Rental Car Excess Insurance Cover - Westpac Black Card (Zurich)

[AdMEL]

Hi all,

I had the misfortune of damaging a rental car yesterday in Tassie - damn! I was having a really bad day (ill and lost) and managed to reverse into a pole in a car park, despite the car being fitted with reversing sensors! Damage was minor - dented bumper and dented bootlid (approx. 10-15 cm dents on each) - but significant. First time I've damaged a rental car (other than minor scuffs they don't worry about). Car was a Falcon XR6 rented from Avis at LST, using a corporate rate that reduced the excess to $1,000 +++.

By way of background, I always rely on either Westpac Black Card Car Rental Excess Cover or ANZ Car Rental Cover and don't reduce the excess. I do have access to many corporate rates with reduced excess though - I use these if they are cheaper, or I have a co-driver that wants a lower excess (the case in this situation). As it turned out, a good thing!

When I advised the Avis rep at the counter that I had damaged the car, she asked me to fill in their incident report form and advised I would have to pay the excess. She also mentioned that if the repair bill was less than the excess, the difference would be refunded. Given how expensive even minor repairs are, I can't see this happening! I wasn't overly concerned, given my Westpac Black Card covers up to $5,500 excess, with a $250 excess.

To my surprise, the invoice only shows GST and the 3.5% admin fee being applied to the excess - it does not show the airport/location surcharge (11% at Avis LST) being applied to the excess. My understanding was that the location/airport surcharge did apply to the excess.

I am now waiting on the charge to appear on my credit card (it usually takes a few days, up to a week), before lodging my claim with Zurich. One thing I can see may be an issue with Zurich - everything shows the excess as $1,000, despite the actual excess being ~$1,138, so I may be out of pocket $250 + $138. Also, the invoice doesn't show excess - it just shows miscellaneous charges! It also groups GST and the admin fee for the excess and the actual rental together. I did get a copy of the report though. I expect to be out of pocket for several weeks.

I'll update this post through the process.

 

[k_sheep]

Sorry to hear about that But thanks for posting your experience! I'll be keeping an eye out since I generally rely on CC insurance too ....

 

[prozac]

I am also interested to read you unfolding report AdMEL. The repair won't be cheap as it sounds likely the moulded items behind the bumper will be damaged as well. I have yet to have my Commodore repaired for something similar, though by the sound of it less than your episode. My panel beater mate tells me it will be a few thou.

Keep us posted on the process.

 

[AdMEL]

Sorry to hear about that But thanks for posting your experience! I'll be keeping an eye out since I generally rely on CC insurance too ....

I think I'll continue to rely on credit card excess cover unless the claim process goes horribly wrong, which I don't expect it will. A friend claimed under ANZ Car Rental Cover (Western QBE) - claim had to be followed up several times and took 4-6 weeks but was paid. I've saved thousands over 8 or 9 years. For example, I have a 4 day booking for a BMW 118i through Hertz in a couple of weeks - $110! Excess reduction would more than double cost.

I am also interested to read you unfolding report AdMEL. The repair won't be cheap as it sounds likely the moulded items behind the bumper will be damaged as well. I have yet to have my Commodore repaired for something similar, though by the sound of it less than your episode. My panel beater mate tells me it will be a few thou.

Keep us posted on the process.

Pole was a wooden telegraph/power pole, with u shaped metal reinforcing cover, which is what I hit. Pole was in an open car park beside an information centre, with nothing around it (no fence or kerb). I think you're right - I was surprised by the damage - bumper didn't look that damaged but must given a long way, given the large dent in the bootlid! impact speed would have been approx 5km/h. I don't think too many repairs to current models cost less than a couple of thousand.

 

[opusman]

I don't think too many repairs to current models cost less than a couple of thousand.

I did exactly the same thing to a Flexicar in Melbourne last year, Toyota Yaris, and the repair was ~$300. Makes a big difference whether the organisation views damage as a profit centre or not!

 

[TheRealTMA]

Hi all,

..reverse into a pole in a car park, despite the car being fitted with reversing sensors!

Yes isn't if quite funny that AFTER you have hit the post (or in my case a stone bollard) that you then realise that the beeping noise has meaning!

Rental was through EuropCar and Zurich took some 6 weeks to process my claim but paid in full, less the $200 excess at the time. Was cheaper than taking out insurance with hire company.

I rely on CC insurance (Westpac Earth / Earth Black / Amex) for all car hires and general travel insurance.

 

[AdMEL]

I did exactly the same thing to a Flexicar in Melbourne last year, Toyota Yaris, and the repair was ~$300. Makes a big difference whether the organisation views damage as a profit centre or not!

Even if the repair is $300, the max. I should be out of pocket is $250, being the excess on the Westpac Black Card Cover. Almost no repair will be less than that. Interesting you make the comment about whether the organisation views damage as a profit centre or not - I assume you're inferring that Flexicar does not and some/all large car rental companies do? If that's correct, interesting because Flexicar is owner by Hertz! Based on my experience, I do not believe that the majority of the big name car rental companies view damage as a profit centre, at least not the corporate owned/run locations. The majority of staff seem to be pretty lenient. There are of course some over zealous employees that may occasionally make it seem otherwise, but I don't think they are representative of the corporate view, which is that renting vehicles is the main game and damage (not fair wear and tear) costs are to be covered only. Franchised locations are an entirely different matter, particularly where they own their own fleet and don't share the corporate owned fleet. It's then up to the franchise owner as to how damage is viewed. The majority of the horror stories I've read seem to involve franchised locations. It should be noted that it's always in the company's (corporate or franchise) best interest to keep the cars as undamaged as possible, as this affects sale price, particularly given they are often subject to buy back from the manufacturer and this is dependent on the condition of the car. I remember reading an interesting article on the internet a year or so ago, that was aimed at American car rental companies and basically said that the companies need to make a decision up front as to whether their main game is car rental or car sale, as this changes the way they run their business. Having said all that, I do believe the large car rental companies have a few things which add to the cost for the customer - they have large overheads, they take the easy route (charge the excess irrespective of the level of damage, through a lack of training of staff - this is different in the US, where I understand they have a list of common costs like windscreen replacement) and they take into account the lost time for rental.

Yes isn't if quite funny that AFTER you have hit the post (or in my case a stone bollard) that you then realise that the beeping noise has meaning!

Rental was through EuropCar and Zurich took some 6 weeks to process my claim but paid in full, less the $200 excess at the time. Was cheaper than taking out insurance with hire company.

I rely on CC insurance (Westpac Earth / Earth Black / Amex) for all car hires and general travel insurance.

I knew the noise had meaning, it was just that I was ill and a little preoccupied with being a little lost, so wasn't concentrating. It is funny though!

Thanks for sharing your experience with Zurich. As with you, I rely on credit card insurance for all car rental and travel insurance.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Many people do not realise that glass, roof and tyres are not covered by standard insurance so you still need CC travel insurance to cover these things in the event of misfortune.

 

[AdMEL]

Many people do not realise that glass, roof and tyres are not covered by standard insurance so you still need CC travel insurance to cover these things in the event of misfortune.

As far as I understand, whether glass and tyres are included varies - some car rental companies include them but subject to paying the full excess, some exclude them but allow you to buy cover.

Roof damage is almost never covered, neither is undercarriage damage.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Avis in Italy hit me some 250€+ for a tyre replacement some 3 weeks after I'd dropped the car off at Amerigo Vespucci - one of those horrible, park car in unattended parking area in the open and drop keys at a hole-in-the-wall window places. Despite argument, they maintained this was not covered by their insurance (which car had since I had it only for w/e) and took money from credit card. Not a thing one can do in such cases.

 

[Jleno]

Avis in Italy hit me some 250€+ for a tyre replacement some 3 weeks after I'd dropped the car off at Amerigo Vespucci - one of those horrible, park car in unattended parking area in the open and drop keys at a hole-in-the-wall window places. Despite argument, they maintained this was not covered by their insurance (which car had since I had it only for w/e) and took money from credit card. Not a thing one can do in such cases.

This is why I'm investigating getting a very low limit credit card for my next overseas travel. Some places don't check your credit limit so the protection there is that if the rental company tried to slug you with a huge bill (unreasonably of course) which is over your card limit then the charge won't go through. I wonder if those supermarket credit cards can be used for this.

I always stress when I get some minor damage on the car cos you know there's generally very little power to control the costs of repairs.

Does anyone know whether the CC excess insurance covers the use of car sharing club cars (which I think are only currently available in Sydney, London and New York).

 

[TheRealTMA]

This won't work since the car hire company puts a charge and hold on the excess amount on the CC when you collect the car. If the charge is not permitted then you don't get the car. Besides, it would violate the rules of the CC bank. Low limit cards generally do not limit your actual liability and often simply mean that the bank reserves the right to allow you over the limit and then charge you excess interest on any amount over the limit on a daily basis.

 

[AdMEL]

This is why I'm investigating getting a very low limit credit card for my next overseas travel. Some places don't check your credit limit so the protection there is that if the rental company tried to slug you with a huge bill (unreasonably of course) which is over your card limit then the charge won't go through. I wonder if those supermarket credit cards can be used for this.

I always stress when I get some minor damage on the car cos you know there's generally very little power to control the costs of repairs.

Does anyone know whether the CC excess insurance covers the use of car sharing club cars (which I think are only currently available in Sydney, London and New York).

As TheRealITMA states, low limit cards will not limit your liability.

I'll try and remember to ask Zurich about cover for car share cars when I speak to them.

Car sharing schemes are in use in most mainland states in Australia (Melbourne has three) and many cities around the world - they are common in Europe and the US.

This won't work since the car hire company puts a charge and hold on the excess amount on the CC when you collect the car. If the charge is not permitted then you don't get the car. Besides, it would violate the rules of the CC bank. Low limit cards generally do not limit your actual liability and often simply mean that the bank reserves the right to allow you over the limit and then charge you excess interest on any amount over the limit on a daily basis.

This is not necessarily correct, particularly in Australia, NZ and the US, where they authorise or charge varying amounts at the start of the rental that are much less than the excess. In Oz, it works as follows:

Hertz - rental amount + either $80, $200 or $1,000 authorised, depending on car rented
Avis & Budget - rental amount authorised (same in NZ)
Europcar - $1.00 authorised
Thrifty - rental amount either authorised or charged

In the US, Hertz authorise the rental amount and Avis/Budget usually either rental amount or rental amount + $200. This varies by location.

They change their policies occasionally too! E.g. Europcar have previously charged the rental amount upfront, then authorised rental amount +$385.

 

[prozac]

I do not know what the legal position would be but my thoughts are that if you provided a card (or a cheque you know will be dishonoured) that you know has insufficient funds to pay for damages in the event of such a claim, then would that not be considered some kind of fraud? Perhaps one of our legal types might care to comment? I'd hate to be arrested by immigration at the airport, revisiting said country on my way to a relaxing holiday on Corfu or a villa in Tuscany. :shock: Mind you Mrs prozac might consider that a better holiday.

 

[Jleno]

I highly doubt that would be a legal problem - it may be more of a legal problem if the debt liability occurred prior to your leaving the country and you left without settling that debt. It's probably not that different to using a credit card that is already at your credit limit.

So are those cards you can get at coles (or in the UK from supermarkets) credit cards or debit cards. They would seem to be more like charge cards (albeit with Visa/Mastercard) where you have to put credit into it before you can use it. I know a lot of people who don't have credit cards use those in place of credit cards (eg only shopping where they can only use credit cards).

 

[AdMEL]

I highly doubt that would be a legal problem - it may be more of a legal problem if the debt liability occurred prior to your leaving the country and you left without settling that debt. It's probably not that different to using a credit card that is already at your credit limit.

So are those cards you can get at coles (or in the UK from supermarkets) credit cards or debit cards. They would seem to be more like charge cards (albeit with Visa/Mastercard) where you have to put credit into it before you can use it. I know a lot of people who don't have credit cards use those in place of credit cards (eg only shopping where they can only use credit cards).

The cards you get from supermarkets, etc. are Visa/Mastercard gift cards. They are not acceptable for car rental. MasterCard and Visa Debit Cards, are sometimes acceptable for car rental. Where the debit type cards are accepted, they usually have much higher deposit amounts.

Conditions from Avis Reservations:

Credit Card Policies
Avis Australia accepts Avis Charge Cards, American Express, Diners Club, Mastercard, Visa.

Top​

​

​

Debit Card Policies
Note that the acceptance of Debit Cards is done so provided that the card displays the Visa or Mastercard logo, has been issued by a bank and has the customer's name and card number on the card.
Note: Full rental charges must be available in debit card funds at the time of rental. A hold will be placed on your account for this amount.
Upon returning the vehicle, Avis will process a release of the unused portion of the hold subject to your Bank's procedures.
Please be advised that the hold may take up to 2 weeks to be released by your bank.
If you fail to return the vehicle as agreed, Avis will obtain additional authorizations from your account to cover the rental charges.
Avis is not responsible for any returned checks or over-drafts based on this policy.
Note: Prepaid Debit/Gift cards are not acceptable methods of credit identification to pick up a car at any location. One of the above mentioned cards must be presented. Prepaid Debit/Gift cards are accepted at time of return only.

 

[prozac]

I highly doubt that would be a legal problem - it may be more of a legal problem if the debt liability occurred prior to your leaving the country and you left without settling that debt. It's probably not that different to using a credit card that is already at your credit limit.

So are those cards you can get at coles (or in the UK from supermarkets) credit cards or debit cards. They would seem to be more like charge cards (albeit with Visa/Mastercard) where you have to put credit into it before you can use it. I know a lot of people who don't have credit cards use those in place of credit cards (eg only shopping where they can only use credit cards).

Whichever way you present it, it sounds like a fraud to me. I can't believe you find this ok.

 

[Jleno]

Not on the basis that I am not expecting to damage the car and incur a massive liability. Then it all comes down to the terms and conditions of the contract. If the contract says that you must use a credit card that has sufficient credit limit to cover the excess, then they will usually back it up with a process that allows them to verify that at the time of booking (eg by either requiring a minimum of two credit cards (which some rental companies require) or by them getting a pre-authorisation from your credit card).

If the contracts only creates a liability (rather than you must have a credit card with sufficient credit limit), which is a liability whether of not you pay by credit card or a briefcase of cash, then that's all that matters.

There are plenty of people who have credit card limits of sub-5K and when they use these cards for car rental and don't take the excess reduction, the excess can be 4-5K (and easily if in Europe given the exchange rate). So these people have already charged up to $2K on their credit cards, that leaves about $3K available on their credit card when they book a car with potential excess of $5K. Granted most members on this site have much higher credit limits, but I'm willing to best the vast majority of customers at car rental places have low limits, or more accurately, low available credit limit.

 

[prozac]

If your intention is to potentially avoid a debt owed then even if not directly fraud, is morally bereft imo.

 

[Jleno]

Well to avoid deviating too far from the intention of this thread, I'll agree that's a valid opinion. My view is that it gives me a fair position from which to challenge any claim for vehicle damages which I feel unreasonable on the basis that, in my experience, once your money is deducted you have very little chance of getting them to do anything to justify their charge.