 sectors in business, the rest down the back.

As for ranking them, I don't think there's much need for great detail. They're all pretty much the same in terms of on board product. Food, FAs, IFE et al would be near interchangeable except for the branding. Nothing either brilliant or terrible. Pretty much 6 or 7 out of 10 across the board. The lounges struggle to be any better than the terminal across the board.* The biggest enhancement they could make is to finally force the CAAC to get rid of the phone ban. Basically, ignoring any FF points issues, you should just choose on price and schedule.

*With the quite honourable exception of the CA International lounge at PVG. But I've only ever been in there when flying SQ.

 

[lowan74]

I've flown on the following Mainland airlines in the past 2-1/2 years, below is a list with a one-line summary about each of them (all flights in Y except for 1 CA flight in F)


Air China, 63 flights, 99145km. Solid but dull carrier. 62 flights in economy, 1 in first. 6/10, good English speaking capabilities.


China United Airlines. 22 flights in economy, 11965km. 3/10, Generally awful airline, no legroom, very often late, very primitive terminal in Beijing (Nanyuan airport)


Hainan Airlines, 16 flights, 21903km. 8/10, Nicest mainland airline to fly, better legroom and food. My carrier of choice when not considering status. Great terminal in Beijing, but international connections through other cities (ie Xi'an) very confusing.


China Eastern, 15 flights, 18612km. 5/10, Feels like an LCC (but with food and drink) all round. I try to avoid them.


China Southern, 10 flights, 18917km. 7/10, Much more global standard of service, modern planes. Guangzhou airport difficult to transit through.


Dalian Airlines, 5 flights, 5465km. 6/10, Subsidiary of Air China, flights identical on board to Air China


Xiamen Airlines, 4 flights, 4128km, 5/10, 787 interiors nice, connections through Xiamen very coughbersome and confusing. Food OK


Shandong Airlines, 3 flights, 1638km, 6/10, Subsidiary of (and very similar to) Air China. Food OK


Tianjin Airlines, 2 flights, 762km, 5/10, Terrible legroom


China Xinhua Airlines, 1 flight, 2437km, 7/10, similar to Hainan airlines for 737 services


Hongtu Airlines, 1 flight, 1569km, 3/10, NO legroom, poor services, poor food, not recommended


Beijing Capital Airlines, 1 flight, 562km, 5/10, Very tight seating, operates from Hainan Airlines terminal which is very convenient


Qingdao Airlines, 1 flight, 538km, nothing notable, can't really remember much about this flight.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Interesting comment about Hainan Airlines. Aren't they now also a point/SC earner for VA? Promising, if yes.

 

[lowan74]

Interesting comment about Hainan Airlines. Aren't they now also a point/SC earner for VA? Promising, if yes.

I saw that announcement last week. I haven't flown VA for several years, but actually prefer Hainan Airlines to VA. Their longhaul 787s fly nonstop from Beijing to some unusual destinations in North America, and have good legroom (I'm quite tall). I have flown their A330 from Xi'an to Paris and it was good. Recently they have been offering some amazing fares in J from SYD to PEK via Xi'an or Changsha, at around AU$2K roundtrip. I considered using these flights for some elderly relatives to come to Beijing, but the transfers at those airports can be very confusing. With younger, more frequent travellers, I would recommend people to give it a go.

 

[Melburnian1]

seanpodge and lowan74, amazing responses.

What makes the transfers from international to domestic (or vice versa) at airports such as Guangzhou, Xiamen and Xi'an "confusing?" Poor signage, unhelpful staff, long walks, tedious security checks excessive queues or something else?

And if you have travelled on mainland China's high speed trains on routes such as those internal Chinese ones you have mentioned above, how, in comparison, would you rate the high speed rail experience? A couple of my friends (where possible and practical) avoid mainland Chinese domestic flights due to alleged incessant delays and enjoy the CBD to CBD high speed rail experience.

On some other review sites, Hainan Airlines also seems to get fairly good responses so it is encouraging that VA has partnered with it if HU understands the concept of 'service. '

 

[lowan74]

seanpodge and lowan74, amazing responses.

What makes the transfers from international to domestic (or vice versa) at airports such as Guangzhou, Xiamen and Xi'an "confusing?" Poor signage, unhelpful staff, long walks, tedious security checks excessive queues or something else? '

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Some of the more difficult connections i've had have largely been due to confusing signage and limited English being spoken, which sometimes results in inconsistent advice being given (in English) by airline staff.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Xiamen Airlines was quite difficult - I bought a roundtrip ticket from Beijing to Taipei via Xiamen, and on both occasions when checking in, the staff could only check me on for the first leg and then I had to recheck in Xiamen for the connecting flight. The connections were all 3 hour connections, and while I understand there are needs to clear the luggage separately, the counter at Xiamen only opens to check in the next flight 2 hours before departure. The signage was very confusing there. The laughable moment about this was that as soon as I was on the next flight, Xiamen played a promotional video about how SkyTeam offers "seamless transfers".[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Xi'an and Changsha are difficult due to the language barrier. The facilities in these airports are much more Chinese focussed too (eg. I went to one toilet with 6-7 squats and only 1 western toilet in one of the terminals (can't recall which one).[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Guangzhou is much better for signage and descriptions, and is contained in one building, but is huge and this itself makes it challenging to get around. As there are lots of international flights arriving here, the immigration queues can also be long and slow.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Security checks at all these Mainland airports are painful, but you get used to it. I really enjoy going to different places and trying different airlines so see it all as a bit of adventure, whereas its easy to see how others could get very frustrated with it. My Chinese language skills are very limited.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]When in Beijing my place is near the airport so I prefer flying to trains. Its between an hour and 90 mins to get to the High speed rail stations by car, but 15 mins to Capital airport. The high speed trains are good, but for trips over 600km they still tend to not feel that fast. Benefits are that you can use the phone/devices etc and carry liquids and first class seats are very affordable. Many of my colleagues prefer the trains. They tend to be much more reliable all year round, while the flights get affected by adverse weather (particularly in the summer).[/FONT][/FONT]
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[Melburnian1]

...[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]When in Beijing my place is near the airport so I prefer flying to trains. Its between an hour and 90 mins to get to the High speed rail stations by car, but 15 mins to Capital airport. The high speed trains are good, but for trips over 600km they still tend to not feel that fast. Benefits are that you can use the phone/devices etc and carry liquids and first class seats are very affordable. Many of my colleagues prefer the trains. They tend to be much more reliable all year round, while the flights get affected by adverse weather (particularly in the summer).[/FONT][/FONT]

lowan74, another great contribution.

From the small sample I have asked, you seem to be in the minority, as all I've spoken with vastly prefer the high speed trains (for distances of under about 1500 kilometres) to flying, as they tell me the trains are just so much more reliable (as you state) and deliver them often much closer to business districts or key tourist sites.

 

[lowan74]

lowan74, another great contribution.

From the small sample I have asked, you seem to be in the minority, as all I've spoken with vastly prefer the high speed trains (for distances of under about 1500 kilometres) to flying, as they tell me the trains are just so much more reliable (as you state) and deliver them often much closer to business districts or key tourist sites.

A lot of my friends do think that I'm crazy for flying rather than taking the train. They are usually the ones who travel between capitals frequently.

A lot of my travel, however, is to destinations not served by high speed rail. A lot of them are reasonably obscure destinations, which is why I have needed to travel on so many different airlines. China United Airlines flys to a lot of my common destinations from Beijing, while other airlines don't. They are not a nice airline, but they are the only way to get there quickly.

 

[Melburnian1]

In terms of new information on a difficult subject, lowan74's contribution is one of the best ever that I have read on this site.

10/10 for research and experience. Hopefully very useful for many AFFers although my preference would be to travel by train and see the scenery, and arrive in the CBD without having to negotiate an airport. The trains by and large after the one terrible incident seem to have regained a very good safety record and they beat the Chinese airlines for reliability and punctuality hands down.

Boeing and Airbus must wonder how many more planes they could have sold had it not been for the huge Chinese program of high speed rail construction that has revolutionised travel in a growing list of countries - but not backward Australia.

 

[seanpodge]

seanpodge and lowan74, amazing responses.

What makes the transfers from international to domestic (or vice versa) at airports such as Guangzhou, Xiamen and Xi'an "confusing?" Poor signage, unhelpful staff, long walks, tedious security checks excessive queues or something else?

And if you have travelled on mainland China's high speed trains on routes such as those internal Chinese ones you have mentioned above, how, in comparison, would you rate the high speed rail experience? A couple of my friends (where possible and practical) avoid mainland Chinese domestic flights due to alleged incessant delays and enjoy the CBD to CBD high speed rail experience.

On some other review sites, Hainan Airlines also seems to get fairly good responses so it is encouraging that VA has partnered with it if HU understands the concept of 'service. '

Have only done domestic to international transfers at PEK and PVG (on separate tickets) so I can't and won't comment on that issue.

Where I live (Harbin), the HSR isn't as useful as it could be in other parts of China. I mainly fly HRB-PEK and sometimes HRB-PVG. While we have HSR from Harbin to Dalian which is good, the track between Shenyang and Beijing hasn't been built to HSR yet (apparently it is under construction now). That means that the current fastest train service is G381 (Beijing South to Harbin West) at 7 hours and 6 minutes. At that length it is not competitive with sub two hour flights (particularly when G381's cheapest ticket is ¥541.5, which can often be matched if not beaten by airlines). There are overnight trains, but they often arrive too late into Beijing to connect to early morning flights at PEK.

The HSR trains themselves are grand. The cheap seats are like larger Y airline seats but with more legroom and better recline. The food is overpriced and rubbish but you can (and should) always bring your own. One note is that many of the HSR trains don't stop at the "central" station of the city. To take the G381 example, both Beijing South and Harbin West are a bit out from the centre of town (although still closer than their city's airports, esp. Harbin).

When the HSR is built all the way to Beijing, I'll give it another look, but for now, I'll be flying to Beijing. I'm not sure if we'll ever get a competitive train to Shanghai. The rest of my train travel is to places north of Harbin, which are not going to be flooded with either flights or HSR services anytime soon.

 

[Simo]

My guess with Chinese carriers expect the unexpected in all ways of the flight

 

[takenbyaliens]

Just a note re HSR. My apartment when I am in Beijing is a short subway to Beijing South Railway and I can be on a HSR in about an hour from leaving home. To get to the airport and allow 2 hrs clear time for security etc means around 4hrs min. So I m already 3 hrs ahead.. HSR seats etc very comfortable and leg room space excellent. Food yes is terrible and overpriced but always take my own. So for trips to Shanghai, Suzhou, Hangzhou, Yiwu that are all around 6 hrs roughly, I take the train.

 

[TonyHancock]

All of my mainland carrier flying has been within China and has been with only four airlines...as follows:

Airline	Distance	Amount
China Eastern	12.270 mi	19
Shanghai Airlines	8.966 mi	13
China Southern	2.261 mi	4
Air China	2.138 mi	2

My internal travel invariably begins from Shanghai, and my work colleague there has status with MU so I tend to fly MU and its subsidiary FM most of the time. All but two of these flights were in Y, with one J and and one Y+.

I have no Scaryteam status so rely on my colleague, or PP, for lounge access. MU appears to look after its, and presumably ScaryTeam, Elites reasonably well. My colleague receives slippers/newspaper/water/blanket and a personal greeting that does not appear to be as robotic as the CX greeting to OWE's. I would disagree with the comment that MU appears to be LCC like, I have never found it so. PB works well, and onboard service is comparable to QF Domestic Y in my experience.

My inclination is to continue to fly to PVG via HKG with CX. This will almost without exception be in Y+. OW status serves me well on this route.

I have just applied for a status match with CZ so it will be interesting to see any differences in service if it eventuates.

If HST is an option and viable from a time perspective I would definitely take it. The delays when flying in China can be dreadful.

 

[Seat 1A]

I have flown most Chinese airlines listed in this thread and others, by far Hainan is best. T1 Beijing is just for them. Their 787/9 is roomy and a preferred airline for my travel. Have been travelling to China since 1987, currently commuting monthly and do up to 10 internal flights per month but prefer high speed rail. APEC Card can save me up to 40 minutes at some airports - BJS, PVG

 

[The Beast]

A tip for those flying with China Southern. They are part of Skyteam. If you have premium status with another airline (I am QFF Gold), Delta usually offer a 3 month status match. Delta are also part of Skyteam, so getting the match obtained better seats for us in China Southern Y class. It also got us access to their lounges. Entry into international lounges was smooth, domestic lounges seemed hesitant, but in each case we were also admitted. By international standards the lounges weren't wonderful, but they were considerably better than being in the general public areas of most terminals.

 

[Seat 1A]

I have flown most Chinese airlines listed in this thread and others, by far Hainan is best. T1 Beijing is just for them. Their 787/9 is roomy and a preferred airline for my travel. Have been travelling to China since 1987, currently commuting monthly and do up to 10 internal flights per month but prefer high speed rail. APEC Card can save me up to 40 minutes at some airports - BJS, PVG

And to add the flight delay data just released shows only 71% of Chinese flights leave on time, mostly due to air traffic control and military reasons. There also seems to be a war between PVG and HKG, hardly ever get a CX flight leaving on time from PVG

 

[BjJames]

I have been doing business in China for 17 years and living there (Beijing) for ten years, and have lost count of the flights and carriers I have done on Chinese carriers, although lowan74 is probably a very long way ahead of me - in fact he has racked up a truly amazing array of flights!

I agree with the general comments of lowan74 and seanpodge. I would rank Hainan Airines as the "best" for cabin product and technical delivery, with China Southern a little behind. Air China is consistent, but that doesn't say much. For the others, they are all probably as mediocre as each other (but aren't most domestic carriers anywhere?) with inconsistency being their main negative: sometimes the service can be fairly good!

One point to remember is that on-time performance is fairly bad across the book, but this is largely the result of inflexible air traffic control whch is dictated to by the military. Weather conditions can often play havoc also.

For flights less than say 2 hours, high speed rail is often a good option - though it needs to be rememberd that it is not often CBD to CBD, because the HSR stations are usually some way out of town, perhaps not as far as the airports - but it is still not "CBD" (and in many cities "CBD" is not a defined area in any case - it depends where you wish to go to do what you need to do).

For technical competence, I have no major issues with Chinese airlines' performance. The fleets are relatively new Boeing and Airbus metal, and the crews seem OK (with a few airlines even having the occasional Western tech crew member).

There are still some other annoyances: the ban on telephones even in flight mode; and the common passenger bad habits relative to carry-on baggage and bin stowage; and the propensity for the locals to jump up as soon as the wheels hit the deck to retrieve their carry-ons - they never seem to hear the announcement to "keep your seat belts fastened until the plane has come .... etc etc"). It's all part of the entertainment