Red-eye flights

[anat0l]

What is a red-eye flight? No, it is not a flight where everyone gets high on drugs. This Wikipedia article explains (to a degree, but we can use this thread to debate that as well).

We have our own red-eye flights in Australia, namely the last flights of the day leaving PER going to the Eastern seaboard. At work, we call these the "midnight horror" flights. I thought there were also some flights that leave DRW in the wee hours of the day, but even if there were they get scarcely mentioned.

What is interesting is what gets defined as a red-eye flight. Obviously, not any or all flights which leave close to midnight are necessarily classed as red-eye flights. I think the Wiki article hits the spot in that the typical red-eye is basically an overnight flight which is "too short" (i.e. 3-5 hours) and traverses a few time zones. TATL flights (at least the ones going from the US to the UK) aren't considered red-eyes, but I do hear at times can be still brutal.

So here's a thread to tell of your experiences with red-eyes, discuss about red-eyes and so on.

One thing I thought about is how could an airline make flying red-eyes a lot easier for pax. Sure, cheaper prices helps (or in the case of QF IME, more O seats on red-eyes than other flights on the same sectors), but I was also thinking about something like BA's Sleeper Service (although this is restricted to F and CW only; no idea what happens to those in WT/WT+).

 

[codash1099]

What is a red-eye flight? No, it is not a flight where everyone gets high on drugs. This Wikipedia article explains (to a degree, but we can use this thread to debate that as well).

We have our own red-eye flights in Australia, namely the last flights of the day leaving PER going to the Eastern seaboard. At work, we call these the "midnight horror" flights. I thought there were also some flights that leave DRW in the wee hours of the day, but even if there were they get scarcely mentioned.

What is interesting is what gets defined as a red-eye flight. Obviously, not any or all flights which leave close to midnight are necessarily classed as red-eye flights. I think the Wiki article hits the spot in that the typical red-eye is basically an overnight flight which is "too short" (i.e. 3-5 hours) and traverses a few time zones. TATL flights (at least the ones going from the US to the UK) aren't considered red-eyes, but I do hear at times can be still brutal.

So here's a thread to tell of your experiences with red-eyes, discuss about red-eyes and so on.

One thing I thought about is how could an airline make flying red-eyes a lot easier for pax. Sure, cheaper prices helps (or in the case of QF IME, more O seats on red-eyes than other flights on the same sectors), but I was also thinking about something like BA's Sleeper Service (although this is restricted to F and CW only; no idea what happens to those in WT/WT+).

I always knew them as "midnight horrors" - red-eye is a relatively recent term.

Way back in my youth (but not as far back as my mis-spent youth) the midnight horror was the only way I could get from my family's home (PER) to where I worked (MEL) without surrendering an extra day of leave. My car would be at the airport and I'd go straight to work - not surprisingly first to arrive.

Adrenalin kept me going for the day, but I don't know how productive I was. Still, I was a Research Chemist so I guess no-one could tell

 

[Natt]

I have only had one red eye, but boy was it a doozy

Back when tiger used to fly from Darwin-Melbourne

the flight got delayed by about 3 hours (i think it was originally meant to be around midnight)

Unfortunately I had done a lovely bay cruise that night and had partaken of WAY too many wines

Its all a haze of fried chicken in the wee hours of the morning, and trying to jog from T3 to T2 to get a connecting virgin flight in melbourne - trying to self check in was a tad challengin that day

I think I actually slept though - or should I say crashed on the plane.

Red eyes would be a tad of an understatment :shock:

 

[dajop]

I think the wikipedia description is pretty accurate. From an Australian perspective they are missing the DRW-SYD/MEL/BNE redeyes and the (albeit now discontinued) BME-MEL redeye. Have done some PER-MEL and also done DRW-SYD on domestic redeyes. Not my idea of fun.

I would also consider SIN-ADL and SIN-MEL as redeyes (particular if winds are favourable, and particularly for early evening departures) as just as bad, even though 6 hours the time zone crossing is the killer. To illustrate SIN-MEL may be double the length of PER-MEL, but I don't normally go to sleep at 8pm, so essentially by the time bed time comes around at 11pm or so ... its only 3 and a bit hours to landing anyway, just like the PER flight.

One curiosity is why they seem to work in some markets yet not others, eg PER-East coast there is the plethora on multiple airlines, but there are no redeyes on the similar length trans tasman routes.

 

[Mr Somerset]

I used to work for a company where I had to look after both QLD and WA, from my base in QLD. So every 3 weeks I spent a few days in Perth.

Company policy, come the end of that week, was do a full day of work in Perth, get the red eye back to Brisbane with zero sleep due to noise, and then go straight to the office on the Gold Coast for a full day's work there.

Nice.

Somerset

 

[yohy?!]

I know it doesn't strictly fit the definition but I think LAN's infamous LA801 SYD-AKL 5:25am should be included.

Cheap as chips but boy do you pay for it at work!

 

[david870mdg]

A strange red eye combination which I was offered by QF in their South America Sale last year:
MEL-PER on the 7PM
PER-SYD on the Midnight horror
SYD-AKL-SCL on LAN.
Arrival in Satniago and the park bench would look a more attractive proposition than a Y seat!

The return was the same!

Fare worked out to $1080, i resisted the temptaiton to fly it

 

[jamesatfish]

AA has some horrible trans-con redeyes on their rubbish 757s. I've done the SFO-MIA flight a few times, leaving SFO about midnight and arriving in MIA around 7am local time, after a 4.5 hour flight. Even in 'First' the seats are terrible, there's no meal service at either end, the flight is too short for me to sleep but too long for me to work (as the 757s don't have in-seat power).

There seem to be a few others leaving SFO at around the same time heading over to the East coast.

 

[Mal]

The (now stopped) midnight AA SFO-ORD was fairly nasty too. About 4.5 hours leaving SFO around midnight. That got in about 6:30 in the morning.

 

[anat0l]

Last time I flew the PER-BNE red-eye, I landed in BNE and even after a shower and morning refreshments in the QP, I still managed to only work half the day before going home with a mild cold (sneeze and cough) mainly due to fatigue.

I think it was ironic the comment the CSM gave when we were about to start descent into BNE: "Good morning ladies and gentlemen, I trust you've been able to get some rest during this flight."

I think even if I had skipped the dinner/supper service, I probably would've been the same zombie. Personally, I'd like to see the figures on how many meals are actually served on those flights (shaddup in the peanut gallery about questioning whether the meals should be limited or removed on the red-eyes - I'm not suggesting it!)

 

[tuapekastar]

Only one domestic red-eye, PER-MEL, many years ago.

BBQ Sunday afternoon, followed by several hours in the bar at PER (wouldn't have even known airline lounges existed then - in fact, maybe they didn't).

Asleep (comatose, more like it ) before the wheels left the ground. Woke up 5 minutes before landing in MEL.

Misdirected taxi through MEL suburbs (despite the driver saying "are you sure you want to go this way"?) and cost myself an extra 25% on the fare.

That's why there's only been one! (though it was a "short" flight )

 

[davidj-bell]

What is a red-eye flight? No, it is not a flight where everyone gets high on drugs. This Wikipedia article explains (to a degree, but we can use this thread to debate that as well).

We have our own red-eye flights in Australia, namely the last flights of the day leaving PER going to the Eastern seaboard. At work, we call these the "midnight horror" flights. I thought there were also some flights that leave DRW in the wee hours of the day, but even if there were they get scarcely mentioned.

What is interesting is what gets defined as a red-eye flight. Obviously, not any or all flights which leave close to midnight are necessarily classed as red-eye flights. I think the Wiki article hits the spot in that the typical red-eye is basically an overnight flight which is "too short" (i.e. 3-5 hours) and traverses a few time zones. TATL flights (at least the ones going from the US to the UK) aren't considered red-eyes, but I do hear at times can be still brutal.

So here's a thread to tell of your experiences with red-eyes, discuss about red-eyes and so on.

One thing I thought about is how could an airline make flying red-eyes a lot easier for pax. Sure, cheaper prices helps (or in the case of QF IME, more O seats on red-eyes than other flights on the same sectors), but I was also thinking about something like BA's Sleeper Service (although this is restricted to F and CW only; no idea what happens to those in WT/WT+).

I belive "red-eye" is an american term, whereas in australia I knew it as a "midnight horror", but it essentially entails the same thing - a flight that is over night, but not long enough to get any real sleep (ie, about 5 hours total flying time, so you might get 4 hours of sleep if you're lucky).

I've done a few in my time, mostly when I was a bit younger and therefore missing 4 hours of sleep (or not sleeping at all) wasn't that big a deal. Perth to Melbourne was a popular one for me (except when half way to adelaide, we had to turn back to Perth, and had this waiting game, "we'll be off in 2 hours", 2 hours later, "we'll be off in 2 hours". We didn't leave until about 10am the next day). I've also done a few from LAX to the US east coast.

I've got a red-eye planned for this year - London to Tel Aviv. It leaves London about 10ish, but gets into TLV at 5:30. Should be interesting to see how that goes.

 

[Natt]

Only one domestic red-eye, PER-MEL, many years ago.

BBQ Sunday afternoon, followed by several hours in the bar at PER (wouldn't have even known airline lounges existed then - in fact, maybe they didn't).

Asleep (comatose, more like it ) before the wheels left the ground. Woke up 5 minutes before landing in MEL.

Misdirected taxi through MEL suburbs (despite the driver saying "are you sure you want to go this way"?) and cost myself an extra 25% on the fare.

That's why there's only been one! (though it was a "short" flight )

Are you sure we are not related somehow

 

[albatross710]

One thing I thought about is how could an airline make flying red-eyes a lot easier for pax. Sure, cheaper prices helps (or in the case of QF IME, more O seats on red-eyes than other flights on the same sectors), but I was also thinking about something like BA's Sleeper Service (although this is restricted to F and CW only; no idea what happens to those in WT/WT+).

For me, if I see a red-eye flight, I request a window seat, I eat in the lounge before the flight, I decline the meals in-flight and advise the flight attendants and fellow passengers that I'm not eating. I hit the eye shades immediately I'm in my seat and sleep as much as I can.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Spare a thought for JQ flight attendants at the DRW base. Five days in a row they are doing DRW/SIN/DRW or DRW/SGN/DRW or DRW/DPS/DRW so operating a double header with their return sector always being a red-eye. Noone in their right mind would want to do this as a passenger never mind having to work on these sectors week in week out!

No wonder so many are quitting left right and centre leaving the base grossly understaffed, so much so that JQ had to borrow flight attendants from Strategic for a month just so they could crew their flights. Even the Strategic crew would look at the duty and refuse to do it because they’re used to flying DRW/KWI then sitting in a hotel for a week on reserve before flying home.

I can’t think of any other airline whose crew have to sign on for a second time in the one day. F/A's are made to sign off onboard the aircraft eg 0600 so on paper it looks like they're getting a 'rest' period of 10 hours before signing on again that afternoon say at 1600. The reality is that their duty might actually finish about 0700 by the time they get back to the office after clearing customs as they aren't always allowed to use the crew lane and have to queue behind the last of the passengers.

Legally the F/A can refuse to do shorten this duty but most don’t as some are too young to know their rights and don’t want to look like they’re being difficult. JQ Ops constantly ring them on their days off telling them they’re needed to crew a flight however I don’t think you are obliged to answer your phone on a day off, however if you do answer you must accept the duty.

I know of one F/A who’d had 4 hours sleep in 48 hours had been asleep for 2 hours only to be woken by JQ Ops to do a duty in 4 hours time. Ops don’t give a rats about how fatigued anyone is all they care about is drafting people to crew flights full stop. Although the official rest period is 10 hours their award says that for operational reasons the rest period may be reduced.

If JQ ‘management’ think they’re saving money by not overnighting crews in hotels in SIN/SGN/DPS they are seriously kidding themselves. They must be losing money hand over fist training FA’s in ground school only to have them quit weeks later.

There’s a certain irony in paxing crews up from MEL putting them in hotels in DRW plus expenses to cover the FA’s in DRW who’ve either quit or who ring in sick because they’re too tired to work. JQ even demand a Doctor’s certificate for one days absence so most crew just elect to not get paid that day rather than taking time out to see a Dr when they could be sleeping.

How long will it be before there's a major incident due to fatigued crew? :evil: :evil:

 

[737]

. Personally, I'd like to see the figures on how many meals are actually served on those flights (shaddup in the peanut gallery about questioning whether the meals should be limited or removed on the red-eyes - I'm not suggesting it!)

You'd be surprised with how many people actaully eat, i would say maybe 75%, but that can vary, but most people usually tuck in and have something to eat.

--------------

Feel sorry for us F/A's who have to work the horror Quite often we will do the horror ex PER and arrive in MEL/SYD/BNE, and then continue on one of the morning flights to MEL/SYD/BNE, all those fresh passengers who have had a good nights sleep, and here is us, the walking dead, trying our hardest to look nice and fresh but we still love it.

I feel sorry for those pax in Y on a 737 on the horrors as well, all squished in trying to sleep :shock:

 

[oz_mark]

I like the way the industry refers to them as back-of-clock operations.

I remember one PER-SYD red-eye, that when the captain did his top of descent spiel, sounded as though he was well and truly ready for some shut eye.

 

[harvyk]

I've always known them as red-eye flights... (15+ years)...

I used to frequently be on the PER - SYD or PER - MEL flights, as it let me get a full day in PER and could effectively make PER an o'nighter destination.

I've only once had a really bad experience on one, it was when the pax next to me decided my seat was more comfortable than his :shock:. Now had the pax been a early 20's female who worked as a swimsuit model I probably wouldn't have minded, but the guy was in his early 40's, not exactly attractive looking, and being a straight mid 20's guy I didn't really enjoy him "cuddling" up to me throughout the flight. :evil:

Normally I have something to eat (yes the full meal goes down well), I then put on a movie (back when they had in-seat IFE on the route) and maybe throw a blanket over me...

I've only once been able to sleep on a red-eye and that was from PER-MEL on an dom config A332, where the movie on the mainscreen was pretty terrible, and there was nothing else to do... The strange thing was that's been the red-eye that has taken the most out of me...

 

[NYCguy]

As a veteran of many a SFO or LAX to JFK red-eye on UA FPS tickets, I can safely say that it's not only torture in Y.

 

[Cheesy]

Similar to others in that I've always known them as the "red-eye", and I've caught a fair few from PER across the Nullabor. Generally can't sleep on most flights (with the possible exception of J from Asia-LHR), and with the red-eye *usually* being the cheapest fare it's just too tempting on most occasions. It makes a little bit of sense if you can crash straight at the hotel for a few hours in the morning, but I haven't had many hotels that will have the room ready at 7am!

And you'll love the current itinerary ...

PER-SYD (red-eye), SYD-AKL (LA-J), AKL-WLG (NZ)
PER @ 2100 (WST), landed in WLG at 1900 (NZDT), and after being up at 0600 in PER that morning, that means being awake for a good 36 hours. Not good when you have to referee a soccer match the next day!

Currently waiting at AKL-QP for LA801 (OMG!), then connecting SYD-ADL-PER ... I really am a glutton for punishment!

Cheesy