Qantas’ 787s [range discussion]

[hrqld]

Why are Qantas not considering using Helsinki as a European hub for 787 flights ex Brisbane?
It looks to be a similar distance as PER-LHR.
FINNAIR can distribute into Europe whilst the 787 continues to LHR. I hate flying backwards into Europe from London.
Helsinki is a lovely stopover.
Quicker from the east coast of Australia than doing a 5 hour flight to Perth.
I imagine Finnair are looking at ways to extend their reach here.
This could complete a 787 loop. MEL LAX BNE HEL LHR PER MEL. As well as the other direction.

 

[juddles]

Why are Qantas not considering using Helsinki as a European hub for 787 flights ex Brisbane?....

Probably because more Aussies than not, have no idea what "Helsinki" is

 

[hrqld]

If they are that geographically disadvantaged then they are also OK with a flight to Perth and a backwards one into Europe. 787s are not that big, so do not need to loose seats to people who are not appreciating it. If you think I am cynical it is because I have more faith in the average Australian.

 

[Robert K]

it all depends on what you define as average.

But i'm guessing there's a bigger market of people going to the UK?

you could always just fly to dubai and not have to back track?

 

[oz_mark]

Why are Qantas not considering using Helsinki as a European hub for 787 flights ex Brisbane?

How do you know they have not considered it? I am sure Qantas have considered many options (at some level) for their 787 fleet, and will choose the routes they believe will offer the best return.

 

[Himeno]

Might not have the needed rights to hub through HEL.
Australian carriers are allowed 2800 seats/week to Finland. QF would also want 5th freedom rights between HEL and LHR (which already has 7 flights/day), and may also need rights for any codeshares into Europe they put on AY.

 

[BAM1748]

I knew someone who went to Helsinki once.

Perhaps more economical to keep the existing London flights and those wanting Helsinki can go from there.

 

[serfty]

... or QF to SIN then AY to HEL ...

 

[Forg]

Surely Helsinki is further away than London from Brisbane, and also further away than London to anywhere in Europe other than Scandinavia & the northern ex-eastern-bloc countries?

No apparently not, it’s 1800km closer.

My guess is that they’re better off stopping somewhere in Asia (which is close to a lot of other parts of Asia) and then going to Heathrow ‘cos a lot more people are going there & coming back here (and to Asia) from the UK. And Helsinki is a long way from “mainland western Europe”, compared to Heathrow.

Does anyone know what a stop costs an airline?
Is there more than marketing in the desire to do Perth to London (and apparently with a later 787 oteration in a few years Sydney to London) in one leg? I can’t think of much worse than being in economy for 17 to 20 hours ...

 

[moa999]

Qantas has a limited number of 787s, though will hopefully add a few more for FY20 deliveries,

But it will put them on routes that can make the most money.
In Europe I'd think PER-CDG/FRA is next port of call and possibly replacing the 330 on PER-JNB if that becomes permanent.

 

[JohnK]

An easy option for the 787s would be SYD-ATH. Then you wouldn't have to backtrack for most European destinations. And what better transit point than ATH?

And if they can manage to get A3 into Oneworld then even better.

 

[RooFlyer]

I like Helsinki; been there a couple of times and wouldn't mind going back.

But I would never, ever take a non stop flight to there from Australia on a Qantas B787.

 

[RichardMEL]

What would going via HEL give QF and pax? It makes no ecomic sense.

The demand for AU-Finland (it's the place I'd quite like to be) would be tiny. Sure, AY can ferry people into europe, but you're looking at 3 hours more to LHR. What's the gain?

Going via SIN they can sell local traffic AU-SIN as well as AU-SIN-LHR (and beyond)

pax ex-BNE or SYD going to Europe are going to not really want to stop at HEL, as easy as the transit there is if they then face 2-3 more hours flight to the UK or Continental europe. Might as well transit at SIN for a lower overall travel time or PER

I honestly don't see how this could make sense.

If you ask me, if a 787 could do BNE-FRA or even BNE-MAD (IB hub) that makes more sense in terms of connection, but it's still not the holy grail of SYD-LHR which is what they really want, of course.

IMHO

 

[GoldCanyon340]

BCN would be a good hub as Spain is just over the border (see what I did there?)

 

[moa999]

And if they can manage to get A3 into Oneworld then even better.

Pretty embedded into star, and uses LHs MilesBonus FF scheme

Flights into IST then shorthaul codeshares on Pegasus might work (similar to 3K Jetstar Asia operations in SIN)

 

[kitkatff]

will try MEL-SIN(QF)-HEL(AY)-BRU in June, should be interesting. Heard a lot of good things about HEL and how quick and easy it is to go through, so if it's quick to go through Customs in transit that's a win on LHR. Plus the A350 for SIN-HEL instead of the A380 and the tired QF J seats - I've learned to enjoy the A350 on CX, and QF's 330 J seats are so much better than the old ones.

One semi-related question: will QF still codeshare with EK after May on flights to DXB and DXB-Europe? Because if no codeshare, no status point, so no interest in flying EK as I'm way off lifetime gold yet And the earn rate on Qatar is cough when chasing status, even if it's also 1 stop to Europe. So AY could become a good option if you want to avoid London and still get to destination in 2 stops at decent price, and get reasonable status (maybe a smidge less than QF, but close). Also thinking a couple of days in Helsinki could be interesting as well, never been there.

The lack of nonstop Oneworld flights to a lot of Europe from Singapore makes it a downgrade to me for QF, compared to Dubai - and I know a lot of people didn't like Dubai, but for the breadth of direct flights to Europe it is hard to beat.

 

[RooFlyer]

Fly QR; Still via the Gulf, but OneWorld, onward flights to Europe, and much better than QF and EK in J.

 

[moa999]

One semi-related question: will QF still codeshare with EK after May on flights to DXB and DXB-Europe? Because if no codeshare, no status point, so no interest in flying EK as I'm way off lifetime gold yet

Yes. The deal was extended for 5yrs

 

[Isochronous]

AY is a great option for Europe travel because it lets you route via virtually any Asian city.

 

[dajop]

What would going via HEL give QF and pax? It makes no ecomic sense.

The demand for AU-Finland (it's the place I'd quite like to be) would be tiny. Sure, AY can ferry people into europe, but you're looking at 3 hours more to LHR. What's the gain?

In theory, HEL is just as good as hub (if not better) for connecting traffic. Easy transfer, very little or no backtracking to a big range of destinations across Europe (eg SYD-HEL-MUC is 750 miles - or nearly 2 hours - shorter than SYD-LHR-MUC, and probably could also shave 30-60 mins off connection).

However as you point out, it just doesn't make economic sense. The big problem is the absence high margin origin/destination traffic to pay the premium for a non stop flight. So on single stops you're competing with EK and QR for single stops to huge part of Europe and CX, SQ, TG, CZ EY. etc for a smaller but significant range of destinations. Competition = fares not high enough to support ultra long haul flight.