Questions re Amex Platinum Charge Card

[wafliron]

Hi all,


I have some large corporate tax bills available for me to pay on credit card, and am considering signing up for an Amex Platinum Charge Card to enable me to take full advantage of this. The primary motivator for getting a charge card is the lack of a defined credit limit - currently I can only pay the tax bills up to my combined credit limits across a couple of cards, and said limit is not nearly large enough to take full advantage of the tax available to pay (and unfortunately I can't "cycle" money into and out of the cards to get rid of the limit problem).

Before I take the plunge, I was hoping those of you with a Platinum Charge Card (or other Amex Charge Card - I'd imagine the answers are largely the same) and experience paying tax through it could answer a couple of questions for me? I'm going to ask Amex these questions too, of course, but I'd like to get some "real world" feedback to make sure what they tell me is in fact accurate in reality!


So, the questions are:

1) From what I've read it sounds like while there is officially no credit limit on Amex charge cards, there is in fact a hidden "soft limit", which, if exceeded, will result in Amex declining the large (soft limit exceeding) transaction and/or barring the card until it is paid off. Is this correct?

2) Assuming yes to #1, are Amex "flexible" on this soft limit if they are pre-warned of large transactions? Asssuming I sign up for a charge card I'd be wanting to start putting multiple $50,000 transactions (ATO limit for one CC transaction) through it each quarter, starting immediately, and I'd imagine this may concern them from a new cardholder! But if I can't do this then there's no point signing up for the card.

3) From what I've read it sounds like payment of the full card balance is technically due when the statement is issued, but there is a 14/21 day grace period before any late "fees" apply. In practice, does this mean that paying the card off in full within 14 / 21 days will not result in Amex taking a negative view of the cardholder's "credit-worthiness" - i.e. there is only a problem if it extends beyond 14 / 21 days?

4) Related to #3, do Amex charge interest on their charge cards if you don't pay within 14 / 21 days of the statement date? Or only charge late "fees"? I'd be surprised if they don't charge interest, but yet I can't seem to find any reference to it on their website... (not that I plan on paying late, just curious here).

5) The Amex website says the Plat Charge Card earns 1.5 MR points per $1 spent for the first $200,000 pa, and 1 MR point per $1 thereafter. Is there any overall points cap?

6)Do Amex (either technically, and/or in reality) disallow business transactions (i.e. paying business tax bills) on a "personal" charge card from from earning MR points? I had a look at the MR T&Cs and it didn't look like such a restriction exists, but TBH I was a bit surprised by this so I wanted to confirm.

7)What is the MR points to QFF points redemption rate for MR Ascent Premium? I found the redemption rates for all the other FF programs on their website, but not for QFF.


Thanks everyone... sorry for so many questions. Sincerely appreciate any advice / answers that are forthcoming.

 

[zenjabba]

Hi all,

6)Do Amex (either technically, and/or in reality) disallow business transactions (i.e. paying business tax bills) on a "personal" charge card from from earning MR points? I had a look at the MR T&Cs and it didn't look like such a restriction exists, but TBH I was a bit surprised by this so I wanted to confirm.

I have paid over $750,000 worth of ATO bills on my black card, no problems at all.

 

[greenfrog86]

I don't have any experience paying tax bills or business txns so I'll leave that for others to answer. The comments below are just personal experiences of using the Charge card.

Note that zenjabba is using a Centurion card so Amex may treat the Plat Charge differently... just something to keep in mind.

1) That is my understanding. It takes a few months for them to build comfort around your spending habits however you will be given an initial 'soft' limit when you apply - if you have current Amex cards this will impact your soft limit. ie if you've successfully held a card for a while and paid on time etc this will be in your favour.

2) Amex are open to a discussion and comments from others on here indicates they sometime negotiate with you. I can't imagine they would let a 'new to Amex' customer (assuming you don't already hold a card with them) put through a $50000 transaction without you having built up a history of charging and paying over time. They may say they'll allow the charge if you contribute a part payment upfront however - this is kind of like the 'cycling' you referred to when you have a CC limit... Amex will want to see that you actually have cash to pay for this transaction before they allow it

3) Charge cards now have 'due by' dates on statements. Pay by this date and you will be fine. The date is 14 days from the statement date.

4) Because it is a charge card they do not charge interest - the rules state you MUST pay the full balance when asked to do so. Therefore there is no provision for allowing you to hold the balance longer than the statement period as with a credit card. If you do not pay on time however they charge 'liquidated damages' that are quite steep (a % of the balance). Paying late will impact your ability to put through larger transactions etc in the future as you have essentially broken the rules of the card.

5) The limit you state is correct. You also have another points limit on the free Credit Card you are entitled to which makes the overall points cap a bit higher

6) I have no experience with this so will let others comment.

7) You earn 1.5 Amex MR points per $1 spent. You then choose how many points and when to redeem to QFF. The redemption is 1:1 points between MR and Qantas.

So $10,000 spend earns 15,000 MR points. 15,000 MR points then gives to 15,000 QFF points.

Hope this helps. You might also want to check out the 'Platinum Card - what do I get for $900' thread in the Amex section of this site.

Almost all of these questions have been answered and commented on somewhere else around this site.

 

[sparoz]

I will just add or clarify some points:

1&2. Amex works on spending patterns. So, if you put through 200k per month, your effective limit would be around 400k. To put through say a 50k bill to start off with, you might need to call them and let them know, or if they don't decline it, they might make you to pay early the first time. However, they are usually happy after that. Their credit department will also take financials to substantiate a "limit". If you let them know how much you will be shifting your payment to amex, then they will be happy with letting the transactions through after looking at your financials.

4. Current rate is 3%, but if you did miss one because of some circumstances, they are usually happy to waive the fee.

5. To clarify, there are no cap on points - you earn 1 point per $ after the bonus points.

6. Some merchants can only charge on business cards in which your transaction may be declined using a personal card. ATO transactions are fine as they can't really differentiate what sort of tax bill it is.

You might also want to consider getting a business card instead. It is slightly more expensive, but the bonus points limit is at $250k, and there are currently no change on the travel insurance policy. There are other perks that a personal card doesn't get too.

 

[Deleted member]

We have slowly built up over time and now can put all tax through the plat.
The only time there has been an issue is if +1 is traveling and I am not. Transactions on the card can trigger an alarm.

She has a supplementary card.
All transactions generally run smoothly.

 

[greenfrog86]

We have slowly built up over time and now can put all tax through the plat.
The only time there has been an issue is if +1 is traveling and I am not. Transactions on the card can trigger an alarm.

She has a supplementary card.
All transactions generally run smoothly.

Same experience with the 'build up' - the OP seems to be impatient and not want to wait... I think you've got no chance of putting $50k through if no previous r/ship with Amex or you don't earn $400,000 a year!

Also agree with the supplementary comment - my father doesn't spend much and then went and bout $1900 of Apple products (he's a fanboy and wanted the iPad 3 the day it came out...) and Amex blocked the transaction. I doubt this would have happened on my card though.

I get the impression that the OP isn't really interested in this card for benefits or for supplementary cards though...

 

[wafliron]

I have paid over $750,000 worth of ATO bills on my black card, no problems at all.

Thanks for the data point. Not sure if Centurion has the same rules as Platinum though...

1) That is my understanding. It takes a few months for them to build comfort around your spending habits however you will be given an initial 'soft' limit when you apply - if you have current Amex cards this will impact your soft limit. ie if you've successfully held a card for a while and paid on time etc this will be in your favour.

No current card unfortunately. I did have a direct-issued Amex credit card for a few years (with a perfect payment history), but the amounts running through it would have been much smaller and it has been closed for quite a number of years now.

2) Amex are open to a discussion and comments from others on here indicates they sometime negotiate with you. I can't imagine they would let a 'new to Amex' customer (assuming you don't already hold a card with them) put through a $50000 transaction without you having built up a history of charging and paying over time. They may say they'll allow the charge if you contribute a part payment upfront however - this is kind of like the 'cycling' you referred to when you have a CC limit... Amex will want to see that you actually have cash to pay for this transaction before they allow it

1&2. Amex works on spending patterns. So, if you put through 200k per month, your effective limit would be around 400k. To put through say a 50k bill to start off with, you might need to call them and let them know, or if they don't decline it, they might make you to pay early the first time. However, they are usually happy after that.

Hmm... does anyone have any feedback on how long is takes Amex to become "comfortable" with a high spending pattern for a new cardholder? I don't mind having to keep the amounts relatively small / prepay some / whatever for the first month or three, but I don't want to be sitting here 6 months in and still having to battle Amex to put through $50k (or even many times this, which is the eventual goal).

Also, anyone have any feedback on how Amex view a "lumpy" spending pattern? My tax payments will be larger every 3 months (due to quarterly BAS + company tax installment) - e.g. $x, $x, 6 x $x, $x, $x, 6 x $x. Assuming I can convince Amex to let me put through the first/second large amount, should this set a spending pattern in their system that allows future large payments every quarter without issues? Or is it likely to continue to be a problem due to the drop-back to a lower amount for two months in between each large payment?

<snip>

Their credit department will also take financials to substantiate a "limit". If you let them know how much you will be shifting your payment to amex, then they will be happy with letting the transactions through after looking at your financials.

This will be an entirely personal card and financials are N/A - even though I'll be paying business tax, I'm an employee of the business. Do you know if Amex's credit department for will do something similar for an individual though? e.g. let a $200k payment through if I can demonstrate I have $200k of cash sitting in my bank account (through a netbanking screenshot or similar, rather than actually having to pre-pay it)?

Hope this helps. You might also want to check out the 'Platinum Card - what do I get for $900' thread in the Amex section of this site.

Almost all of these questions have been answered and commented on somewhere else around this site.

It was very helpful, thanks for the info. I know many of these questions have been answered before, but I was struggling to find consistent and in-context answers toall of my questions after quite a bit of searching, so I thought it prudent to re-ask and consolidate into one thread. Thank-you for taking the time to reply.

6. Some merchants can only charge on business cards in which your transaction may be declined using a personal card. ATO transactions are fine as they can't really differentiate what sort of tax bill it is.

Thanks for the info. That being said, do you know if business transactions are / are not technically allowed to earn MR points, regardless of the fact that Amex can't easily tell whether the tax payment is personal or business?

You might also want to consider getting a business card instead. It is slightly more expensive, but the bonus points limit is at $250k, and there are currently no change on the travel insurance policy. There are other perks that a personal card doesn't get too.

Sounds interesting, but almost certainly not possible due to the fact I'm an employee as per above. Also, FYI, based on a recent post in the thread complaining about the TI changes, it sounds like the business card is affected too :-(

Thank-you as well for the detailed info provided and the time you took to post it.

We have slowly built up over time and now can put all tax through the plat.
The only time there has been an issue is if +1 is traveling and I am not. Transactions on the card can trigger an alarm.

Thanks for the datapoint. Any feedback on whether the tax is technicallyallowed (regardless of realworld experience), or how long it took you to build up their "comfort level", as per my similar questions above?

With regards to building up over time, did you just slowly increase your spend? Or go through some cycles of pre-warning them / part pre-paying / etc?

Same experience with the 'build up' - the OP seems to be impatient and not want to wait...

Wouldn't you be impatient too if you knew you could be earning hundreds of thousands of extra FF points a year?!

I think you've got no chance of putting $50k through if no previous r/ship with Amex or you don't earn $400,000 a year!

I hope you're wrong - at least after the first few months Hopefully some extra feedback in this thread will help me determine that.

At the end of the day, it's really just a matter of me convincing Amex that these transactions, despite being large, aren't risky. The merchant is 100% bulletproof, the CC transaction is just "spending" cash I will have already have (so no real borrowing) and I'm a pretty damn good credit risk... but knowing all of this is one thing, convincing Amex is another.

I get the impression that the OP isn't really interested in this card for benefits or for supplementary cards though...

This is true. The Travel Insurance was very appealing, but it sounds like they've ruined that now :-( In fact, it is a bit of a toss-up as to whether the Plat (or even Gold) charge card is worth it for me over the Green... but I figure the extra MR points (both sign-up bonus, and bonus points for first $150k spend per annum) are worth more than the annual fee difference.

 

[sparoz]

Centurion is 500k @1.5/$ and 1/$ thereafter. It is cheaper to get two Plat Cards or in your case, Plat + Plat reserve will get you close to Cent.

Lumpy spending pattern is okay as long as there is a pattern.

I am not sure how amex credit can substantiate if you haven't got a large enough income, but if you have already been paying for the tax with another credit card, but you have to pay early - showing them that statement would be more beneficial I would guess. If you have 200k in the bank, you might just want to tell them you are going to put through 50k, and you are going to put $ into the card the first time. There is no guarantee, but you shouldn't have any problem the 2nd time around. My brother a couple years ago was putting through very large amounts (up to about 200k, but much smaller transactions) when he first got the card, and they actually let through the charges but call for the payment early. Happened for two months in a row, but no problem after. Amex credit department works in mysteries ways so I don't think you can find firm answers that applies to your particular situation.

I haven't read through the T&C for MR for a while, but I don't recall it mentioned anything that you can't put through business transactions.

 

[Daggs01]

Because its a charge card you are able to prepay which establishes history. Generally three months worth of prepayment is enough.

If the money is in the bank and going to be used for ato, pay that onto the card then use it. Do that a couple of times and you should subsequently be able to keep your money in your bank and use the card.


Sent from my GT-I9100 using AustFreqFly

 

[Ricardo]

If you are making a large purchase outside your normal spending pattern it may pay to ring and tell them, esp if your a new cardmember, I have done this a couple of times before purchasing outside my normal spend pattern, was not a problem.

 

[wafliron]

Centurion is 500k @1.5/$ and 1/$ thereafter. It is cheaper to get two Plat Cards or in your case, Plat + Plat reserve will get you close to Cent.

Yup, the little bit of W in me would like a Cent card, but no way can I justify the fee (not to mention I'd need to get an invite first).

Lumpy spending pattern is okay as long as there is a pattern.

That's good to know - thanks.

I am not sure how amex credit can substantiate if you haven't got a large enough income, but if you have already been paying for the tax with another credit card, but you have to pay early - showing them that statement would be more beneficial I would guess. If you have 200k in the bank, you might just want to tell them you are going to put through 50k, and you are going to put $ into the card the first time. There is no guarantee, but you shouldn't have any problem the 2nd time around. My brother a couple years ago was putting through very large amounts (up to about 200k, but much smaller transactions) when he first got the card, and they actually let through the charges but call for the payment early. Happened for two months in a row, but no problem after. Amex credit department works in mysteries ways so I don't think you can find firm answers that applies to your particular situation.

Thanks for the info / suggestions. I guess I'll just have to ring and ask... hopefully their CS people are not just script-drones :-/

I haven't read through the T&C for MR for a while, but I don't recall it mentioned anything that you can't put through business transactions.

Thanks.

Because its a charge card you are able to prepay which establishes history. Generally three months worth of prepayment is enough.

If the money is in the bank and going to be used for ato, pay that onto the card then use it. Do that a couple of times and you should subsequently be able to keep your money in your bank and use the card.

Thanks for the tip. I can (and will, if required) pre-pay as you suggest, but I don't want to keep doing that - not having that money in my bank account is costing me money, which partly offsets the surcharges on CC tax payments.

 

[awilcockson]

1) From what I've read it sounds like while there is officially no credit limit on Amex charge cards, there is in fact a hidden "soft limit", which, if exceeded, will result in Amex declining the large (soft limit exceeding) transaction and/or barring the card until it is paid off. Is this correct?

Correct.

I was all excited when I was approved for my Plat Charge Card. Not so excited when I received a call just after my first statement was issued saying that they were "uncomfortable with the outstanding balance on the card, and wondering when I was going to pay it off?". This was with a $6K balance, $900 of which was the yearly fee!!!!

 

[wafliron]

Correct.

I was all excited when I was approved for my Plat Charge Card. Not so excited when I received a call just after my first statement was issued saying that they were "uncomfortable with the outstanding balance on the card, and wondering when I was going to pay it off?". This was with a $6K balance, $900 of which was the yearly fee!!!!

Yeah I stumbled across your original thread complaining about this :evil: I'd be very annoyed if $6k was all I achieved too, but I assume whatever my initial soft limit is I'll be able to work it up much higher through pre-payments etc

 

[awilcockson]

Yeah I stumbled across your original thread complaining about this :evil: I'd be very annoyed if $6k was all I achieved too, but I assume whatever my initial soft limit is I'll be able to work it up much higher through pre-payments etc

No doubt that could be done. The thing that infuriated me was the condescending tone of the call, and having to justify any upcoming expenses before I was grudgingly told that they would "authorise another $500 of credit, but any amount over that would be declined".

 

[greenfrog86]

Correct.

I was all excited when I was approved for my Plat Charge Card. Not so excited when I received a call just after my first statement was issued saying that they were "uncomfortable with the outstanding balance on the card, and wondering when I was going to pay it off?". This was with a $6K balance, $900 of which was the yearly fee!!!!

This is why I asked if the OP had an existing relationship with Amex...

Before I got my first charge card I had an Amex CC and always paid on time etc. Once I got the Plat Charge I asked them a lot of questions and they indicated that the first few months is a bit of a testing ground for them where they set your 'soft' limit based on your transaction and payment history. So if you spend $10k each month for the first three months and pay it on time and in full then they know that's likely to be a habit for you and that you can support it...

I wanted to know what my 'soft' limit was so they did some test transactions and I could easily spend $10k per month without an issue - given my income and spend history this far exceeded what I was actually going to spend so I was quite happy with that amount. Now I've had it for well over a year I would imagine that I could probably put through thousands more than that and not have an issue.

Regarding the question from the OP about the CS staff - the wonder of the Plat Charge is that the staff are well trained and happy to have a real conversation with you rather than just vomiting up whatever is on their screen like companies such as Citibank do...

 

[aplmac]

This is why I asked if the OP had an existing relationship with Amex...

Before I got my first charge card I had an Amex CC and always paid on time etc. Once I got the Plat Charge I asked them a lot of questions and they indicated that the first few months is a bit of a testing ground for them where they set your 'soft' limit based on your transaction and payment history. So if you spend $10k each month for the first three months and pay it on time and in full then they know that's likely to be a habit for you and that you can support it...

I wanted to know what my 'soft' limit was so they did some test transactions and I could easily spend $10k per month without an issue - given my income and spend history this far exceeded what I was actually going to spend so I was quite happy with that amount. Now I've had it for well over a year I would imagine that I could probably put through thousands more than that and not have an issue.

Regarding the question from the OP about the CS staff - the wonder of the Plat Charge is that the staff are well trained and happy to have a real conversation with you rather than just vomiting up whatever is on their screen like companies such as Citibank do...

I have to say the whole 'soft limit' thing is a curious beast. I got offered the Platinum Charge card after around 25 years of rising through the coloured ranks without missing a beat and even having a Platinum CC for a couple of years or so, then the one time I wanted to use it it was declined by the credit department because of no history with the card! What was the point of going through the whole process of issuing it to me if I couldn't use it when I needed to!

So, bottom line is that regardless of your previous relationship standing and creditworthiness with them, the charge card is a totally fresh start. If you want to be able to spend substantially on it, you have to start with baby steps and work up a history, or it'll be inconveniently declined.

 

[Stephen65]

1) From what I've read it sounds like while there is officially no credit limit on Amex charge cards, there is in fact a hidden "soft limit", which, if exceeded, will result in Amex declining the large (soft limit exceeding) transaction and/or barring the card until it is paid off. Is this correct?

Yes. I also suspect Amex might decline smaller transactions under your soft limit if they have concerns about who the recipient is.

2) Assuming yes to #1, are Amex "flexible" on this soft limit if they are pre-warned of large transactions? Asssuming I sign up for a charge card I'd be wanting to start putting multiple $50,000 transactions (ATO limit for one CC transaction) through it each quarter, starting immediately, and I'd imagine this may concern them from a new cardholder! But if I can't do this then there's no point signing up for the card.

In my experience yes. I had no history with them prior to signing up for this card and I wanted to put an ATO $40K tax bill through in my first week. I rang them and they told me that such a large transaction would not be approved for me but provided I paid $20K into the card they would approve the $40K. They also told me that if this all went through properly then my soft limit would be at least $40K in future. It all did and I was never asked to make a prepayment again. Over time I have worked my soft limit up to over $100K.

3) From what I've read it sounds like payment of the full card balance is technically due when the statement is issued, but there is a 14/21 day grace period before any late "fees" apply. In practice, does this mean that paying the card off in full within 14 / 21 days will not result in Amex taking a negative view of the cardholder's "credit-worthiness" - i.e. there is only a problem if it extends beyond 14 / 21 days?

The monthly statement tells you what must be paid and when - 14 days after statement issue. I understand that there is up to a week's grace on top of that but I haven't ever been more than a day or so outside the 14.

4) Related to #3, do Amex charge interest on their charge cards if you don't pay within 14 / 21 days of the statement date? Or only charge late "fees"? I'd be surprised if they don't charge interest, but yet I can't seem to find any reference to it on their website... (not that I plan on paying late, just curious here).

You pay liquidated damages that may not be called interest but has the same effect as a high interest charge. Don't take this card if you can't pay in full on time.

5) The Amex website says the Plat Charge Card earns 1.5 MR points per $1 spent for the first $200,000 pa, and 1 MR point per $1 thereafter. Is there any overall points cap?

I do not believe there is

6)Do Amex (either technically, and/or in reality) disallow business transactions (i.e. paying business tax bills) on a "personal" charge card from from earning MR points? I had a look at the MR T&Cs and it didn't look like such a restriction exists, but TBH I was a bit surprised by this so I wanted to confirm.

I have paid about half a million dollars of tax bills on my plat charge and received full points. Plus when I made my first payment I specifically told them it was an ATO payment and they didn't care.

7)What is the MR points to QFF points redemption rate for MR Ascent Premium? I found the redemption rates for all the other FF programs on their website, but not for QFF.

1 MR = 1 QFF

 

[kaelo]

I've got a quick question about the card too.

In the text advertising material on the AMEX website it states ;

• Save on your flight. Our airline partner program opens the doors to substantial savings on international First and Business class flights[SUP]12[/SUP] when you travel with one of our many partner airlines.
  • Choose to save with Cathay Pacific Airways, British Airways, Delta Airlines, Emirates, Etihad Airways, Japan Airlines, LAN Airlines, Singapore Airlines, United Airlines, V Australia, Virgin Atlantic and Air New Zealand.

Can anybody detail what these "substantial savings" are? The terms and conditions on the website don't give anything away.

Cheers!

 

[sparoz]

I have to say the whole 'soft limit' thing is a curious beast. I got offered the Platinum Charge card after around 25 years of rising through the coloured ranks without missing a beat and even having a Platinum CC for a couple of years or so, then the one time I wanted to use it it was declined by the credit department because of no history with the card! What was the point of going through the whole process of issuing it to me if I couldn't use it when I needed to!

So, bottom line is that regardless of your previous relationship standing and creditworthiness with them, the charge card is a totally fresh start. If you want to be able to spend substantially on it, you have to start with baby steps and work up a history, or it'll be inconveniently declined.

Yes, every card has its own limit, and transaction pattern. However previous history of a charge card do translate across, eg a gold to plat, provided you don't have both! Credit card's history would not go across because it works completely differently.

 

[Deleted member]

I've got a quick question about the card too.

In the text advertising material on the AMEX website it states ;

• Save on your flight. Our airline partner program opens the doors to substantial savings on international First and Business class flights[SUP]12[/SUP] when you travel with one of our many partner airlines.
  • Choose to save with Cathay Pacific Airways, British Airways, Delta Airlines, Emirates, Etihad Airways, Japan Airlines, LAN Airlines, Singapore Airlines, United Airlines, V Australia, Virgin Atlantic and Air New Zealand.

Can anybody detail what these "substantial savings" are? The terms and conditions on the website don't give anything away.

Cheers!

As far as I can tell no different from buying a biz class flight with another Carrier .i.e. no saving.