Virgin Blue DJ725 (1/APR/10), Premium Economy and Rogue Aircraft

[Deleted member 24491]

I flew DJ725 from MEL to OOL earlier today in Premium Economy (W).
Unfortunately, my name (and one other) was called just prior to boarding to attend the front counter at the Gate 13 lounge.
I was advised that the flight had been scheduled on one of Virgin Blue’s "rogue aircraft" and that we would not have PE seating, middle seat separator or Live2Air.

When I questioned compensation, Virgin Blue offered compensation against a Corporate Plus economy ticket. That is, a $50 discount on the PE ticket from MEL-OOL. In addition, they offered that my next Flexible or Corporate Plus ticket may receive an upgrade to premium economy.
As a Velocity Gold member (100K status credits in the past 8 months or so largely from east coast domestic travel), I found the offer unreasonable as I didn’t have any checked baggage and may as well have purchased a Go! ticket.

I also understand that anyone can upgrade to PE using the PE taster for only $50 (or about 5,400 points, from memory) on a Flexible ticket. In addition, I had selected DJ725 (6:30am departure) as it was the only flight listed on the Virgin Blue site that day to the Gold Coast where PE was available. I was advised that my only recourse was to put a complaint in writing to Guest Relations.

I was also advised that more rogue Boeing 737-800NG aircraft were being deployed by Virgin Blue as a cost saving measure directive from senior management. That is, planes are being deployed without Live2Air (or even, premium economy), purportedly so that when the planes are returned to lease; the hole cut in the top for Live2Air does not significantly reduce resale value.

As a long time reader, and first time poster, I’d appreciate any AFF thoughts.

 

[docjames]

Sounds less than ideal. Do you have an idea of what a Go! fare was on the day you booked the Y+ fare? If so, i'd be putting in writing that that is the fare difference refund you are seeking.

A few other qns:

- Did they put you in blue zone (for free)?
- Did they give you a free meal (a la Y+) ?
- Did you outright refuse the $50 - what form was it (DJ credit / cash / other)?

I'm not sure about the last statement, you may have seen the announcement of new a/c coming from 2011 - all with Live2Air etc so i'd say in the medium-term there will be less "rogue" aircraft in the fleet, just dont expect any of the current non-"rogue" a/c to be upgraded. One would expect what they are implying is that for fleet flexibility they subbed a non-Y+/L2A aircraft instead of waiting a fitted one. Advantage: on time. Disadvantage: no Y+/L2A - i'd suggest the majority of pax (non Y+!) wouldnt be as worried, especially on a sector of duration OOL-SYD. Perhaps they "more rogue" statement meant expect the subbing to be on "available aircraft" basis, rather than "matched interior-spec".

Post back how you go if you have filed complaint etc - just dont expect a rapid resolution as this sort of situation seems to take ages to sort out (irrespective of carrier).

 

[Gremlin]

I was booked on a PE ticket last night and also found myself in a plane without a PE configuration. Wasn't told beforehand. Was approached by FA who was apologetic, but unable (or unwilling?) to help with compensation other than to comment that "I'd probably be offered an upgrade next time I fly, but there was no guarantees".

I'm a Gold Velocity Rewards member and was pretty disappointed that:

• I was sold a PE ticket on an aircraft that wasn't configured for PE;
• That if the aircraft had been replaced (as sometimes happens), I wasn't contacted to discuss alternate arrangements, especially given my flight was delayed and there was another leaving with PE ten minutes after my eventual departure time;
• That no one at the Lounge or Boarding Gates flagged it with me and I was left to find out as I stepped onto the plane.

Normally I find DJ to be pretty decent, but I felt let down by my experience yesterday.

 

[yohy?!]

That's really poor, the majority of my flights are on DJ and I'd be majorly p!ssed if they pulled that one.

Seems like they need to make a call on PE...do they invest more in trying to sell these seats and take the idea of PE seriously or do they convert them back to Y and be done with it. What good is having 'rogue' spare aircraft in the fleet if they aren't configured to operate on the busiest routes?

 

[markis10]

DJ recently announced that all aircraft would be fitted with premium economy shortly, so things should improve, DJ shows its immaturity at times in terms of how it handles its premium customers, a legacy of the transition from LCC to "new age".

 

[Standby]

That's really poor, the majority of my flights are on DJ and I'd be majorly p!ssed if they pulled that one.

Seems like they need to make a call on PE...do they invest more in trying to sell these seats and take the idea of PE seriously or do they convert them back to Y and be done with it. What good is having 'rogue' spare aircraft in the fleet if they aren't configured to operate on the busiest routes?

Out of curiosity was the aircraft a Pacific Blue aircraft? I flew to HVB a few times last year and each time it was a Pac blue without IFE or PY, these seemed to be subbed onto dom as QF do with 767s and A330s where there is spare time on the ground to keep up utilization.
Either way P*ss poor effort on both counts posted

 

[Gremlin]

Out of curiosity was the aircraft a Pacific Blue aircraft? I flew to HVB a few times last year and each time it was a Pac blue without IFE or PY, these seemed to be subbed onto dom as QF do with 767s and A330s where there is spare time on the ground to keep up utilization.
Either way P*ss poor effort on both counts posted

I'm pretty sure mine was in the Virgin Blue livery.

 

[vt01]

I was booked on a PE ticket last night and also found myself in a plane without a PE configuration. Wasn't told beforehand. Was approached by FA who was apologetic, but unable (or unwilling?) to help with compensation other than to comment that "I'd probably be offered an upgrade next time I fly, but there was no guarantees".

I'm a Gold Velocity Rewards member and was pretty disappointed that:

• I was sold a PE ticket on an aircraft that wasn't configured for PE;
• That if the aircraft had been replaced (as sometimes happens), I wasn't contacted to discuss alternate arrangements, especially given my flight was delayed and there was another leaving with PE ten minutes after my eventual departure time;
• That no one at the Lounge or Boarding Gates flagged it with me and I was left to find out as I stepped onto the plane.

Normally I find DJ to be pretty decent, but I felt let down by my experience yesterday.

This should be covered by the Trade Practices Act under Statutory rights. That is, you did not receive the service for which you paid.
I would be calling VB and asking for a full refund or at least a refund of the difference to the cheapest
fare of the day. If unhappy with their response, go to the ACCC.
Cheers, Mike

 

[Dave R32]

I would think it is obvious that they refund you the difference between PE and a fully flexible fare that was offered on the day.

Call up Priority Phone Service on 131 875 and ask for the email address to send details to.

I had to chase something with DJ / Velocity recently and it was handled quickly and professionally.

Cheers
Dave.

 

[haydensydney]

I wouldn't be happy at all if this happened to me - whatsoever!

I would be on the phone to them straightaway. Imagine if Qantas passengers booked on J SYD-BNE flight had a equip change to Dash8 and had to fly Y, you would certainly expect they would receive much more compensation than a $50 voucher. What rubbish.

Perhaps CrazyDave can come on and let us know what the correct process is should this ever occur to us AFF folk in future??

 

[dajop]

I I would be on the phone to them straightaway. Imagine if Qantas passengers booked on J SYD-BNE flight had a equip change to Dash8 and had to fly Y, you would certainly expect they would receive much more compensation than a $50 voucher.

Or if QF downgraded someone from F to J on a 5 hr flight, say from LAX-JFK and offered a measly $200. Imagine that.

 

[Deleted member 24491]

Thanks for all of your comments.

Gremlin, I'm sorry you had a similar experience. I can confirm that my plane was also Virgin Blue external livery with blue Virgin Blue leather interior. Unfortunately, I did not get rego.

I can confirm that Virgin Blue offered a $50 credit shell towards a future Virgin Blue booking and not a cash refund, etc. I ended up sharing row 1 with two others - one booked in PE and another Velocity Gold that I understand was traveling on a Blue Saver ticket and requested row 1 at check-in.

Similar to Gremlin, I had a positive experience with the cabin crew who apologised but where obviously not in a position to resolve the situation.

I appreciate that the transition from LCC to New World Carrier takes time. I generally don't mind flying Virgin Blue but a bit of proactive customer support could have avoided an unfortunate and disappointing situation.

Dave R32, I just tried calling the Priority Number - Unfortunately, it is the Velocity Gold call centre and they only seem to deal with Velocity related issues, e.g. points claims. Thank you anyhow - I'll keep trying!

 

[crazydave98]

Gremlin and blueprint,

I am sorry to hear of your unsatisfactory experiences and agree that it is unacceptable that you were not contacted to make alternative arrangements once it was known that a PE-equipped aircraft was not going to be available to operate your flight. Also not acceptable that the Lounge or gate staff did not contact you pro-actively. This has now been raised internally, along with a request to review the compensation levels.

blueprint, when you said there were 3 others in row 1, was that spread across the entire row (i.e. 6 seats) or just on one side of the aisle? I believe the policy is that you should have had the middle seat empty and been entitled to the same Lounge entry, complimentary on-board Food & Beverage, increased baggage allowance (although noting you didn't have any checked baggage), fare flexibility/refundability as PE. Not trying to defend what occurred - just want to make sure existing policy is actually being implemented properly while the situation is being reviewed. This is because unfortunately there will be some more "rogue" aircraft arriving in the fleet without PE seats over the coming year (we are in the process of specc'ing the aircraft ordered last week which will be delivered from June next year). Also we get the situation occaisionally where we have to downgrade from B737 to E190 aircraft (which do not have wider seats or live2air).

FYI the issue with the PE seats is Head Impact Clearance - unfortunately the supplier of the PE seats (Recaro) is different from the supplier of the economy seats (Weber) and they are not working together to gain certification of our particular configuration (even though the seats individually meet HIC certification). But the aircraft already in the fleet with the configuration are grandfathered. I believe Boeing in future will not be allowing any deliveries of B737s with seats from different manufacturers.

cheers

CrazyDave98

 

[haydensydney]

Gremlin and blueprint,
This is because unfortunately there will be some more "rogue" aircraft arriving in the fleet without PE seats over the coming year (we are in the process of specc'ing the aircraft ordered last week which will be delivered from June next year).

Hi CrazyDave

Thanks for the reply. It's really good to have you on here to answer these sorts of questions - of which I have a couple:

1. So what your saying above is that there will be no PE seats on the new "rogue" aircraft i.e. just the stock standard blue seats?
2. What would the normal compensation be for the scenario described by the OP i.e. $50 refund and a "potential" upgrade on the next flight?

 

[anat0l]

I believe Boeing in future will not be allowing any deliveries of B737s with seats from different manufacturers.

Slightly O/T:

This is interesting as it also affects Qantas Jetconnect, i.e. their new 738s use Y seating by Weber and J seating by Sicma.

OTOH these aircraft are registered in New Zealand, not Australia. No idea if that has an effect.

 

[crazydave98]

Hi CrazyDave

Thanks for the reply. It's really good to have you on here to answer these sorts of questions - of which I have a couple:

1. So what your saying above is that there will be no PE seats on the new "rogue" aircraft i.e. just the stock standard blue seats?
2. What would the normal compensation be for the scenario described by the OP i.e. $50 refund and a "potential" upgrade on the next flight?

1. I'm not sure of the details - for example whether the first 3 rows will be blue or red, and whether the pitch will be the same as PE (34") or give some pitch back to rows behind - will check this out.
2. I believe that is the present compensation policy - as noted in my previous post this is now to be reviewed along with how we communicate non-availability of PE seating.

cheers

CrazyDave98

 

[serfty]

... blueprint, when you said there were 3 others in row 1, was that spread across the entire row (i.e. 6 seats) or just on one side of the aisle? ...

The impression I get from the context of blueprint's post was that three PAX were sitting in the one set of three seats (A/B/C or D/E/F):

... I ended up sharing row 1 with two others - one booked in PE and another Velocity Gold that I understand was traveling on a Blue Saver ticket and requested row 1 at check-in. ...

 

[Gremlin]

Just as a follow up, I received an email this morning from Virgin Blue Customer Care.

DJ have issued me with $100 credit. My standard practice when I travel is to book a flexible economy ticket on the return leg. Given I could have purchased a flexible economy for $164 cheaper than the PE ticket, I feel like I've still been left $64 out of pocket here.

Certainly disappointed with where it's landed. Any thoughts on where to from here?

 

[docjames]

Certainly disappointed with where it's landed. Any thoughts on where to from here?

/serious/
Is the ongoing angst worth it to chase $64?

/light relief/
That's the $64 question......

 

[haydensydney]

Just as a follow up, I received an email this morning from Virgin Blue Customer Care.

DJ have issued me with $100 credit. My standard practice when I travel is to book a flexible economy ticket on the return leg. Given I could have purchased a flexible economy for $164 cheaper than the PE ticket, I feel like I've still been left $64 out of pocket here.

Certainly disappointed with where it's landed. Any thoughts on where to from here?

Personally I think the compensation provided is cough. Passengers buy PE seating for a reason and pay a premium for doing so.

I would be spewing if this happened to me, and a $50 / $100 voucher would rile me so much that it would damage DJ's reputation for me personally. Lets hope this never happens to me!