Potentially Deceptive International Sales

[ethernet]

Problem: many people are wasting time on futile online searching on 3rd class 'sales'.

Many Airlines now advertise fares from, say $199 from startdate to enddate. Except they know there are no $199 fares , say today and next week, and any December ones are all sky-high - ie >$400.

When airlines have sales - and they reasonably know well the ticketed price in not available on certain dates - or even months- should they be allowed to re-advertise the same - knowing there is no such seats for sale? - Is this against ACCC/TPA?.

My observation is that they know about ACCC/TPA and bait and switch, and the FIRST time they have a sale, there ARE seats in all categories over the date range if one is super quick. All honest and above board it seems. All good so far.

But then you see the same sale and routes re-advertised,say a month later but on the 2nd,3rd go it is a farce and there are no cheap seats, as they have all been picked off the month before, and the date range greatly diminished, and they *do not appear* to have released any new seats. But they still re-advertise with the same date range.

Last Fridays xx International Sale sort of implied there were few December seats- but none at the lowest price, in fact you had to go back a month to find a cheaper fare. Similar issues observed with AirAsia, but have not noticed it with Tiger.

I think (depleted sales) are possibly misleading and deceptive, but maybe not so much intended, but rather a lazy practice coming from their advertising people.

The other interpretation is that they have legal advice to get it right in the first round, and can get away re-advertising it, several times down he track.

I do wish ACCC would ring the airlines, and say - check availability, and modify the date range to be honest, if there are no seats - then trim back the date range to meet the 1st available seat that is the lowest.

Only the airlines would know for sure, but I would like to them to smarten up, or for ACCC to ask the right questions.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

I suppose there may be 2 ways they gt around this

1) They add a seat or 2 at the cheapest price to get them thru the date range

2) The exclaimer that fares may not b available on all days and flights

I've generally not had too much trouble picking up the cheapest flights over the last couple fo years when flying JQ, AirAsia, VAust, EK

I do tend to book within a day or 2 of knowing about the cheap flights tho, so maybe that has something to do with my luck.

 

[albatross710]

I've got a legal phrase running around in my head along the lines of "Invitation to Treat". The airlines are inviting people to offer to buy seats at a price during a period. They may not be expected to have an unlimited number and on every flight everyday. A flight at the start of a sale period and at the end may be enough to satisfy the advertising people. Any legal eagles want to guide me on that.

As for satisfying us as consumers is a different story. I think that if you respond quickly to an advertisement you should have a reasonable chance of getting the advertised price in the advertised period.

In my experience I have usually been able to fill my needs in response to adverts while respecting how beautifully some airlines craft their specials. Easy to get cheap flights to a destination, higher priced return, dates that don't quote match etc.

I think the topic is worth monitoring for future sales to determine an acceptable level of availability.

 

[anat0l]

I don't understand what the OP is hinting at.

If the OP is simply bitter because seats are not available at times desired even though it said so in a sale, then this is a pointless thread.

If the OP means that airlines knowingly call a sale but fail to release seats on all dates at the time of the sale being announced and do not proclaim this fact, then we might have a case.

As far as I am concerned, if there is at least one sale seat per day for all days (note: all days, not all flights) in the date range supplied for a sale as at T-0 sale start, that's legal. Of course that's not entirely moral - in real life there is often more than one seat released at time of sale, even if it is the 3rd time the date range has been covered. It is just that for some dates, by the time the 3rd sale cycle comes around, that date may have only 1 or 2 seats opened up for the new sale. Perhaps some flights that day will not be for sale, but others on the same day with lower loadings will. There's still sale seats to be had, but some people still may not buy them due to the timing of the flight. That's not grounds for complaint.

 

[albatross710]

If the OP means that airlines knowingly call a sale but fail to release seats on all dates at the time of the sale being announced and do not proclaim this fact, then we might have a case.

I recall there was a case with Harvey Norman heavilly promoting a Quicken software bundle. I think the ACCC was successful in demonstrating that they didn't have enough stock in proportion to the expect response. Maybe this is similar.

The ACCC alleged the Harvey Norman Quicken Quickbooks promotion was advertised, and continued to be advertised, when the parties were aware that none of the bonus software bundle [Ed: cheap seats?] was available or was available in insufficient quantities to meet consumer demand.

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/568383/fromItemId/621575

 

[anat0l]

Planes will progressively fill up as time goes on - sale or no sale - and as planes get fuller then the chance for seats to be sold on sale gets less (in probability and quantity).

Expecting to cater for the "expected response" all the time is a bit much. Unless they do something similar to Air New Zealand's Grab-a-seat page, except extend it out to all dates. People will still complain that they logged on at such and such and then found there were no sale seats left.

A similar vein argument holds for QFF classic award seats; in particular, premium class awards.

 

[ethernet]

Some good points here, Invitation to Treat. Accepted. But the issue here - is about potentially misleading advertising.

If the OP is simply bitter because seats are not available at times desired even though it said so in a sale, then this is a pointless thread.

- I'm not bitter, just highly skeptical, especially when sales are extended or re-advertised.

If the OP means that airlines knowingly call a sale but fail to release seats on all dates at the time of the sale being announced and do not proclaim this fact, then we might have a case.

- Yes , I think that is the case

As far as I am concerned, if there is at least one sale seat per day for all days (note: all days, not all flights) in the date range supplied for a sale as at T-0 sale start, that's legal.

- I disagree, but think it is close to the money. - that is or would need to be determined according to the law. I also expect the degree of 'promotion' would also have to be figured in, and the reasonable man test - and projected demand - see Hardly Normal case.

If One applied that claim of at least one seat per day, using startfromdate to 10 December - then there should have been >20 discounted seats for sale in December. My observation before, during and after the sale leads me to suspect the last available cheapest seat was 17th November.

You mention T-0 sale start. If there were, say no seats in December, then they should trim back the date range, if they don't meet even the one seat test. And that is my gripe - I am skeptical.

I could be wrong if other people are running robot/automated sniper booking software and locking those seats, with multiple instances spaced 2 seconds apart - something a competitor might do.

 

[harvyk]

This is one of those cases I'm with the airlines. Provided there are cheap seats available, from and to the destinations advertised and they are easy enough to find and access, then I don't see there being a problem. In terms of readvertising, provided they explain that it's all part of the one sale, and that seats may have already been filled (which they generally do) I'd imagine they would be covered.

The example of HN and quicken is an interesting one, but without knowing the full facts (eg did they deliberately order less copies for the sale?) I don't think we can comment.

Whilst I can't comment on airlines other than QF and NZ, both those airlines give the option of finding the cheapst fare of the week. Provided you don't mind which day you travel on, they can in fact get you to the destination and return for the cheap prices advertised.

I believe that is the key, provided that a person can realistically take advantage of the cheap seats offer, when it is advertised, I don't see a problem.

For example later this month I am taking advantage of the $1000 US return fares with QF, and this will be the second time I have used these fares... They certainlly where only available on certain days, however it was easy to find out which days they where available, and I didn't need to jump through any other hoops.