Study on Melbourne Airport rail link

[Nigelinoz]

THE Baillieu Government will begin investigating options for a rail link to Melbourne Airport within weeks. Transport Minister Terry Mulder said the Melbourne Airport Rail Link Study would start in June and be completed by the end of 2012.

But will it ever happen!
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...irport-rail-link/story-e6frf7kx-1226024681041

 

[tuapekastar]

I probably wouldn't mind a rail link, but do wonder whether it is either practical or necessary. The current skybus service from the CBD, next to Southern Cross station takes ~25 minutes and costs ~$16 OW (not quite sure of those figures as I haven't used it for a while). Is a train going to be quicker (quite likely, but not by a lot) or cheaper (not likely). The bus seems quite adequate.

Rumour has it there is space set aside under Tullamarine for a railway station, and I'm very annoyed that I heard someone from MEL airport confirm or deny it on the radio ~6 months ago, and cannot remember the verdict.

How are the BNE and SYD rail links? Well patronised or white elephants? I have used both and they have been adequate though SYD's seems pricey for what it is.

 

[Hvr]

Wow it's not even Xmas yet and the old chestnuts are being roasted again. Even the second Sydney airport saga is getting another run.

Must be a quiet news day.

 

[sydstar]

I don't see a need for any rail link, or more importantly what benefit it would have over the exisiting service. Skybus is actually pretty good, $16 OW is a reasonable fare for a comfortable, air conditioned express service running every 10-15 minutes, feeding into a major transport hub (Sthn Cross), leading to trams and trains as well as the hotel transfer service.

Perhaps they could look at building an underground busway 'station' at MEL enabling passengers somewhere to wait, similiar to an undergorund train station. This would enable quicker loading times off/on buses, as well as preventing passengers from spilling out onto the kerb. (I've been in the middle of this at T1 before!!) - something like Sydney where the station is underground

And a sidenote....I tried the Brisbane airtrain for the first time last week, and although I was impressed with the service (and free wi-fi at the station), I don't know how it will go in the future now the government is apparantly building a busway system to the airport

 

[samh004]

How are the BNE and SYD rail links? Well patronised or white elephants? I have used both and they have been adequate though SYD's seems pricey for what it is.

SYD works on the existing network, and is slow but adequate, while BNE has a private line (for the most part) and costs a fortune + doesn’t run very early or very late.

I think the idea of a rail link for MEL could go hand in hand with an expansion of the airport, but without that, I hardly see the point.

I recently used a different service to Skybus that got me to my accommodation for $15.

And a sidenote....I tried the Brisbane airtrain for the first time last week, and although I was impressed with the service (and free wi-fi at the station), I don't know how it will go in the future now the government is apparantly building a busway system to the airport

That sounds promising… I laugh at the ridiculous prices so would be keen to save in the future.

From the Gold Coast an airport ticket costs me ~$26, yet I can get to Central for $2.50 and buy an airport ticket there for ~$14. Still excessive though, as a bus service I’d imagine would be even better value.

 

[Sprucegoose]

We will be talking about this project in 25 and 50 years time.

No airport rail service makes money, this one will be no different.

We are not HKG or SIN with the requirements and critical mass. Our PPP's are doomed, I just can't see who would finance such a deal?

 

[anat0l]

The rail link will hardly ever be competitive with Skybus on any means.

• Unless traffic gets ungodly worse (not likely), Skybus will almost always be on time. Probably no more than expecting Melbourne trains to be on time, even if said rail link was to have exclusive rolling stock and lines (very unlikely!)
• Skybus now runs 24 hours, with services at worst hourly and at best every 10-15 minutes. Neither BNE nor SYD's trains can run a schedule like that.
• Unless MEL air passenger traffic explodes, then the current infrastructure is adequate. Yes there are peaks, but that's to be expected. Implementing a service which may be potentially more expensive may not help those peaks, unless they are for the cashed-up on the company account. Example: Heathrow Express vs. other methods to get from Heathrow, which are much, much cheaper.
• I think the price of petrol might have to be stupidly high before buses become very non-competitive against the cost of running electric trains. (Ditto carbon taxes...)
• Given that the service will most likely be tendered and run by a private consortium, I have little faith that it will be effectively set up and run at a fair and attractive price.
  I guess I can't speak for this point, because almost all rail links around the world charge almost a similar amount that we do in Australia for such a service. In most of their defence, the distance from city to airport at least is more reflective of the more "expensive" price, and most of them run better hours, better schedule and better punctuality.

The only way that rail link can become really competitive is if:

• It took far less time than Skybus
• It ran more frequently than Skybus, particularly at peak loads
• It allows pax to travel to and from all stations on the Melbourne City Rail Loop
• It was guaranteed to run on time, with backup rolling stock for any delay
• It had comfortable seating, fresh cabins and plenty of luggage racks (i.e. the existing rail rolling stock will not do)

Now if this service were to cost $16-$18 or so, then with all the qualities above it may be a cost competitive option especially for CBD businesses. Of course, Skybus still offer free shuttles to CBD hotels, probably something not offered on a rail link. But the idea of being able to work and quickly jump on an airport train at Flinders St or Melbourne Central (cf. hiking it up the hill to Spencer St, although the heavy-ish law and commerce district is close to Spencer St) is attractive. Certainly, might reduce the number of $55-$75 taxi bills.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I've often preferred the train over the bus in these situations, but to be honest, I think the skybus now is perfectly adequate, and in fact a good service.

The only suggestion; a bit more legroom!! I have no option on the skybus, 2 seats to myself or someone sits on my lap! The hard backed seats are just too close! (I would hazard to think what the CX Y is like actually :shock

That said, I've never had to share, the buses come nice and frequently and are very quick. Once made it tarmac to IC Rialto in less than 30 minutes using the SkyBus. (the stars aligned)

 

[markis10]

Why not do a study on the Melbourne airport rail link and the second Sydney airport at the same time and get both chestnuts covered .

For the record there is a substantial underground section of the terminal that could be used for a rail station, it has always been a staff cafeteria on both the QF and Ansett sides, with the Ansett one having the better breakfast when I used it frequently in 89-92. If you ever noticed staff going in a door just near the bottom of escalators in the baggage hall, thats where they are going.

 

[medhead]

[*]Skybus now runs 24 hours, with services at worst hourly and at best every 10-15 minutes. Neither BNE nor SYD's trains can run a schedule like that.

SYD currently has a service like* that, every 15 minutes or better (shortest being 5 minutes)

* SYD has a curfew so no need for trains 24 hours

 

[stuartfaz]

I think a rail link would get a lot of patronage for the simple fact that it's rail and not a bus. Regardless of the merits of Skybus I'd use rail for just this reason

A rail link at Southern Cross would be welcomed by the businesses around the CBD and Docklands, I think.

 

[oz_mark]

While I don't think that there is an immediate need for a rail link, this should not stop planning for one. I think the land etc is reserved for such a link.

Some comments below:

The rail link will hardly ever be competitive with Skybus on any means.

• Unless traffic gets ungodly worse (not likely), Skybus will almost always be on time. Probably no more than expecting Melbourne trains to be on time, even if said rail link was to have exclusive rolling stock and lines (very unlikely!)

The tullamrine freeway gets congested now. Skybus is not always on time now. They advertise 20 minutes city to airport, but during peak times this gets out to 40 minutes.

• Skybus now runs 24 hours, with services at worst hourly and at best every 10-15 minutes. Neither BNE nor SYD's trains can run a schedule like that.

Sydney has no need to run 24 hours a day due to the curfew. BNE is an instructive lesson on how not to do it!

• Unless MEL air passenger traffic explodes, then the current infrastructure is adequate. Yes there are peaks, but that's to be expected. Implementing a service which may be potentially more expensive may not help those peaks, unless they are for the cashed-up on the company account. Example: Heathrow Express vs. other methods to get from Heathrow, which are much, much cheaper.
• I think the price of petrol might have to be stupidly high before buses become very non-competitive against the cost of running electric trains. (Ditto carbon taxes...)

Electricty generation has its own issue going forward, in particular getting Victoria dependence on coal fired base load stations down.

• Given that the service will most likely be tendered and run by a private consortium, I have little faith that it will be effectively set up and run at a fair and attractive price.
  I guess I can't speak for this point, because almost all rail links around the world charge almost a similar amount that we do in Australia for such a service. In most of their defence, the distance from city to airport at least is more reflective of the more "expensive" price, and most of them run better hours, better schedule and better punctuality.

Most public transport services in Melbourne are delivered by private companies, including Skybus. Like most road based transport, they get a bit of a free kick in not having to maintain the roads they run on!

The only way that rail link can become really competitive is if:

• It took far less time than Skybus

Skybus is 20 minutes, can't see rail getting much less than this

• It ran more frequently than Skybus, particularly at peak loads

A train can carry many more passengers, so don't see the need to run more often.

• It allows pax to travel to and from all stations on the Melbourne City Rail Loop

The City Loop takes seven minutes to go around. The only way of achieving this and taking less time than the skybus would be to avoid the loop, and change trains at Southern Cross/Flinders to do the loop.

• It was guaranteed to run on time, with backup rolling stock for any delay

You could never do this. Rolling stock is only one factor (and they do have operational spares now, but they are never where you need them!). You would also need a redundant line in each direction, paramedics on hand to deal immediatly with fainting passengers (happens more than you would think), ways of dealing with signal or point failures and so on.

• It had comfortable seating, fresh cabins and plenty of luggage racks (i.e. the existing rail rolling stock will not do)

If you were going to build a new line, then obviously new rolling stock would be needed. You would order some appropriately configured carriages and dedicate them to the line.

 

[joeymelb]

A rail link at Southern Cross would be welcomed by the businesses around the CBD and Docklands, I think.

If I am on business travel, I will be using taxi (or get a Silver service) regardless of the cost for the door-to-door comfort. Why would I want to save company any money? Anyone knows any website with stats on Skybus' patronage? What's the % of tourist/leisure vs business?

I gladly use the Maglev in PVG, because it is a direct service with purposely built carriage. Plus, the important factor being using taxi from PVG to the Bund took nearly as long as flight between MEL-SYD. (Also, maglev is cheap and fun to ride on... almost too short of a ride :evil: )

Lastly, if Melbourne's rail link is just going to be an extension of suburban rail line... I can't really foresee it'd do well for travelers using the red-eye outbound flights. Melbourne's rail system is not very safe at the moment... especially after dark.

 

[samh004]

I gladly use the Maglev in PVG, because it is a direct service with purposely built carriage.

I was just thinking about the Maglev, forget the study, they should just pump money into a Maglev to the city. It’ll be great

 

[oz_mark]

I was just thinking about the Maglev, forget the study, they should just pump money into a Maglev to the city. It’ll be great

Last time they did a study, they decided that any service would have to meet certain paramaters, service every 15 minutes, 20 minute travel time, and a fare of $16. (Funny how close to Skybus parameters they are) Do you think a maglev would pay it's way?

 

[anat0l]

Last time they did a study, they decided that any service would have to meet certain paramaters, service every 15 minutes, 20 minute travel time, and a fare of $16. (Funny how close to Skybus parameters they are)

Well, didn't you just say during some times the Skybus is slipping off its KPIs (especially 20 minute travel time)?

This is why I said a rail link must do better (either time or reliability), or offer something unique.

Do you think a maglev would pay it's way?

Hell no - unless there are significant ecological incentives (assuming that fuel and brown coal electricity remain fairly disjoint and brown coal electricity is "protected" more than auto fuel is). Even then, you would need silly amounts of patronage to make it worthwhile.

On top of that, the distance between MEL city and Tulla, whilst appreciable, probably is impractically short for a maglev. Now a maglev joining MEL-CBR-SYD - now we are talking...

 

[medhead]

As brown coal is at the more polluting end of the range*, I'm not expecting it to do well with carbon pricing (however that is done).

* for coal

 

[oz_mark]

Well, didn't you just say during some times the Skybus is slipping off its KPIs (especially 20 minute travel time)?

This is why I said a rail link must do better (either time or reliability), or offer something unique.

Notwithstanding Melbourne's tangled web of tracks, rail will always have a better shot than road based transport of achieving on time performance.

 

[munitalP]

Anyone who's ever missed a 7-8am flight due to MASSIVE traffic congestion entering MEL will be on the side of a rail link. The infrastructure from the freeway into and through MEL cannot cope with the volume of traffic due to design. A civil engineer friend also mentioned that the upper level causeway cannot be widened due to design and below ground essential services where supports and pillars would have to be driven.

In my opinion, MEL would be better off making the existing entrance for private vehicles and private hire cars, and build a drop off for cabs and buses off site toward Sunbry with a train system such as SIN or FRA that runs on a monorail, driver less and every 3-5 minutes.

Much better idea IMHO

 

[serfty]

And JFK ... they even have a "Kiss and Fly" area.

I don't think a privately owned airport like MEL would get this due to poor cost/benefit.

FRA was and SIN/JFK are basically run by government entities who are more into just "benefit" when the 'train' was constructed.