Stopovers and missing connections?

[Dravid74]

Hi all. I was looking for some advice from you more knowledgeable folk.

Im booking a trip to the US in July. At the start of the trip I need to go to the west coast and then later will be in new york and then back to melbourne

Best economy flights from MEL-LAX return are around 1800AUD on Qantas. When I look to fly MEL-JFK it goes via LAX both ways and costs 2200AUD (so essentially a return LAX-JFK trip for around 400AUD which is pretty decent). The fare conditions say I am allowed 1 stopover so I thought I could use LAX as the stopover to do the part on the west coast and then fly out from LAX to JFK. When I asked the Qantas person on the phone they said to do the stopover you need to put it in a multitrip - unfortunately I didn't test this out whilst I was on the phone and when I input a multitrip MEL-LAX-JFK-MEL the price jumps up to 2800AUD.... Does anyone have any advice on how I can get a proper stopover then?

The other thing was that I was thinking of doing a mini SC run from LAX-new york as I found a cheap flight with 2 stopovers on AA. The problem is that the return flight from NYC to LAX is a fair bit more expensive and then there is the hassle of collecting my bags, going through LAX immigration and then re-checking into Qantas. So having a QF flight from new york to melbourne is appealing. So Then when I do a multistop flight from MEL-LAX. JFK-MEL the cost is again around 2800AUD

So what if I just booked the MEL-JFK return flight for 2200AUD WITH the free stopover (as it says im entitled to), then just don't take my LAX-JFK QF flight and do my AA status from from west to east coast, would that be possible? Is there a no-show fee etc? And if so, would I still be allowed to take my JFK-MEL flight on the way back?

Hope that makes sense and apologies for the rambling. Your help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[bam71]

if you don't take your LAX JFK flight the the rest of your flights will cancel.......... I wouldn't risk it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

'Free stopover' yes - but it will be dependent on the available fare. If your MEL-LAX is in one class, but that class is not available LAX-JFK, you will be moved to a higher class (sub-class of economy). That will be reflected in the overall fare.

Have you priced MEL-JFK for the same day as you want the LAX-JFK? Is that fare higher than $2200?

 

[BD1959]

The other thing was that I was thinking of doing a mini SC run from LAX-new york as I found a cheap flight with 2 stopovers on AA. The problem is that the return flight from NYC to LAX is a fair bit more expensive and then there is the hassle of collecting my bags, going through LAX immigration and then re-checking into Qantas.

Hi Dravid74,

As you probably know, outbound you will have to collect your bags at LAX, clear customs and then recheck regardless of whether you're then onwards with QF or AA.

Return: as long as you meet the MCT at LAX AA should through-check your bags on two separate itineraries so you should be able to stay landside at LAX.

The larger risk (in my eyes) is if your JFK-LAX is delayed so you miss the QF94 - especially out of JFK!! To be safe I'd suggest you'd need to build a fairly sizeable connection time such that the time you'd thought you'd need to take in order to recheck bags pales into insignificance.

Regards,

BD

 

[Quickstatus]

Hi all. I was looking for some advice from you more knowledgeable folk.

Im booking a trip to the US in July. At the start of the trip I need to go to the west coast and then later will be in new york and then back to melbourne

Best economy flights from MEL-LAX return are around 1800AUD on Qantas. When I look to fly MEL-JFK it goes via LAX both ways and costs 2200AUD (so essentially a return LAX-JFK trip for around 400AUD which is pretty decent). The fare conditions say I am allowed 1 stopover so I thought I could use LAX as the stopover to do the part on the west coast and then fly out from LAX to JFK. When I asked the Qantas person on the phone they said to do the stopover you need to put it in a multitrip - unfortunately I didn't test this out whilst I was on the phone and when I input a multitrip MEL-LAX-JFK-MEL the price jumps up to 2800AUD.... Does anyone have any advice on how I can get a proper stopover then?

The other thing was that I was thinking of doing a mini SC run from LAX-new york as I found a cheap flight with 2 stopovers on AA. The problem is that the return flight from NYC to LAX is a fair bit more expensive and then there is the hassle of collecting my bags, going through LAX immigration and then re-checking into Qantas. So having a QF flight from new york to melbourne is appealing. So Then when I do a multistop flight from MEL-LAX. JFK-MEL the cost is again around 2800AUD

So what if I just booked the MEL-JFK return flight for 2200AUD WITH the free stopover (as it says im entitled to), then just don't take my LAX-JFK QF flight and do my AA status from from west to east coast, would that be possible? Is there a no-show fee etc? And if so, would I still be allowed to take my JFK-MEL flight on the way back?

Hope that makes sense and apologies for the rambling. Your help will be greatly appreciated.

The QF agent is correct. The stopover means you are departing a different day for the onward sector - in this case LAX-JFK and still have the one booking reference (PNR). The only way you can do that and remain within the one PNR is to do a "multitrip" booking. As Mel_Traveller said the reason for the fare discrepancy is the possibly different fare buckets for the different sectors on the different day of travel due to stopover. Unfortunately not surmountable via "multitrip". Have you tried a real travel agent?

Have you tried AA LAX-JFK return. US domestic fares are often very inexpensive. On your return from JFK, AA will check your luggage to MEL without you picking up luggage and give you the boarding pass to MEL. I would front up at the QF counter at LAX on your return from JFK though to show them the luggage tags so they can proactively put it in their system and get a proper QF boarding pass (not that it makes any difference but I do it just to ensure any gremlins are sorted out before I go through security). As a positive there is now an airside connection between T4 (AA terminal) and TBIT so you don't have to go through security on your way back.

Whichever method you choose to get to JFK, you will need to collect your bags at LAX (even if they are tagged all the way to JFK) and take it to bag drop area. On return from JFK you do not need to collect bags at LAX when leaving the country so long as your bags are tagged all the way to your final destination and meets minimum connection times as BD1959 said. So to go the AA routes you should probably aim to arrive earlier in the day or if OCD the day before - if you misconnect from AA to QF on separate PNR you may be on your own.

You are only entitled to the stopover if booked as such - that is if your departure on the second sector is on a different day. If you "fail" to board for the second sector when booked as a "through fare" you risk the other sectors being cancelled.

The return JFK-MEL "through" sector may have 2 very small first world (footnote type) issues - if your arrival back into MEL is time critical.
The QF11/12 transcontinental is usually punctual even in the northern winters and the connections back to OZ are usually good.
However, I mentioned in the airline delays and cancellation thread (QF subthread) that I believe QF94 may in some cases not wait for a delayed QF12 JFK-LAX because doing so may delay the QF93 departure back to LAX on the days when QF94 turns around to become QF93.
QF12 transpacific and QF16 to BNE will usually wait for a delayed QF12 from JFK, because the aircraft that flies QF12 transcontinental is the aircraft that flies QF16 and usually there are quite a few pasengers from JFK who are going to SYD on QF12 transpac.
Eastwest101 mentioned that usually there cannot be more than 2 flights with the same flight number in the air at the same time so for this reason QF12 transpac may not take off until QF12 transcont has arrived into LAX. While there is some debate about this, there is just a small possibility that if you miss the QF94 connection you will be routed through QF16 or QF12. The best way to ensure this is to book on one PNR whether multitrip or not - especially the return leg from JFK - if you misconnect when on the one PNR - the airline picks up the tab for getting you home.
The second issue re QF94 is that morning fog in MEL sometimes causes QF94 to drop into SYD and refuel - causing a minor delay (but great for passengers routing QF94 back to SYD)

 

[Dravid74]

wow thanks for the help guys.

so essentially the day I arrive I actually have to go to SFO for 3-4 days and then back to LA for a couple days and then onto NYC. I am looking at potentially flying AA now from SYD-LAX because I found this flight for 1400 AUD so a decent chunk of saving. I was hesitant at first to fly any sort of american carrier for such a long distance but I managed to find a review online that was satisfied with the experience.
However missing out on an A380 from MEL is unfortunate...

So between LA and NYC I was looking at an AA return trip - but on the way to NYC was to do a long route (2 or 3 stop overs) in order to build up some cheeky extra status credits and on the way back just get to LAX as quickly as possible.
So Quickstatus have I understood you correct? say i have a flight from LAX to melb(either on qantas or AA) and even if I have booked two separate trips (MEL-LAX return and LAX-JFK return), when i check in at JFK they will check in my baggage all the way to melbourne? but of course if i miss the connection I am screwed in that instance.

so at the moment I am thinking of making 3 'separate' booking

MEL-LAX return (either qantas or AA)
LAX - SFO return (AA)
LAX - NYC return (AA)

Is this the wrong way to go about things?
If I try to do this as one whole 'multitrip' things get quite expensive


Hope i'm making sense and thanks again

 

[Quickstatus]

wow thanks for the help guys.

so essentially the day I arrive I actually have to go to SFO for 3-4 days and then back to LA for a couple days and then onto NYC. I am looking at potentially flying AA now from SYD-LAX because I found this flight for 1400 AUD so a decent chunk of saving. I was hesitant at first to fly any sort of american carrier for such a long distance but I managed to find a review online that was satisfied with the experience.
However missing out on an A380 from MEL is unfortunate...

So between LA and NYC I was looking at an AA return trip - but on the way to NYC was to do a long route (2 or 3 stop overs) in order to build up some cheeky extra status credits and on the way back just get to LAX as quickly as possible.
So Quickstatus have I understood you correct? say i have a flight from LAX to melb(either on qantas or AA) and even if I have booked two separate trips (MEL-LAX return and LAX-JFK return), when i check in at JFK they will check in my baggage all the way to melbourne? but of course if i miss the connection I am screwed in that instance.

so at the moment I am thinking of making 3 'separate' booking

MEL-LAX return (either qantas or AA)
LAX - SFO return (AA)
LAX - NYC return (AA)

Is this the wrong way to go about things?
If I try to do this as one whole 'multitrip' things get quite expensive


Hope i'm making sense and thanks again

One other reason why sometimes a multitrip is more expensive is you get the benefit of 1 PNR

It is impossible to mitigate all the risks in travel and while this reply is very long it is important to keep in mind that when expectations are low the experience is invariably better especially when travelling.

I think your overall itinerary is correct. The other option is to make your USA port of entry SFO instead of LAX. However there is only QF one flight in/out of SFO (QF73/74) and not every day of the week. LAX has multiple. So in case of misconnection I always prefer LAX as your port of entry. Doing an "Open Jaw" ie entry SFO exit LAX would be like a multitrip and more expensive.

When you connect via SYD (MEL-LAX and/or vica versa) you have to catch a bus between T1 (international) and T3 (Qf domestic terminal). You have to allow enough time so never buy a ticket with a minimum connection time (MCT) of 1 hour even if QF sells them. Some AFF members overnight in SYD. It is more of a problem travelling to LAX because if you miss the international flight you will most likely have to wait until the next day. Not an issue coming back to MEL because there are flights every hour or so that QF can slot you into. On the flipside you get more SC for the two legs instead of flying direct out of MEL on the 93/94. Just have a contingency plan on the possibility of missing SYD-LAX.

Can you plan the LAX-SFO slightly differently as its better to have a stopover in LAX after arrival from SYD for the above reason. Then LAX-SFO, SFO---Status run--NYC, NYC-LAX. No biggie if you cant - in which case give yourself 4-5 hours in case your transpacific flight is delayed.

There are many status runs in the USA which i wont detail or repeat here. There is a thread somewhere which details the impressive discoveries some have made.
LAX-another port-SFO
LAX-another port(s)-NYC

...On return from JFK you do not need to collect bags at LAX when leaving the country so long as your bags are tagged all the way to your final destination and meets minimum connection times as BD1959 said....

Regarding baggage:
(1)Coming from AUS to USA. Whether you have boarding passes and /or baggage with tags checked through to final destination elsewhere in the USA or not does not matter. You HAVE to go through passport control AND pick up baggage then drop off baggage at the "Drop off" area.

(2) Coming from USA to AUS. You will NOT have to pick up baggage if your baggage is tagged through to AUS

However lest you say to the checkin agent "But Quickstatus said..."
(a)your connection in the last US port of departure (eg LAX) meets MCT for that airport/airline. Usually you can only buy a ticket if the flights meet MCT. However if it is delayed when you checkin in JFK the airline may refuse to tag your bags to MEL and only to LAX.
(b) you can only get (a) if your ticket is on the 1 PNR
(c) if more than 1 PNR the two airlines must be in an interline partnership such as QF and AA to get through baggage tags.
(d) the check in agent must be in a good mood because doing a baggage tag for a 2 PNR flight can take more time and sometimes they throw up some spurious excuse why they can't do it.
(e) sometimes they can tag your bags through but are unable to issue you with a boarding pass. In this case you have to get it at LAX either at the checkin counter or the QF lounge (if you have lounge access) via the airside connection between T4 and TBIT so no security.

Some would say that the above is a bit OCD. But its is just a distillation of previous experience.

 

[Dravid74]

yes I remember this about SYD. I am trying to balance not having to get to the airport in MEL too early/having enough time to make my connection in SYD whilst being able to enjoy the american express lounge there. I really do enjoy flying an A380 (having said that its only ever been in emirates before and have no idea what the QF product is like) but now that i'm into status credits etc i feel that the saving of 200 dollars plus 5 extra (i think) qatar SC will be worth taking the AA flight.

unfortunately LAX-SFO is a bit awkward as my primary reason is for a wedding on the friday evening/saturday and sunday. ideally I could fly out on the thursday, however annoyingly I finish a night shift at 8.30am so even making an 11am flight from melbourne is more than pushing it, so I have to fly on friday and arrive on friday.
Also flights to SFO for those dates seem particularly more expensive compared to LAX

current working plan would be to land at 7.30am and get a 1.30pm flight so should be ok for time hopefully. my biggest concern is US immigration to be honest. the less said about their interrogations and 'random' searches the better.

Hmm need to find this status run thread... would love to see what people have come up with as I hear the US is the best for it.

Thank you, it's good to know that it may at least be possible to get my bags checked in from new york directly to melbourne! would be great is that could happen.

 

[Quickstatus]

The LAX customs experience has vastly improved with self service passport area. Many have said they managed to get out onto the street within the hour.

Ground time in LAX is about right - that allows for a delayed transpacific flight of about 3-4 hours

If you do not have lounge access and flight arrives on time, its easy enough to go to one of the many airport hotels via free hotel shuttle and have proper food there . You probably wont have time to do a "day rate" to get shower and room.