Qantas Domestic Business Lounge - oneworld Emerald access Discussion

[Dave Noble]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

... as an aside for those advocating taking copies of the OW rules to try n lay down the law, test it out with an AA Platinum card and attaining access to the QF Business lounge at Sydney T3. QF deliberately and intentionally flouting OW Policy

 

[anat0l]

as an aside for those advocating taking copies of the OW rules to try n lay down the law, test it out with an AA Platinum card and attaining access to the QF Business lounge at Sydney T3. QF deliberately and intentionally flouting OW Policy

Aaaah...interesting pick up. I wonder why someone hasn't pinged QF on this one.

Perhaps QF would argue themselves out of a corner by saying that although it is called a Domestic Business Lounge, the Business part is cosmetic to the name and does not imply the class of the lounge. They could then treat it as a non-oneworld lounge like the BA CCR and impose any entry rights it wants onto it.

Oy gevalt - I could be a spin doctor too....

 

[anat0l]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

If they had called it a 1st class lounge then would have been fine. But they have chosen to call it a business lounge yet choose to ignore OneWorld policy. Hardly puts them in much of a position to complain if their members get refused admission to another lounge. I do know of people with BA Silver and AA Platinum who have raised issue with respective schemes yet nothing has been done about the systemic breaches.

Might as well call it something more obscure (i.e. don't use the words Business or First), because if it were a First class lounge then it'd be one of the few or only sets of lounges in the oneworld network that allows Business class passengers to access a "dedicated" First class lounge.

Either that or get an exclusion clause similar to what AA have explicitly on the oneworld website (i.e. AA elites on wholly North American itineraries have no access to Admirals Clubs).

I could make more spin on the name of the lounge that could be arguable that QF aren't contravening oneworld policy, but that'd probably be clutching straws.

 

[drron]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

Indeed. It doesn't sound like a systemic issue with BA not granting OW Emerald access in general ( and indeed I had no issues getting access a few weeks ago there )... as an aside for those advocating taking copies of the OW rules to try n lay down the law, test it out with an AA Platinum card and attaining access to the QF Business lounge at Sydney T3. QF deliberately and intentionally flouting OW Policy

Indeed and it also happens in BNE and MEL.

 

[aus_flyer]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

Indeed. It doesn't sound like a systemic issue with BA not granting OW Emerald access in general ( and indeed I had no issues getting access a few weeks ago there )... as an aside for those advocating taking copies of the OW rules to try n lay down the law, test it out with an AA Platinum card and attaining access to the QF Business lounge at Sydney T3. QF deliberately and intentionally flouting OW Policy

If you read the Oneworld access rules very closely, I think you'll see that an AA Platinum (and even AA Exec) does not have access to Qantas domestic business lounges.

I was tempted to make you go and look but instead I'll quote it for you...

AAdvantage Executive Platinum®

Equivalent to oneworld Emerald

Lounge access benefits: When travelling internationally* on any of the oneworld member airlines, regardless of the class of service, an Emerald equivalent member and one guest will be welcome in any of the oneworld airline pre-flight lounges, including First Class, Business Class and Frequent Flyer lounges.

AAdvantage Platinum®

Equivalent to oneworld Sapphire

Lounge access benefits: When travelling internationally* on any of the oneworld member airlines, regardless of the class of service, a Sapphire equivalent member and one guest will be welcome in any of the exclusive airline pre-flight Business Class and Frequent Flyer lounges.

* Solely North American itineraries within or between the U.S., Canada, Mexico (except Mexico City), the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean are not considered international destinations. This exception applies to AAdvantage members only and not to any other oneworld Frequent Flyer programme members.

Spot my point?

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

If you read the Oneworld access rules very closely, I think you'll see that an AA Platinum (and even AA Exec) do not have access to Qantas domestic lounges.

I was tempted to make you go and look but instead I'll quote it for you...

Spot my point?

Um. No. You misread the AA terms

Under AA's use of International, they refer to any itinerary other than that which is domestic within North America. Domestic flights within Europe and within Australia are perfectly valid for lounge admission.

As it said in the footnote

Solely North American itineraries within or between the U.S., Canada, Mexico (except Mexico City), the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean are not considered international destinations

If you have a look at the OneWorld site it is a clearer to read description ( oneworld - Lounge Access )

Emerald: When travelling on any of the oneworld member airlines, any customer who has earned Emerald tier status, is welcome (with one guest travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld airline) at any oneworld airlines' pre-flight lounges, including First Class, Business Class and frequent flyer lounges regardless of the class they are travelling in.

Sapphire: When travelling on any oneworld member airline, any customer with Sapphire tier status is welcome (with one guest travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld airline) at any oneworld airlines' pre-flight Business Class and frequent flyer lounges regardless of class of travel.

Exceptions:

1. American Airlines AAdvantage® Program: American Airlines AAdvantage® Program members, regardless of their tier status, may not use lounges when travelling on solely North American itineraries (defined as within or between the USA, Canada, Mexico [except Mexico City], the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean). In these cases, access rules are governed by American Airlines' own rules (ie paid lounge-access membership).

Qantas will only permit OW Emerald members to their business lounge ; AA Platinum members are permitted only into the Qantas Club, whilst Executive Platinum members are allowed into the business lounge. Similar with BA in that silver members are only permitted into the Qantas Club; unlike the OP's issue which seems to be a one off issue targetted by BA at him, QF's actions are a complete snub to the one world terms

 

[ajw373]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

If they had called it a 1st class lounge then would have been fine. But they have chosen to call it a business lounge yet choose to ignore OneWorld policy. Hardly puts them in much of a position to complain if their members get refused admission to another lounge. I do know of people with BA Silver and AA Platinum who have raised issue with respective schemes yet nothing has been done about the systemic breaches.

As far as the one off refusal of the OP, I would let it go; complaining won't serve any purpose; from experience it doesn't seem like there's a BA policy to refuse OW Emeralds access and next time will likely be fine , though if it is due to way dressed/presented etc, then perhaps dress more smartly if that was the issue

Dave

How is the Qantas policy different from the AA policy for their lounges? From what I can see the only major difference is in the names they give to their lounges. Ie the Qantas domestic business lounge is the same as a Flagship lounge and the standard Qantas club is an Admirals club.

 

[straitman]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

Yes I believe it will serve a real prupose as stated. I don't believe it will get an immediate action or satisfactory response to the particular event. I also believe that BA should be contacted as well to deal with the issues related to the specific event.

medhead,

We often disagree here but on this one I must agree completely. Every little piece of feedback is important and paints a small part of the big picture.

 

[straitman]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

How is the Qantas policy different from the AA policy for their lounges? From what I can see the only major difference is in the names they give to their lounges. Ie the Qantas domestic business lounge is the same as a Flagship lounge and the standard Qantas club is an Admirals club.

You are correct with your conclusions here. There is no real difference.

 

[ajw373]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

You are correct with your conclusions here. There is no real difference.

Yep but Dave will still carry on because of the lounge names. Never mind that AA have odd names for their domestic classes too. Now if Qantas were to change the lounge names of their domestic lounges to say the Kangaroo and Koala lounges then it would be fine.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

How is the Qantas policy different from the AA policy for their lounges? From what I can see the only major difference is in the names they give to their lounges. Ie the Qantas domestic business lounge is the same as a Flagship lounge and the standard Qantas club is an Admirals club.

The key difference is that AA is only restricting access to their own members. All other OW members are entitled to access their business class lounges ( branded as Admirals Club) . Making a restriction on your own memebrs to your own facilities is quite different; in comparison I see nothing wrong with Qantas restricting acess to the business lounge to their Gold members

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

How is the Qantas policy different from the AA policy for their lounges? From what I can see the only major difference is in the names they give to their lounges. Ie the Qantas domestic business lounge is the same as a Flagship lounge and the standard Qantas club is an Admirals club.

Except that it is specifically a business lounge - the admission of business class passengers together with the name is a good giveaway

The Flagship Lounge is the branding which AA gives to their 1st class lounge - business class passengers are not provided admittance

Access to a business lounge is OWS and OWE whilst access to a 1st lounge is OWE

The appropriate comparison with Qantas is Flagship lounge versus 1st Lounge

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

You are correct with your conclusions here. There is no real difference.

apart from the fact that the conclusion requires that a 1st class lounge is the same as a business class lounge

 

[ajw373]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

The key difference is that AA is only restricting access to their own members. All other OW members are entitled to access their business class lounges ( branded as Admirals Club) . Making a restriction on your own memebrs to your own facilities is quite different; in comparison I see nothing wrong with Qantas restricting acess to the business lounge to their Gold members

True, except as I mentioned the Qantas domestic business lounge is like the Flagship lounge and the Qantas club the an Admirals lounge.

So on AA if you fly first class domestic or are emerald you get access to the flagship lounge. If your sapphire or an AA member you get access to the Admirals lounge.

Convert this to Qantas speak. If your domestic business (same as AA first) or Emerald you get access to the domestic business lounge, or if you are sapphire or Qantas club member you get access to Qantas club.

So on a like for like there is no difference in lounge access. Although do agree using the word business for the Qantas lounge could lead to confusion. So the simple solution is to change the name of the business lounge to say Qantas club plus, then there could be no argument or confusion.

 

[ajw373]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

apart from the fact that the conclusion requires that a 1st class lounge is the same as a business class lounge

Which it is. Ie the AA first lounge (Flagship) is the same as the Qantas domestic business lounge.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

True, except as I mentioned the Qantas domestic business lounge is like the Flagship lounge and the Qantas club the an Admirals lounge.

So on AA if you fly first class domestic or are emerald you get access to the flagship lounge. If your sapphire or an AA member you get access to the Admirals lounge.

If you have OW Emerald you indeed get access to the FL or AC
If you have OW Sapphire you do indeed get access to the AC
As far as paid members go, Admirals Club membership indeed only provides access to Admirals Clubs ( no different to QC members getting access to QC )

If travelling domestically in 1st class on a 3 class transcontinental or international flight, then there is access granted to the Flagship (1st class ) Lounge

It travelling on other flights in 1st class, AA provides no lounge access ( similar to Qantas until relatively recently for domestic business class )

 

[straitman]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

If you have OW Emerald you indeed get access to the FL or AC
If you have OW Sapphire you do indeed get access to the AC
As far as paid members go, Admirals Club membership indeed only provides access to Admirals Clubs ( no different to QC members getting access to QC )

If travelling domestically in 1st class on a 3 class transcontinental or international flight, then there is access granted to the Flagship (1st class ) Lounge

It travelling on other flights in 1st class, AA provides no lounge access ( similar to Qantas until relatively recently for domestic business class )

So it seems that the biggest difference is that the Flagship lounge is only applicable to (OW Emeralds and) pax on three class a/c who are travelling in first. As there are no three class a/c (domestic) in the QF fleet they go the next step and call it (low and behold) a business lounge.

In summary the details of the 2 lounges are not identical BUT are as close as possible within the bounds of the flights that are on offer.

 

[medhead]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

medhead,

We often disagree here but on this one I must agree completely. Every little piece of feedback is important and paints a small part of the big picture.

TBH, I don't often disagree with you, but I do often put forward a different (weird) view.
More and more I think I need to stop replying to threads were there is no hard and fast answer.

 

[ajw373]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

If you have OW Emerald you indeed get access to the FL or AC

Same as Qantas, OW Emerald you get access to the domestic business lounge or Qantas club.

If you have OW Sapphire you do indeed get access to the AC

With Qantas OW Sapphire you get access to the Qantas club.

As far as paid members go, Admirals Club membership indeed only provides access to Admirals Clubs ( no different to QC members getting access to QC )

With Qantas, Qantas club members get Qantas club.

Haven't seen any difference here yet....

If travelling domestically in 1st class on a 3 class transcontinental or international flight, then there is access granted to the Flagship (1st class ) Lounge

It traveling on other flights in 1st class, AA provides no lounge access ( similar to Qantas until relatively recently for domestic business class )

Ok here is a difference, but as we were talking access based on status it isn't relevant.

So it begs the question then. What is the difference between lounge access, apart from the fact that Qantas calls their domestic lounge a business class lounge but treats it as a pseudo first class lounge? If they changed the name would you be happy?

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

So it begs the question then. What is the difference between lounge access, apart from the fact that Qantas calls their domestic lounge a business class lounge but treats it as a pseudo first class lounge? If they changed the name would you be happy?

If they claimed it not to be a business class lounge then that would be different

By calling it a business lounge they are deliberately ignoring one world rules of lounge access which state that OWS should get access to it