What's the next move VA?

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So glad to see there is still some fight going on between VA and QF!

So VA, perhaps you may like a FFers perspective as a data point.

A year ago you had a J sale which was worth buying as many as I could grab. That gave you lot's of my cash into your account for free, for up to almost a year to do as you pleased.

Late last year, you reacted to the QF J sale but lumped on a hefty premium over your earlier sale fares. The result for me was that I bought a lot of QF J fares even though yours were marginally cheaper, QF has that LTG to aim at! I bought zero VA J seats.

More recently, you had your "mates rates" sale and the J fares were actually dearer than the QF J sale fares. Result? I bought zero VA J seats even though I would have liked to do so, you surpassed the limit I have to actually buy in advance. The value was lost.

Now, I see QF have a double SC offer for everyone. The result will be me buying full price QF J fares in advance so as to secure QF platinum and step closer to QF LTG.

VA has a pretty good J product and I have genuinely noticed the crew have lost their poor attitude they had 6-12 months ago and I actually prefer the VA J product simply because the spare seats are not given away adhoc like QF does. VA are also far superior at protecting the sanctity of the J cabin whereas it's very noticeable these days that QF are a free for all with the J loo and allowing J pax an unflustered de-boarding experience is just not the done thing with QF ... however, QF are certainly winning the race to take my cash and they have done so well for the last year. I'm loving the feeling of no longer being tied to one airline, so I quite genuinely ask VA, where to now? Will I see my VA platinum (already requaled for this year), disappear in future simply because you are not keeping up with the competitor or will you come out of your corner swinging with some real competition again?
 
Its a price sensitive market and also for J the competition is really Qantas vs a dozen Virgin Australia B777's / A330's.

Are you assuming people only pay for J on transcon or long haul int? I've become very settled in with CNS-BNE J and apart from the QF seat being better, VA possibly wins on the rest of the experience and QF have just bumped that one up by $31. VA are still in with a show, but I'm just wondering if they've flagged it away as a game they're not interested in playing (given it seems pretty genuine that their overlords have been pulling the puppets strings).
 
I've also booked 3 SYD-LAX sectors with non-VA carriers because the lounge option they've decided to use in their hub airport before that sector you can't even fit into it's so crowded. WTF are they doing over there?
 
So glad to see there is still some fight going on between VA and QF!

So VA, perhaps you may like a FFers perspective as a data point.

A year ago you had a J sale which was worth buying as many as I could grab. That gave you lot's of my cash into your account for free, for up to almost a year to do as you pleased.

Late last year, you reacted to the QF J sale but lumped on a hefty premium over your earlier sale fares. The result for me was that I bought a lot of QF J fares even though yours were marginally cheaper, QF has that LTG to aim at! I bought zero VA J seats.

More recently, you had your "mates rates" sale and the J fares were actually dearer than the QF J sale fares. Result? I bought zero VA J seats even though I would have liked to do so, you surpassed the limit I have to actually buy in advance. The value was lost.

Now, I see QF have a double SC offer for everyone. The result will be me buying full price QF J fares in advance so as to secure QF platinum and step closer to QF LTG.

VA has a pretty good J product and I have genuinely noticed the crew have lost their poor attitude they had 6-12 months ago and I actually prefer the VA J product simply because the spare seats are not given away adhoc like QF does. VA are also far superior at protecting the sanctity of the J cabin whereas it's very noticeable these days that QF are a free for all with the J loo and allowing J pax an unflustered de-boarding experience is just not the done thing with QF ... however, QF are certainly winning the race to take my cash and they have done so well for the last year. I'm loving the feeling of no longer being tied to one airline, so I quite genuinely ask VA, where to now? Will I see my VA platinum (already requaled for this year), disappear in future simply because you are not keeping up with the competitor or will you come out of your corner swinging with some real competition again?

I ask the opposite question. Why to QF feel the need to 'undercut' VA when QF are 'supposed' to be the 'premium' airline of the two?

If (and that is a big if) VA can make money and fill seats without selling at a steep (or any) discount to QF, then this is a very positive sign for them.
 
I ask the opposite question. Why to QF feel the need to 'undercut' VA when QF are 'supposed' to be the 'premium' airline of the two?

If (and that is a big if) VA can make money and fill seats without selling at a steep (or any) discount to QF, then this is a very positive sign for them.

Fair point. I, however, am fairly self-centred but also pragmatic and I doubt VA use a great deal of logic in their decision making processes ... some have been absolutely staggeringly naïve, however I'm quite sure QF take at least some delight in twisting the knife just a bit (and perhaps loadings are down a tad as well, we are flying 4 airlines plus a number of minors these days).
 
I did notice VA at some point recently has introduced J to BNK and CFS - which they didn't have for years. So they must have some confidence in their J offering being good enough?
 
Are you assuming people only pay for J on transcon or long haul int? I've become very settled in with CNS-BNE J...

Unless someone else is paying for it - one's company, or the government - the amount one has to spend to travel in J on such a sector in a B738 is just not worth it. Perhaps the ultra affluent have a different view - to them it might be '10 cents' in cost - but for most of us, we would struggle to justify the huge extra expense.
 
I did notice VA at some point recently has introduced J to BNK and CFS - which they didn't have for years. So they must have some confidence in their J offering being good enough?

I doubt it. That was part of a move to do away with "J Economy" on those regional sectors including ROK, LST and BME. I think it would have more to do with trying to be seen as genuine competition for QF and also perhaps to let some FF point debt be reduced at the same time.

Unless someone else is paying for it - one's company, or the government - the amount one has to spend to travel in J on such a sector in a B738 is just not worth it. Perhaps the ultra affluent have a different view - to them it might be '10 cents' in cost - but for most of us, we would struggle to justify the huge extra expense.

That's a personal perspective that has some basis in truth but let me say I'm not ultra affluent and my company does not pay for all of my travel budget (but I admit it is fairly generous) but I've pretty much been flying exclusively Dom J for closing in on two years. You don't have to be a mathematician to look at the benefit of paying say $279 for flexi or $319 for J. Paying $650 in J for the same sector is ludicrous unless there is some alternate benefit, like perhaps DSCs. Everyone will value a flight differently, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to argue J is just not worth it when the price of J bounces about enormously.
 
To add to the OP comments, I'm a little confused on the new fare structure now the dust has settle on it a little. I suspect that almost nobody who holds any form of VA status buys the getaway fares yet I'm yet to see anything other than the getaway fare go on sale - in effect VA are rewarding all of the people of jump from airline to airline for the cheapest ticket and snubbing their nose at their bread and butter customers why fly with them on a regular basis with no reward for their loyality.
 
To add to the OP comments, I'm a little confused on the new fare structure now the dust has settle on it a little. I suspect that almost nobody who holds any form of VA status buys the getaway fares yet I'm yet to see anything other than the getaway fare go on sale - in effect VA are rewarding all of the people of jump from airline to airline for the cheapest ticket and snubbing their nose at their bread and butter customers why fly with them on a regular basis with no reward for their loyality.
They did recently have their "mates rates" sale which was exclusively(?) for J, but I agree with your observation. VA used to have flexi sales from time to time in happy hour but I haven't seen that for a long time. VA also have a long track record of taking their status pax for granted. It'll be interesting to see how they go in their new "max price, min benefit" regime.
 
I have done more QF J flights than VA J flights so maybe I am a little bias but as we are all working towards LTG VA doesn't give that opportunity.

I have a thing in the back of my mind if VA ever offer LT product I want to be over the line or close to the line...
 
I have done more QF J flights than VA J flights so maybe I am a little bias but as we are all working towards LTG VA doesn't give that opportunity.I have a thing in the back of my mind if VA ever offer LT product I want to be over the line or close to the line...

I think this is one huge thing that VA are really amiss in ignoring. QF LTG is arguably the most influential of the goalposts which is driving me to book QF J over VA J. In the back of my mind, is the thought that IF VA do eventually offer LT status, given their proven track record of ignoring their status members, what then are the chances they'll ignore previous SCs earned by their elites as well? Pretty good, I'd say. I'd be ecstatic is they started the count at day dot, but I reckon all they'd do is start from scratch the day they introduce it (if they introduce it at all)
 
I think this is one huge thing that VA are really amiss in ignoring. QF LTG is arguably the most influential of the goalposts which is driving me to book QF J over VA J. In the back of my mind, is the thought that IF VA do eventually offer LT status, given their proven track record of ignoring their status members, what then are the chances they'll ignore previous SCs earned by their elites as well? Pretty good, I'd say. I'd be ecstatic is they started the count at day dot, but I reckon all they'd do is start from scratch the day they introduce it (if they introduce it at all)

Wouldn't any kind of backdating require VA's stellar IT team to help ;) just the thought of them dabbling in this makes me shudder ;)
 
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To add to the OP comments, I'm a little confused on the new fare structure now the dust has settle on it a little. I suspect that almost nobody who holds any form of VA status buys the getaway fares yet I'm yet to see anything other than the getaway fare go on sale - in effect VA are rewarding all of the people of jump from airline to airline for the cheapest ticket and snubbing their nose at their bread and butter customers why fly with them on a regular basis with no reward for their loyality.

I am interested to know what full service airlines in the world have 'regular' sales on their flexible level Y tickets (or their non lowest level fare grouping)? When was the last time QF had a flexi Y sale? VA at least offer promo codes which provide discounts on non sale fares and this is far better than most other airlines.

Why are VA status passengers not buying Getaway fares? I try to avoid buying anything else (with the exception of the four freedom sectors a year to use my WP comp J upgrades). A lot of corporates have BFOD policies which means they are buying them as well. If you need flexibility and/or refundablility then you need to pay for those options, just like on most other full service airlines. If you do not need these, why not buy in the cheapest possible fare class, no matter what your status is?
 
I think this is one huge thing that VA are really amiss in ignoring. QF LTG is arguably the most influential of the goalposts which is driving me to book QF J over VA J. In the back of my mind, is the thought that IF VA do eventually offer LT status, given their proven track record of ignoring their status members, what then are the chances they'll ignore previous SCs earned by their elites as well? Pretty good, I'd say. I'd be ecstatic is they started the count at day dot, but I reckon all they'd do is start from scratch the day they introduce it (if they introduce it at all)

VA will not offer LT status whilst family pooling exists in its current form. It would be far too easy to obtain if pooled SC counted.

Family pooling of SC has to be axed if any real changes to status benefits are going to occur.
 
VA will not offer LT status whilst family pooling exists in its current form. It would be far too easy to obtain if pooled SC counted.

Family pooling of SC has to be axed if any real changes to status benefits are going to occur.

Not really. They already keep a record of which SCs are earned by the flyer and in fact show that on your history. It'd be possible to work it same as QF does, however as mentioned previously, their IT team would need to pull their socks up a bit. Simply saying it's one or the other also says they are choosing one type of flyer over another as their targeted preference (family traveller over solo traveller??) and I doubt they intentionally do that. Hilton just introduced family pooling and also have LT status so it wouldn't be a world first concept.
 
I suspect that almost nobody who holds any form of VA status buys the getaway fares yet I'm yet to see anything other than the getaway fare go on sale - in effect VA are rewarding all of the people of jump from airline to airline for the cheapest ticket and snubbing their nose at their bread and butter customers why fly with them on a regular basis with no reward for their loyality.

I buy Getaway fares and I suspect everyone else who is BFOD does as well. At any rate, it makes little difference in status chasing for me as my international flights (in BFOD or discount Y) alone usually are enough to kick myself over WP and Mrs G into SG.

But it is another way of VA thumbing their nose at bread and butter customers in the corporate sector, and removes fly-forward it as the primary differentiation (and motivator) to fly VA over QF as a BFOD. It is also now much easier to gain/keep status in QF as a BFOD client (e.g. 120 QF v 160 VA flights for WP). Dumb move by VA.
 
Hilton just introduced family pooling and also have LT status so it wouldn't be a world first concept.

Pretty sure I have read that pooling in Hilton won't help you to earn status, it just lets you move points around.
 
Not really. They already keep a record of which SCs are earned by the flyer and in fact show that on your history. It'd be possible to work it same as QF does, however as mentioned previously, their IT team would need to pull their socks up a bit. Simply saying it's one or the other also says they are choosing one type of flyer over another as their targeted preference (family traveller over solo traveller??) and I doubt they intentionally do that. Hilton just introduced family pooling and also have LT status so it wouldn't be a world first concept.

Imagine the outcry here by the haters if VFF started bringing in some benefits based on individual SC earn and some on pooled SC earn.

Real change will only occur when pooling of SC is 'simplified' in the same method as most other FF schemes operate.

But it is another way of VA thumbing their nose at bread and butter customers in the corporate sector, and removes fly-forward it as the primary differentiation (and motivator) to fly VA over QF as a BFOD. It is also now much easier to gain/keep status in QF as a BFOD client (e.g. 120 QF v 160 VA flights for WP). Dumb move by VA.

Fly ahead still exists, but just not on the three cheapest fare buckets. It does not technically exist at all on the opposition (except P1 on a flexi).

You get what you pay for.....
 
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