Virgin Australia loses $69M Q3 2017

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Charging the same prices as your competitor, and delivering an inferior product is not a recipe for success....
 
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Charging the same prices as your competitor, and delivering an inferior product is not a recipe for success....
I've been noticing very cheap airfares most days but then days where they are more expensive than Qantas.

What's worrying me is that Qantas is charging $163, $194 and $237 as the cheapest airfare on many SYD-BNE flights where the final load is <100 passengers and getting away with it by still recording profits.
 
I've been noticing very cheap airfares most days but then days where they are more expensive than Qantas.

What's worrying me is that Qantas is charging $163, $194 and $237 as the cheapest airfare on many SYD-BNE flights where the final load is <100 passengers and getting away with it by still recording profits.

Another observation is VA doesn't split out Velocity revenue from Airline operations. If the profit from Velocity was subtracted from the group earnings, things would look a lot worse. Similar to Cathay Pacific where the losses would be in the billions if Asia Miles was stripped out. Qantas Loyalty generated ~350m profit in 2016, so one could safely assume Velocity does somewhere from 100-200m profit as a standalone P&L.
 
Awesome....can't wait till we just have the one big player! Things will get so much better and cheaper. ..............Oh Wait!
 
Another observation is VA doesn't split out Velocity revenue from Airline operations. If the profit from Velocity was subtracted from the group earnings, things would look a lot worse. Similar to Cathay Pacific where the losses would be in the billions if Asia Miles was stripped out. Qantas Loyalty generated ~350m profit in 2016, so one could safely assume Velocity does somewhere from 100-200m profit as a standalone P&L.

Have you read their annual report (prior to making the above statement)?

https://www.virginaustralia.com/cs/...bcontent/~edisp/2016-asx-financial-report.pdf

Try page 9 for starters....
 
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Awesome....can't wait till we just have the one big player! Things will get so much better and cheaper. ..............Oh Wait!

Yep, simpler and fairer...................
 
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Awesome....can't wait till we just have the one big player! Things will get so much better and cheaper. ..............Oh Wait!

Are you suggesting we should throw money at VA - whether by increased patronage and/or government intervention - purely so that we can avoid a monopoly?


Something tells me that every proponent for VA is just going to regard this as a "blip". There's nothing wrong with the product, the market will recover, the transformation costs will cease and new and better products will speak for themselves against the competition which is treading on tenuous ground.

I can't think of any other kind of attitude which can justify how VA is seemingly blind of any sort of trouble it may be in. They keep going on about how their services are successful. That said, everyone remembers when QF was in the soup a few years ago, but they pulled out the other side for the better.
 
Not sure how Virgin Australia can continue to hold up whilst keeping asking shareholders for money.

Whilst I have tried to support VA by flying with them over QF on Elevate and Freedom fares on short domestic sectors, I can only do so much .....

I have burned my VA points from 650K to now 150K. I don't want another repeat of Ansett ..... No good for everyone.
 
I am very much in the VA sphere status wise, but I transfer any VA points ASAP to SQ.

Am I too paranoid?

Or maybe too old remembering Ansett and Compass I & II
 
Australia needs VA like them or loath them. I wonder honestly how much longer JB has in the job before the transition... typically an 'interim' CEO would shadow for 12-14 months or so...
 
I wonder how many people have read the fiscal report which is linked above. Seems to be the loss maker is international and write downs. Other than that everything else is making a profit.
 
Well the fiscal report is to 30 June 2016. The latest report is for 9 months to 31/3/17. Whilst passenger statistics are contained in the latest report there is no break down of profit and loss.
But likely International is losing money and hopefully Domestic is making money.nn :)
 
We have heard the constant promises from JB and others at VA that 'things are about to look up', 'we have the backing of multiple key airline groups' and so on.

Unfortunately, Etihad seems to be in some disarray, Singapore Airlines is not a full 'partner' in every sense - if I recall, with Velocity Rewards, one cannot redeem a J seat with it -and the mainland Chinese shareholders are opaque.

It is difficult to see VA ever making even a small profit.

JB seems like a lovely man but perhaps he will soon be removed?

It would be disastrous for Australia to have a monopoly airline in QF.
 
Having being a " Mum & Dad" shareholder since the float of the company in the early 2000's, regrettably the financial outlook has never really improved.

Most of the VA fan boys will disagree with me, but I don't believe taking the airline more " upmarket" has been benefited the company financially.
Had the company continued to Operate solely as a LCC , this model should have provided stronger returns to shareholders, for the best part of the last few years at least without the costs involved of the so called "frills" that supposedly exist today.

VA is certainly a different airline to the old DJ days, and Yes, VA have given QF a rocket up their ( you know what) for improving both the domestic and long-haul business class product offering, which most of us here have benefited from.

Taking over TT has proven to be financially a good decision, and no doubt VA has improved consumers perceptions of what was once an embarrassment of an airline, although I'm dumbfounded that VA has not sought to expand the airline. TT is ripe for expansion, particularly on international leisure routes across the Tasman, Asia and the Pacific where the parent airline has enjoyed only limited success at best.

Having the key Large shareholders of the other airlines onboard has no doubt kept VA going financially, although the rivers of free flowing cash from some of them has begun to disepate, as to has the strategy.
 
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Australia needs VA like them or loath them. I wonder honestly how much longer JB has in the job before the transition... typically an 'interim' CEO would shadow for 12-14 months or so...

JB didn't transition with Godfrey, there were a few weeks of tense handover and then it was all done. John Thomas (one of the execs) had a write up recently about how he's going to turn VA around. I suspect and many do the transition is already in progress, has been for some time. It speaks volumes that JT's major experience is in introducing LCC-type 'innovations' to legacy airlines to improve profitability.
 
For me the problems lie in the wasted cash. I don't think this would have been enough to turn a respectable profit but for me it is symptomatic of other issues.

Until recently....
Boeing 777
Airbus A330
Boeing 737-800 and -700
Embraer 190
Fokker 100
Fokker 50
Airbus A320
ATR-72

Am I missing anything else? I know that most of this is legacy stuff to do with taking over various, previously largely unrelated airlines - but still, they took them over...now you could make an argument why each should have stayed etc but in my mind that the E190s were never capitalised on properly, the ATRs have been a disaster (almost literally), the F100s are great but will need replacing sooner or later (where is that finance going to come from?) and the A320s....well, look, the less said about them the better. But VA do the XCH/CCK runs and the A320s are pretty handy for those. Outside that, my God...such waste just sitting on the tarmac for days on end doing nothing productive...when they're not broken (hehe)

That's before we get on to the A330s. Looking at where they came from and where they are...yes service is great and it gave Qantas a good old kick up the behind, but it has taken how long to jump in to an international destination? I really don't know what could have been done differently but it seems as though the whole "let's do what they do" strategy hasn't worked...is that a surprise, considering (a) prices are very similar, (b) the experience is similar and (c) there is no formal alliance to fall back on?
 
Most of the VA fan boys will disagree with me, but I don't believe taking the airline more " upmarket" has been benefited the company financially.

I totally agree. Virgin's proposition was always as a value for money airline, they should have stuck with that and just expanded the value for money offering in the direction it needed to happen.

Cheap fares down the back where you pay for every extra and then an all inclusive comfy product up front if you want it, may have been a better option. Even on their long sector leisure routes this may have worked well. There is always a contingent of flyers who will pay for the comfy seats long sectors. Just as there are always individuals who will pay the cheapest fare no matter what and suffer with it. And selling upgrades at check-in right up until flight closure would have kept the all inclusive product selling.

Of course this would only have worked if their app was snappy and functional and allowed flyers to jump on their phone and upgrade for points or cash last minute while in the check-in Q or in the lounge. Rather than having to call a person and wait on-hold 20 odd minutes to get things sorted.

Had the company continued to Operate solely as a LCC would have provided stronger returns to shareholders, for the best part of the last few years at least without the costs involved of the so called "frills" that supposedly exist today.

I agree. I think their lounges in the major ports were necessary offering to attract loyal FFers who simply wouldn't bother with them without this convenience but the wide bodies weren't necessary nor a good move IMHO. If they wanted them for short-haul international, they could have put their delivery off for 5 full years and lost nothing.

As I mentioned elsewhere a Jetblue styled mint product in their 737's would have provided the long sector comfort FFer pax needed comparable or better to QF even if it was on a single aisle aircraft. It would have been competitive enough and different without necessitating a wide body operation and 2 J fitouts in a 5yr span. They may even have gotten away with only installing those seats on their international equipped 737's and used them exclusively for long sectors.

Taking over TT has proven to be financially a good decision, and no doubt VA has improved consumers perceptions of what was once an embarrassment of an airline, although I'm dumbfounded that VA has not sought to expand the airline. TT is ripe for expansion, particularly on international leisure routes across the Tasman, Asia and the Pacific where the parent airline has enjoyed only limited success at best.

They did and it went balls up with much fanfare and many news articles. Unfortunately the person who took over that embarrassment of an airline and redeemed it now works at QF as an executive. Whoever took over that operation is not doing a good job of it by the looks of things.
 
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