Perth - Helsinki / Helsinki - Sapporo - Perth Advice Needed

[GLT]

Hi
I’ve been a member of FlyerTalk for a long time but first time posting.
Could someone please help us with this itinerary?
Outbound is Perth to Helsinki (9[SUP]th[/SUP] Jan 2017).
Return flight is Helsinki to Sapporo New Chitose in Japan (18[SUP]th[/SUP] Jan)
Sapporo back to Perth (26[SUP]th[/SUP] Jan).
Our dates are fairly flexible.

The problem I am facing is when I initially searched Perth to Helsinki return, the route was very straightforward, with a transit in Singapore. But when I did a multi-destination to include Sapporo, it became very convoluted and expensive. I checked through Skyscanner, Farecompre etc. When I checked with Finair website, there was no flight that could include the Japan sector.

Would appreciate any advice offered.

Thanks.

 

[moa999]

Suspect because you are outside Finnair metal.

Is booking PER-HEK return and HEL-CTS return (yes it will take longer) any cheaper.

Alternatively maybe a oneworld circle fare might work

 

[Cynicor]

MOA has your simple option. It is not a normal AY return, nor do JAL do it easily.

I would be interested to see what you get for a PER-(ASIA?)-HEL-TYO[NRT/HND, even KIX]-PER and then add in your own return side trip to CTS. This will be 20000JPY plus taxes return max, as you'll be able to use a yokosu/oneworld visit Japan fare.

I take it you will be going to some snowsports next year? I should be there around the same time!

Also, what is "expensive", just so we have a guide? A quick search shows that BA will sell me the trip above for 2400pp economy around your dates, without the side legs (budget 300pp return AUD). 2700 all in I'd say.

 

[Himeno]

Maybe see what CX is charging for a HKG-CTS return and fit it in as a side ticket on a PER-HEL AY/CX ticket.

There have been rumors that JL is looking at a TYO-PER flight. If that's the case, JL may have a flight to PER by the time you're looking at travelling.

 

[Cynicor]

Maybe see what CX is charging for a HKG-CTS return and fit it in as a side ticket on a PER-HEL AY/CX ticket.

There have been rumors that JL is looking at a TYO-PER flight. If that's the case, JL may have a flight to PER by the time you're looking at travelling.

Unlikely to be very cheap for the add on leg unfortunately:

Departing from their home market
Books out ridiculously fast
Sold en masse to wholesalers for ski packages as it connects well from PER and AU generally.

From memory the bulk of "L" and other discount Y fares sold out by early May last year.

The JAL option is good, but does anyone see it happening? If it does go ahead, I guess ski season makes the most sense. Wonder if a seasonal flight would be possible?

 

[Cynicor]

Interestingly, I can't get the CTS direct flights to price up currently. Hmm.

 

[GLT]

Suspect because you are outside Finnair metal.

Is booking PER-HEK return and HEL-CTS return (yes it will take longer) any cheaper.

Alternatively maybe a oneworld circle fare might work

Thanks for suggesting Oneworld circle. Have not done it before, so kind of confused.
When I went into oneworld circle trip explorer and clicked Perth – Helsinki – Tokyo, a message appeared to indicate that the itinerary can’t be done because itinerary has to be in a continuous direction and I cannot backtrack. So, how do I fit in Perth – Helsinki – Tokyo – Perth?
Thanks.

 

[GLT]

MOA has your simple option. It is not a normal AY return, nor do JAL do it easily.

I would be interested to see what you get for a PER-(ASIA?)-HEL-TYO[NRT/HND, even KIX]-PER and then add in your own return side trip to CTS. This will be 20000JPY plus taxes return max, as you'll be able to use a yokosu/oneworld visit Japan fare.

I take it you will be going to some snowsports next year? I should be there around the same time!

Also, what is "expensive", just so we have a guide? A quick search shows that BA will sell me the trip above for 2400pp economy around your dates, without the side legs (budget 300pp return AUD). 2700 all in I'd say.

Thanks for your suggestion.

Below are the pricing for some of the flights:
Finnair
Perth to Helsinki return – $2790
AY5026 PER to SIN (operated by QF)
AY082 SIN to HEL
AY069 HEL to HK
CX137 HK to PER

HKG to CTS as a side-ticket - $1152

TOTAL - $3942

Alternatively, we fly SIN to PER on SCOOT, go on Finnair for the Helsinki stretch, with another CX side ticket for HKG to CTS.

SCOOT - $400 (PER SIN return)
AY - $$1549 (SIN HEL return) AY082 SIN to HEL / AY069 HEL to HKG / AY5855 HK to PER
CX – $1152 (HKG CTS return)
TOTAL - $3001

On the Finnair web, there is a direct AY073 from HEL to NRT. But I can’t get it included into my multi-city itinerary. If we could fly the return leg via NRT, it would even be better.

I’ve searched all pricing through the airline websites and converted all to A$.

Would appreciate further advice/suggestions.

Also, being new to posting, I think I have posted in the wrong place. I think it should have been ‘Your Questions’ and not ‘Open Discussion’. How do I move it across?

Thanks.

 

[GLT]

MOA has your simple option. It is not a normal AY return, nor do JAL do it easily.

I would be interested to see what you get for a PER-(ASIA?)-HEL-TYO[NRT/HND, even KIX]-PER and then add in your own return side trip to CTS. This will be 20000JPY plus taxes return max, as you'll be able to use a yokosu/oneworld visit Japan fare.

I take it you will be going to some snowsports next year? I should be there around the same time!

Also, what is "expensive", just so we have a guide? A quick search shows that BA will sell me the trip above for 2400pp economy around your dates, without the side legs (budget 300pp return AUD). 2700 all in I'd say.

The expensive flight I saw was $6171, economy, flying Qantas PER to SIN / Finnair SIN to HEL / Finnair HEL to NRT and Garuda NRT to PER.
I saw the BA itinerary you mentioned but the connections are very long, with the outbound taking 38 hours, PER to HKG to LHR to HEL.
Yes, we are looking at skiing but not confirmed whether it would be Nesiko or Furano.

 

[Cynicor]

The expensive flight I saw was $6171, economy, flying Qantas PER to SIN / Finnair SIN to HEL / Finnair HEL to NRT and Garuda NRT to PER.
I saw the BA itinerary you mentioned but the connections are very long, with the outbound taking 38 hours, PER to HKG to LHR to HEL.
Yes, we are looking at skiing but not confirmed whether it would be Nesiko or Furano.

Price vs time unfortunately. Consider a few variations on that sort of search, but basically is a PER-HEL return via Asia with a stopover and see what you can price up that works for you.

Bear in mind you are travelling Peak, especially for Sapporo. And have a look at my recent skiing in Hokkaido thread if you want info on the areas. If newbies, I'd go niseko. If no need for lessons then furano, unless you want a large variety of apres ski options.

 

[Himeno]

Thanks for suggesting Oneworld circle. Have not done it before, so kind of confused.
When I went into oneworld circle trip explorer and clicked Perth – Helsinki – Tokyo, a message appeared to indicate that the itinerary can’t be done because itinerary has to be in a continuous direction and I cannot backtrack. So, how do I fit in Perth – Helsinki – Tokyo – Perth?
Thanks.

There are 3 oneworld fare products that can involve both Perth (South West Pacific) and Helsinki (Europe/Middle East). The 2 types of RTW fare, oneworld explorer and Global Explorer. The oneworld explorer is Continent based (3, 4, 5 or 6 continents, though 3 isn't available when including SWP), the Global Explorer is mileage based. Both of these require traveling through North or South America.

The other option is the Circle Trip Explorer. This is a 3 or 4 continent circle trip without crossing the Pacific or Atlantic oceans. However to include both Europe and SWP, you need travel via Africa. In economy ex Australia, this is an "LONEWC4" at $3899 + taxes, surcharges, etc.

The Circle Trip Explorer gives a max of 16 flights, with a limit of 4 in any one continent. You can use any oneworld airline (both marketed and operated) as well as QF coded JQ flights.
To use this, you would need to travel PER-SYD-JNB-MAD or LHR-HEL-Japan-Australia (with JP-PER options including connecting through HKG, SIN, BNE or SYD [JQ has flights from NRT to CNS, OOL and MEL, but they would only work if they have QF codeshares])

The online oneworld booking tool only deals with oneworld explorer fares. If you try to plan out any other fare type on the tool, it will give errors. If you go with a Circle Trip Explorer, it would need to be booked with a travel agent or direct with Qantas (or other oneworld member) over the phone.

 

[GLT]

Price vs time unfortunately. Consider a few variations on that sort of search, but basically is a PER-HEL return via Asia with a stopover and see what you can price up that works for you.

Bear in mind you are travelling Peak, especially for Sapporo. And have a look at my recent skiing in Hokkaido thread if you want info on the areas. If newbies, I'd go niseko. If no need for lessons then furano, unless you want a large variety of apres ski options.

Thanks for the Hokkaido skiing thread. That was very helpful. We've only been to Thredbo and Whistler and now first time to Hokkaido. Will still need lessons. Extended family will be going to Hokkaido direct, without the Hel segment. TA recommended Furano because it is not so crowded, but being first time in Hokkaido, we are leaning towards Niseko.
Flight-wise, we will probably fly to Singapore on SQ, do a SIN-HEL return with AY and HKG-PER on CX.

 

[GLT]

Maybe see what CX is charging for a HKG-CTS return and fit it in as a side ticket on a PER-HEL AY/CX ticket.

There have been rumors that JL is looking at a TYO-PER flight. If that's the case, JL may have a flight to PER by the time you're looking at travelling.

It would be great if JL or ANA has a TYO-PER flight. Hopefully it comes soon because we will be booking the flights shortly.

 

[GLT]

Thanks everyone. Finally managed to get a quote.

 

[travelislife]

How much was the quote?

I have just booked my 6th trip back to Hokkaido for Jan next year. Nothing wrong with Niseko just not somewhere I would spend more than 2 days as the amount of people and feeling like you aren't even in Japan gets to me really quick, much prefer the smaller places.

 

[GLT]

For the above itinerary with Finnair & Qantas, the quote is A$2787 with a TA. For a more indirect flight, with TG to Bangkok, LH to Frankfurt and LH to Helsinki, it is A$1772. Will go with the more direct flight.

Also looking for best flight options for rest of the extended family who is going direct from Perth to Hokkaido in Jan.

Other than Niseko, where would you suggest? We've got adults as well as children, aged 8, 10 & 12. Two adults (grandparents) won't be skiing but happy to just be around and enjoy as a family holiday - no need for sightseeing. My TA is suggesting Furano. Any suggestions on flights and place? Thanks.

 

[travelislife]

That doesn't sound too bad a price for peak time of the year.

So with that quote you still need to add on domestic airfares in Japan? Around another $250 or so probably.

Alternatively I would have thought a good itinerary (well fastest travel times, least amount of stopovers) for Hokkaido would be:

PER-HKG-HEL return with a stopover in Hong Kong on the way back (CX/AY) and a side trip HKG-CTS return.

Otherwise cost wise there are some cheaper options with longer layovers.

AUD: $2300 pp.

Multiple Airlines / Finnair / Thai Airways

​

07:40
PER

05:25
HEL
27h 45m
1 stop (HKG)

​

17:15
HEL

13:05
CTS
12h 50m
1 stop (NGO)

​

10:55
CTS

07:50
PER
21h 55m
1 stop (BKK)



AUD: $2900 pp

Etihad Airways / Cathay Pacific / Cathay Pacific

​

15:20
PER

11:45
HEL
26h 25m
2 stops (AUH, TXL)

​

08:15
HEL

14:50
CTS
23h 35m
2 stops (AMS, HKG)

​

16:00
CTS

06:20
PER
15h 20m
1 stop (HKG)

 

[travelislife]

For that family mix, you know what Niseko might be best, ability for the oldies to walk around the village and grab a coffee, etc.

Also what type of accommodation will you be looking for as that can also influence skiing location. Niseko is by far the best 'all in one' 'resort town' in Japan. Furano is good with a car.

Also best flights to/from Hokkaido from Perth will be something like PER-HKG-CTS or PER-BKK-CTS I would have thought. I think those 2 are pretty much the only one stop options, nearly everything else out of Perth to Hokkaido would require 2 stops.

 

[Ausbt]

Other than Niseko, where would you suggest? We've got adults as well as children, aged 8, 10 & 12. Two adults (grandparents) won't be skiing but happy to just be around and enjoy as a family holiday - no need for sightseeing. My TA is suggesting Furano. Any suggestions on flights and place? Thanks.

Nozawa Onsen on Honshu. Fly into NRT or HND, then one semi-fast train followed by a bullet-train. Nozawa is a beautiful and compact village with lots to do for non-skiers (snow monkey trips, cooking classes, visiting different Onsens, just walking around and enjoying the ambience). There are lots of great restaurants and about six bars all up, and those are much classier than Niseko (again in ambience, not cost). The skiing is epic, if you get a dump of powder and are happy in the trees. The groomed runs are long.

January could be a little early, just depends. This year just gone the deeper stuff didn't come on until late Feb. Two years prior Nozawa was dumping pow every day from Jan 1, it was the snowiest ski resort on Earth in Jan 2013 from memory. Either way, it's a place I'll always want to go back to. I've done three to Niseko and one to Hakuba as well and I love both of those places for different reasons, but neither have the true feeling of being in a Euro-style village that Nozawa offers. Well, Euro-style village with Japanese culture. Hard to beat that!

But of course looks like you are set on Hokkaiddo so it's not a convenient option. Next time.

 

[Cynicor]

Wouldn't do Honshu this season with El Niño continuing. Hokkaido better odds for better snow.

As travelislife has said, furano needs a car. If not renting, do niseko, especially if you are mostly beginners. Furano is so much
cheaper that you could probably fund the car with the savings from food alone, too.

Rusutsu is also a possibility, but with fewer dining options and is much smaller.