Qantas cancels 15 Dreamliner orders

[NM]

From news.com.au:

QANTAS has cancelled orders for 15 Boeing 787 Dreamliners and delayed the deliver of a further 15 aircraft due to turbulent market conditions.

But the national carrier says it remains committed to the new the carbon fibre jetliner.

 

[moa999]

So they have decided to backend the orders and not take any of the first batch of the planes.

No JQ international until 2013.
No QF 767 replacement until 2014.

I wonder if we will see a few more 330s with JQ.

 

[Harpoon]

Is anyone honestly surprised?

 

[oz_mark]

So they have decided to backend the orders and not take any of the first batch of the planes.

No JQ international until 2013.
No QF 767 replacement until 2014.

I wonder if we will see a few more 330s with JQ.

There are two more A330's in the works, and I would not be surprised if they pick up a few more. Something needs to make the numbers add up, when the QF mainline starts getting theirs, Qantas make the comment

15 B787-8s follow over the 12 months from the fourth quarter of 2014 for Qantas' Australian domestic operations and to retire the remaining Qantas B767-300 fleet;

By this, I assume that by the time they start arriving the other 14 or 15 767's in the fleet will have been replaced. Question is, with what?

So I think we can see from the annuncements some of their fleet planning, but there does seem to be a piece or two missing from the jigsaw

 

[Harpoon]

Will the incomming A380s mean some intl 744s can be cascaded on to lesser intl or even domestic routes, freeing up some A332s and 767s?

 

[Nigelinoz]

Can anyone give me some background as to why QF didn't order the 777?
With high fuel prices over the last few years and the 777's excellent fuel economy surely it would have been a good move?

 

[ANstar]

QF seem to have excess 767 capacity currently, so I presume some 767's will just be retired or replaced by 738's. (ie Trans tasman is already seeing this).

As for the 332's I also believe they have excess capacity with them (ie after they cut some HKG, PEK, NRT flying earlier this year) so wouldnt be surprised if 2 x QF birds move over to JQ....

 

[Kendall Roy]

Can anyone give me some background as to why QF didn't order the 777?

Not sure why but Dixon said it was one of his biggest regrets.

 

[mannej]

Not sure why but Dixon said it was one of his biggest regrets.

Perhaps the 777 was a plane that could cover most routes? I don't know but I always enjoy my 777 trips
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[oz_mark]

Not sure why but Dixon said it was one of his biggest regrets.

Not sure I remember the bit about regret, but I remember him saying that when evaluated the 777 they opted to stay with the 4 engine 747's, and not introduce anther type.

 

[Harpoon]

Perhaps the 777 was a plane that could cover most routes? I don't know but I always enjoy my 777 trips
Posted via Mobile Device

I think the 787 delays and A380 delays really chucked a spanner in Qantas' long term plans. Had they magically forcast the delays to both models they may well have jumped in and grabbed the 777-300ERs. But it's pretty hard to predict 3+ years of delay on both!

 

[Nigelinoz]

Perhaps QF could change some of the 787 orders to 777's :!:.

 

[docjames]

There's no point QF going to 777s now. The 787 is the right size to replace their ancient 767s, and they're getting the 380s to replace the 744s. The delay is bad (very, very bad), but to go to an older technology a/c may help short term, but stuff them long term. The 763s and 744s will have to do for now.



With hindsight, they could have gone to 777s, but they're too big to replace 1:1 with the 767s, and not quite what qantas would want or need to replace 744s, with premium pax to LHR and LAX/JFK, and with routes SYD to JNB and SYD-EZE not suitable to twins.


JQi could possibly be expanded now with A330s, but given current demand for them, how do you get soon enough delivery of new-build A330s? The only possibility for 777s is to go into JQi but that would add a whole world of cost and capacity that it's in no position to absorb.


With GFC, it would appear the correct course of action is to delay some 788s (and/or convert to 789s), get the 380s to sub for the 744s and then dispose excess 744s and/or use them on main trunk routes domestic +/- NZ routes (AKL) near the end of their lifespan (like the 743s were).

I'd say the 788s will end up with QF to replace 767s including possibly on domestic routes, 789s will initially go to JQi. Although i'd rather see them got all 789s (no 788s).

 

[Flying Fox]

I think that the QF 777 boat has sailed. Adding another aircraft type into the fleet is not prudent.

Its a shame that the 15 were cancelled as I expected a delay of delivery. That is, skip the 15 and put them on the end of the list. This way QF can avoid the initial batch with their potential problems and keep their options open for the eventual up-turn and high fuel prices.

 

[Evan]

QF really needed 4 engine planes for the polar routes and to places like South Africa and South America, also they wanted a bit more range from them, if they could get one with even more range to fly say SYD-DFW direct they would have maybe considered it again.

I guess there problem is they did not want to many types in the fleet also... A380, B744, B777, B767, A330, B737, (+ B717 & Dash8/Q400's)

Personally i am not a huge fan of 777's, they are rather loud aircraft.. but nice and wide as 9 seats in whY so thats nice.

 

[Evan]

And as much as i would love to see the early end of B767's i think QF made the right decision on this, the early 787's will be not great aircraft i am sure. Later ones i would be confident will be very good.

 

[dajop]

.. but nice and wide as 9 seats in whY so thats nice.

Depend's on who's 777 it is. EK have 10 across, not quite so good.

 

[pauly7]

Personally i am not a huge fan of 777's, they are rather loud aircraft...

+1, not a fan of the 777 -> noticed the noise factor a bit but for some reason all the 777 a/c and carriers I have flown just can't seem to make them work as well as the A330/340's in terms of layout, ambience, space and noise. Pretty subtle thing though for me...

 

[Cyclogenesis]

Given Jetstars use of a330/40s I cant see why these can not be used by QF domestically (340 is a bit bigger than the 767?)

Given use of the a380, delays in the 787 and aging of the 767 (and lack of use of 777) and also the fact the QF maintains the a330-40 fleet of jetstar one would think consolidation of the fleet (phase out all boeings but the 737-800s) would make sense...

 

[NM]

Also keep in mind that until the 777-300ER and 777-200LR became available, the 777 was not able to fly the long-haul routes operated by QF's 744 fleet. By time the longer range 777's were available, Qantas had already committed to a different fleet direction. So some current 777 models may be useful to them now, but once they get their mix of A380, 744, 787 and A330s working for them, they will have a good fleet mix. As already mentioned, the delayed deliveries of the A380 and 787 means that right now they are not in the fleet position they planned 5-7 years ago.