Sydney Airport curfew, mad delays, and midnight tweets to the minister

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Sounds like the airlines need to start requesting for dispensation and see where it gets them.

If then they get a no, then they take that to the media,

The old saying "squeaky wheel gets the grease" might apply to this situation.

The minister also joined us, confirmed the late night Twitter conversation and revealing he was texting his departmental head about the issue close to midnight!

So for the record; yes, special dispensation can be given to break the curfew, as long as the case is a genuine unforeseen problem.
It was interesting though to note that in the case of Marcus's flight, the minister says the airline did not make a request.
 
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That bed looks back-breakingly uncomfortable :eek:
Interesting that VA didn't request an extension, I wonder if its a very uncommon thing to do or if frequent requests fail?
 
It's interesting he said that Virgin didn't apply for dispensation and Qantas did but were denied. I wonder how often it is given - probably no point in applying for it if it is rarely if ever given.
 
That bed looks back-breakingly uncomfortable :eek:

It's not the best night sleep i've ever had and my spine feels a bit like it's on fire this morning. Still, as i said elsewhere the Lounge Angels were troopers last night. I don't think any of them went home and i believe it's the first time they've had to do that.
 
In case you're wondering this is what i did at Sydney airport last night! It's not all that often your complaints get a direct response from the Minister.

Sydney Airport gridlock but will Badgerys Creek become reality? - ABC Sydney - Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Interesting points - perhaps we can arrange for all the federal & NSW transport ministers plus all the local state and federal MP's and councilors be booked to fly home or to work on late light flights departing Sydney? I bet that would find a workable solution a bit quicker than the buckpassing of the last 20+ years. What about putting all the health ministers in public hospital waiting lists while we are at it? :shock:
 
It's interesting he said that Virgin didn't apply for dispensation and Qantas did but were denied. I wonder how often it is given - probably no point in applying for it if it is rarely if ever given.

I guess that's why VA didn't apply for special dispensation too.
 
With most major cities now onto their second or THIRD airports we cannot even get to the planning stage for our second.

Sydney Airport was built way back when a few flights a day for the wealthy and business folk were all that were needed. Today airports are bus terminals with fares cheaper than interstate bus fares. As long as MacBank keeps paying off the right people nothing will happen.
 
Does the airline offer to put passengers into hotel rooms for the night? If not, are they obliged to?
 
Does the airline offer to put passengers into hotel rooms for the night? If not, are they obliged to?

I was on a VA flight during November that turned back for an emergency landing. We were all put into hotel rooms.

However, that was on a Sunday night, and we were back at the airport by ~8:30pm. Plenty of time to activate hotel plans (by 10:00pm we were on our way to the hotel), and it was only a single E190 affected.

Last night they may have just had too many pax to absorb.

Kudos to the staff for pulling an all-nighter though. How did non-status pax fare? Were they allowed to remain airside or did they get kicked out landside or, even worse, onto the kerb? I recall that happening to a group of DJ pax many years ago when T2 "closed" as scheduled on a stormy night.
 
Does the airline offer to put passengers into hotel rooms for the night? If not, are they obliged to?

They did put a lot of people in hotels but Sydney literally ran out of them. Qantas had the same problem in Melbourne apparently. People whose flights were cancelled before mine ended up in hotels in Parramatta and Wollongong but by the time mine was nixed there was nothing left to put me in.

Actually, it would be funny to think how many people in Sydney had empty hotel rooms in Melbourne that they couldn't get to and vice versa.
 
Kudos to the staff for pulling an all-nighter though. How did non-status pax fare? Were they allowed to remain airside or did they get kicked out landside or, even worse, onto the kerb? I recall that happening to a group of DJ pax many years ago when T2 "closed" as scheduled on a stormy night.

The non-status pax were all accommodated in the lounge too. There were probably 50 or 60 of us in there before the closing of the terminal forced another hundred or hundred and fifty in who literally couldn't be accommodated elsewhere.
 
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Everyone knows that there was no way dispensation was going to be granted in this case. Too many voters in the affected areas to tick off, and this is an election year no less. Better to inconvenience ~1000 travellers and let the airlines deal with the mess.

So be it - luckily delays like this don't happen with excruciating frequency.
 
Everyone knows that there was no way dispensation was going to be granted in this case. Too many voters in the affected areas to tick off, and this is an election year no less. Better to inconvenience ~1000 travellers and let the airlines deal with the mess.

I can sort of see the superficial logic or realpolotik there - but people whom argue that also forget the negative multiplier effect of misconnected passengers everywhere else in Australia due to aircraft being late or out of position throughout the entire network, loss of business to SYD airport, overloading of already creaky nearby infrastructure like roads/rail/hotels etc, all the economic losses incurred by the airlines whom then pass those costs back onto passengers, extra fuel burnt by arriving and fleeing/diverting aircraft. Someone has to pay for all these productivity losses.
 
negative multiplier effect of misconnected passengers everywhere else in Australia due to aircraft being late

They do. But on the premise of which crowd to disappoint, it comes back to the original argument.

It helps a lot in that said person making the decision doesn't have to deal with the fall out. They quote the law and rationale; the airlines take care of the mess. If they had gone the other way then they (the decision maker) has to deal with a mess, which is not as easy as paying people off.

An affected misconnected pax or someone who is further afield affected by delays is unlikely to have a strong influence on the decision maker.

loss of business to SYD airport, overloading of already creaky nearby infrastructure like roads/rail/hotels etc, all the economic losses incurred by the airlines whom then pass those costs back onto passengers, extra fuel burnt by arriving and fleeing/diverting aircraft. Someone has to pay for all these productivity losses.

The "loss of business" argument is difficult to really take into account, because often it is actually a "loss of opportunity" rather than hard, already-established business. And with any "opportunity cost" (whether it's opportunity for benefit or opportunity for loss), the numbers can be quite inflated (e.g. the predicted usage numbers for Brisbane's two toll tunnels ;)), especially when it's put out there as a pitch more than a reasoned argument.

Until real business losses are seen, "loss of business" is at best a risk rather than a consequence. And even when it gets to that point, there will be a difficult time establishing whether it is the lacking infrastructure which has caused said losses (causality).

It's also unlikely to happen because Sydney is just the centre of, well, everything. Which of the carriers are going to reduce services to Sydney first to give themselves more breathing room in case of delays? If anything, they want to increase services to Sydney. No one can really stop flying to Sydney.

In the end, all these productivity losses are paid for by the airlines. The minister / decision maker is simply bowing to the demands of the people he/she is responsible for and is happy that there is no mess to clean up in that regard. If IRROPs cause airfares to go up, again the decision maker has no "blood on their hands". Indeed, the residents may be relieved to hear about prices going up, as it may discourage flying to Sydney, giving them more peace and quiet. Do you think those affected residents who care about the curfew and want 7 hours peace and quiet give a damn about any of the other tangible or intangible consequences you've mentioned? In a pig's eye they do.


Finally, let's be brutally honest here. If this kind of incident happened every week (God save the weather, for a start), then we may have to really think of a solution. Happens maybe twice, five times a year? No big deal (this is the "**** happens" justification).
 
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