Skyteam for DJ if they ever join an alliance!

[markis10]

Looks like Star is as good a chance as Oneworld for DJ joining an alliance:

"If you were to go down that path . . . it's wrong to assume Star is the obvious choice," Mr Borghetti said. "Delta is in Sky Team and Sky Team is a very formidable group, and I think Delta are terrific partners.
"There's no question that cross-border mergers are happening and you wonder whether that's going to impact on those alliances. And there are more and more bilaterals being concluded just like we've done between partners which don't restrict your ability to work with people."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...in-star-alliance/story-e6frg95x-1226316885002

 

[pauly7]

Oh dear.... Lol

 

[TonyHancock]

eeeeeek....:shock:

 

[dfcatch]

IMHO - I think this is one area where Borghetti has his head in the sand.

Or perhaps VA simply doesn't want that segment of the market that wants the benefits of an alliance.

For the record, I, and many I know, are in that category.

With that attitude - it simply makes QF continue to look more attractive.

 

[here2go]

Skyteam has better access to the big markets that are most relevant to Australia. China (China Eastern and Southern), the US (United is just downright scary at the moment), Taiwan (China) and Korea (Korean). Furthermore, with burgeoning wealth in Russia (Aeroflot) and Indonesia (Garuda), along with ease of access to Europe with AirFranceKLM, entry into an alliance with Skyteam makes more sense from a growth perspective than Star Alliance.

 

[QF WP]

I still don't see why they are continuing with bilateral agreements with different airlines (all in different alliances or on their own) unless they are trying "living together" method to see if they can live with the "faults". Of course, IIRC their systems were an issue as well. Maybe with their change of GDS it will help them choose a suitor.

 

[markis10]

I am surprised by how many folks still seem to be in awe of alliance benefits, yet barely a week goes by when someone does not start a thread about the inconsistencies between airlines such as baggage allowance or priority tagging. While an alliance is meant to make the guests feel like they are travelling on one airline, rarely it does turn out that way, I dont see it being much different to partnerships as setup by DJ as it stands, the one exception is the minefeild of lounge access, which obviously does not affect most travellers but still needs to be more seamless and clear.

 

[here2go]

Agree with Markis10. Just ask Cathay Pacific about their One World partner, Qantas

 

[dfcatch]

I am surprised by how many folks still seem to be in awe of alliance benefits, yet barely a week goes by when someone does not start a thread about the inconsistencies between airlines such as baggage allowance or priority tagging. While an alliance is meant to make the guests feel like they are travelling on one airline, rarely it does turn out that way, I dont see it being much different to partnerships as setup by DJ as it stands, the one exception is the minefeild of lounge access, which obviously does not affect most travellers but still needs to be more seamless and clear.

Markis - you've hit the nail on the head (IMO at least).

It's about consistency and a seamless and clear experience.

Whilst others have had some issues - with OW I have had nothing but seamless and clear experiences, I know what I get (lounge access entitlements, priority checkin, priority boarding), and I know what I don't get (priority baggage on non-QF flights, extra allowance).
I'm also lucky that I fly AA a lot (who provide more than the minimum OW benefits).

When flying Star - I have had similar seamless and clear experiences, including lounge access, priority boarding, extra luggage, and priority bags. I even had great experiences back in the day using my AN status on UA - was very well treated.

I have not yet used my KLM ScaryTeam status, but it would still be better than this mish-mash of partnerships with confusing lounge rights, earn/burn rates etc.

Not to mention that I have no interest in flying any sandbox airlines and I know many people who feel the same (easily as many as those who think the sun shines where the sand is).

Additionally - it seems to me IMHO - that whilst VA talks about their "partnerships" as if they are as good as an alliance - their "Partners" seem to treat VA (and it's members) as more of a "distant 8th cousin 4 times removed".....if they even know who VA are......YMMV it seems.

So in short, Mr Borghetti, your "partnerships" are (in current form at least), a very poor substitute for a formal alliance and it is costing you business.


Markis - remember - facts are irrelevant, like politics, it doesn't matter if the partnerships are good, and even if alliances are equally problematic......If people want an alliance - that's what will influence their spending decisions - period.
Perception is reality.

 

[dfcatch]

Agree with Markis10. Just ask Cathay Pacific about their One World partner, Qantas

At least they treat QF pax better than a certain "Qantas Group Airline".

 

[markis10]

Markis - remember - facts are irrelevant, like politics, it doesn't matter if the partnerships are good, and even if alliances are equally problematic......If people want an alliance - that's what will influence their spending decisions - period.
Perception is reality.

Where does this perception is reality BS come from (I know - its a positive thinking regime from the 1920s originating from the Gestalt School of Psychology in Germany), its only reality for a small part of the world, the individual seeing things as they wish to see them, nothing good comes from individuals all acting alone and nothing good comes from everyone acting as one, there needs to be a middle ground.

I have not seen a lot of benefit for QF being in one world versus when they were not in an alliance, and I was elite before they joined up so I am seeing it from a fair perspective. Alliances also cost money, with a portion of every flight being paid as a fee to the head alliance. Apart from lounge access clarity, what would DJ customers get at a cost that they dont have now?

 

[dfcatch]

Where does this perception is reality BS come from (I know - its a positive thinking regime from the 1920s originating from the Gestalt School of Psychology in Germany), its only reality for a small part of the world, the individual seeing things as they wish to see them, nothing good comes from individuals all acting alone and nothing good comes from everyone acting as one, there needs to be a middle ground.

I have not seen a lot of benefit for QF being in one world versus when they were not in an alliance, and I was elite before they joined up so I am seeing it from a fair perspective. Alliances also cost money, with a portion of every flight being paid as a fee to the head alliance. Apart from lounge access clarity, what would DJ customers get at a cost that they dont have now?

That's the ultimate $$$ question isn't it???

There's the tangible benefit of alliance-wide clear benefits and rules;

And there's the perception benefit, which BS or not, is very real in the minds of those to whom it matters.

There's a cost - but then there's also an opportunity cost in forgoing the revenue from those customers who seek an alliance.

It's why I posted a thread a long time ago canvassing whether a Virgin Alliance would do the trick..??

Doesn't cover everywhere.....but combined with partnerships could do very well to close the gap.

 

[here2go]

Flashing Gold FF Card at JAL Employees at Haneda after a slow bus transfer from Narita has been VERY handy to get on the plane. Literally flashed the card, told them, "GET US ON THAT PLANE". We then cleared security and walked straight onto the plane. Our bags made it to the final destination too! That's service, and I doubt we would have made it if we couldn't pull One World rank. Rewarding loyalty certainly has a customer benefit.

 

[777]

FWIW i don't think JB is actually saying anything much. "No plans to join an alliance" has been the official line for a long time now. The comment about Sky team seems to be specifically in response to the journalist's suggestion that Star is the obvious/ only option - right to keep your options before any future negotiations.

From what i can tell the current strategy is to be the Alaska airlines of Australia and do two way deals with whichever airlines it makes sense to partner up with - which kind of makes sense as the only major unaligned carrier in this part of the world. Personally i'm not too fussed about whether they join an alliance or not. Right now there arrangements cover 98% of travel needs.

However they need to improve the consistency of lounge access. The obvious way to do this ex-Australia is simply to build there own international lounges sooner rather than later and make them available to their top flyers flying any affiliated airline.

 

[harvyk]

Agree with Markis10. Just ask Cathay Pacific about their One World partner, Qantas

Whilest I have no idea about the back room politics between the two airlines, when I've been a pax, going from cx to qf, it's been just as seemless as going from aa to qf, or qf to qf for that matter, and this was on bookings made on qf.

As for DJ and alliances, *A was the natural choice for them as there was a hole left in the market when AN went under. ST on the other hand pretty much ignored us as a country and thus I don't think has the same level of following.

Unless of course they are trying to do an EK, but I don't think DJ really big enough for that, excluding the virgin alliance of course.

 

[serfty]

In reality alliances seems to work well for statused solo travellers doing HLO.

I am quite happy with DJ's alliance with NZ at the moment - it will get me the best of both world in Oz. In fact, it's the only reason I am planning to maintain *G with Airpoints after 2015.

 

[dfcatch]

In reality alliances seems to work well for statused solo travellers doing HLO.

I am quite happy with DJ's alliance with NZ at the moment - it will get me the best of both world in Oz. In fact, it's the only reason I am planning to maintain *G with Airpoints after 2015.

But you don't earn NZ SC's with VA do you?

 

[smit0847]

Remind me again why Virgin Atlantic, America and Australia dont start their own Virgin alliance? Dont they have a much more closely aligned hard and soft product than Delta or SQ? VA long haul can then hub into LHR and HKG to hook up with Virgin Atlantic.

 

[harvyk]

In reality alliances seems to work well for statused solo travellers doing HLO.

Which is what I typically am... (although not with DJ)

 

[777]

Remind me again why Virgin Atlantic, America and Australia dont start their own Virgin alliance? Dont they have a much more closely aligned hard and soft product than Delta or SQ? VA long haul can then hub into LHR and HKG to hook up with Virgin Atlantic.

In many respects they have formed an alliance. Mutual earning and burning, lounge access, etc. But part of the answer is actually in your question - VS only fly from LHR and only fly long haul - little if no hubbing potential or onward flowing traffic. The only places where the routes actually touch is SYD and LAX. VX are a small airline and while there is some cooperation they currently have no lounges so that's irrelevant. Most of the destinations they fly to in the US are available via VA but they are a drop in the bucket compared to Delta.