Our turn to whinge on Australia-London fares

[Dave Noble]

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But travelling Britons are still significantly better off than their Australian counterparts.

For example, this week travellers flying economy from Heathrow (London) to Melbourne return on Qantas could find fares as low as $1183, including taxes.

Flying the opposite direction (Qantas, Melbourne-Heathrow return) would cost Australians at least $1965 — which includes a whopping $404.81 in add-on taxes, fees, charges and levies.

Qantas' spokeswoman yesterday said the difference between UK and Australian pricing on the route was a result of factors including seasonality, exchange rates and passenger demand.

Britons were still recovering from the effects of the global financial crisis and special discounts were needed to stimulate UK demand to travel to Australia, the spokeswoman said.
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Full article at Australia-London flights more expensive for Australians | Travel to UK

 

[Blackadder]

Would be interesting to see High season fares from LHR, and how they compared to fares here at the same time and alos high season.

 

[Dave Noble]

Would be interesting to see High season fares from LHR, and how they compared to fares here at the same time and alos high season.

generally still ime a lot cheaper for UK-Oz vs Oz-UK

Off peak it is not hard to find fares around GBP600 ish for UK-OZ ( approx $1100-1200 ) inc taxes. Rare to find similar prices the other way

With 1st and business travel there can be huge differences

Dave

 

[Blackadder]

Indeed, so in other words alot of BS from the spokeswoman to justify the QF prices ex Australia.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I also read this article last night.
Pretty much spot on Dave.
I also did a dummy booking last year, PER-TXL and TXL-PER. Difference was around $1000AUS.
More competition for QF maybe?
I read it from theage.com.au, same article though.

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/tra...e-on-australialondon-fares-20100127-my94.html

 

[ChrisBNE]

15DEC, both high season for UK and Australia based on S class:

Ex UK return LHRSYD - $2659.60
Ex Syd return SYDLHR - $3098.20

Seasonality does come into it through the year. (ie June is high ex Australia but low ex UK).

UK has three times the population of August, notwithstanding the feeder traffic from continental europe as well.

As cynical as you may be about the QF spokesperson's comments, and Qantas's fares ex Australia (or any airline for that matter), the general market is happy to pay for these fares and people are loyal to the QF brand. Why wouldn't they charge what people are willing to pay. They are a corporation after all, not the Salvation Army.

 

[tuppaware]

And now I know why Emerates and SA want a part of that . Are people to loyal to qantas for them to make a change ?!

 

[JohnK]

I have just purchased a QF airfare SIN-SYD return via MEL both ways for SGD966 (~AUD790). The first leg for travel end of June was on special for SGD412 while the return leg on Boxing Day was a super saver for SGD554. The same leg if purchased from Australia at the moment is on sale for AUD809 or the red e-Deal for AUD697. Not a super saver. :shock:

So assuming I wanted to travel SYD-SIN via MEL both ways departing Boxing Day and returning around January 7, 2011 and purchasing the ticket from Australia this would cost AUD1367.

The same ticket purchased from QF Singapore website will end up costing me SGD554 for outbound leg and current cost of airfare for return leg on January 7, 2011 is SGD567 for a total cost of SGD1121 (~AUD920). That is a saving of ~AUD450 and I have a chance of upgrading both legs as the airfare ex-SIN is booked in V class not O class....

 

[anat0l]

This is why we need a lot more serious competition ex-AU on key routes. VA would provide a nice run for money if they can supply a good product with much better ground service (QF ground service - even for premiums - isn't something to write home about (except for their lounges)).

However, given the relative volume of travellers in AU compared to UK (not even considering the proximity of the UK to the populous EU), that's probably not going to happen effectively any time soon. We just don't have a big enough market to drive fares to that kind of cut throat competition. VA may give QF a good run for its money if only it will charge fares at a level which it believes is "honest" (i.e. forget the whole philosophy of maximising profit, just charge people what the market will be "happy" with and expect everyone to catch up).

Can someone get an idea if premium class fares are also cheaper ex-UK; I am assuming this is the case, due to the far higher volume of premium travel ex-UK (a silly thing to say, considering LON has the busiest airports in the world). I think with the current BA sale, you can get F return fares ex-UK to Australia for just over or around GBP 3,000.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

This is why we need a lot more serious competition ex-AU on key routes.
Can someone get an idea if premium class fares are also cheaper ex-UK

I'm pretty sure that Dave Noble gave a very good example on Flyertalk recently about the price differences on F class, ex UK, if I remember correctly? Maybe he could dig it up or even post the link?

As others have said, more competition is a key factor. If Virgin was a member of Star Alliance, l would most probably fly with them Dom and Star Alliance Int. *Alliance, 25 member airline alliance, vs Oneworld 10 member. I know who i'd be going with. Quick question, when ANSETT went belly up, did Air NZ ever consider to team with, or JV with them to create a AirNZ/Ansett partnership? It was a perfect op to do something like this? Too late now...


Side note. My recent SYD-ADL-PER QF legs. SYD-ADL sector, only a muffin and coffee, l would have been better off paying less on DJ, and buying a coffee and muffin (actually, l didn't even bother with the muffin). It might have come out cheaper, l did book 6 months in advance.

 

[anat0l]

Quick question, when ANSETT went belly up, did Air NZ ever consider to team with, or JV with them to create a AirNZ/Ansett partnership? It was a perfect op to do something like this?

I believe this was some sort of idea. More accurately, NZ took control of AN (which lead to allegations that NZ were progressively using AN to spread out its debt and to strip AN of assets). AN really needed support from a much stronger member of *A (NZ was struggling to regain composure after AN collapsed), like SQ, but it was not to be. Mind you, hard enough trying to sort the paperwork through the AU government re: antitrust, competition etc.

Side note. My recent SYD-ADL-PER QF legs. SYD-ADL sector, only a muffin and coffee, l would have been better off paying less on DJ, and buying a coffee and muffin (actually, l didn't even bother with the muffin). It might have come out cheaper, l did book 6 months in advance.

If you had The Lounge access too, then yes, cheaper on DJ.

Refreshment flights are the same all over the country no matter how long the flight is. Thankfully (I hope, except perhaps ADL/PER) all PER flights from other main centres have meals.

 

[Dave Noble]

I'm pretty sure that Dave Noble gave a very good example on Flyertalk recently about the price differences on F class, ex UK, if I remember correctly? Maybe he could dig it up or even post the link?

Are you referring to http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...m/qff-ow-status-credits-21310.html#post292534

Also, the 1st class fares tend not to be seasonal in the same way as economy so the comparisons dont really nead seasonally adjusting

There are some sale fares that occur ex UK where 1st r/t to SYD was being offered for GBP3100 ($5650 ish ) by Emirates a few months ago ( with a GBP200 change fee ) ; QF was offering the much less inspiring fare of GBP3000 ... slightly cheaper but a no refunds, no changes use it or lose it rules as well as a far imo inferior product
. I was most happy with my purchase .. it even includes chauffeur drive services at every stopping point on the journey which made its effective cost lower than QFs

Can't recall ever seeing ex SYD fares for that sort of price

Dave

 

[2muchplastic]

....Can't recall ever seeing ex SYD fares for that sort of price

Hell no. I can't even get J fares to SEAsia for that.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

QF Australia Website
SYD-AKL, return, J Class $2295.70 ($AUD)

QF New Zealand Website
AKL-SYD, return, J Class $1141.50$NZD (=AUD$1138.07)

Both had depart/return dates in March, 2010.


QF NZ Website, do AKL-BKK (it will put in SYD connection), return.
It's around $1000 cheaper from NZ, with 2 extra J Class trips than a direct SYD-BKK J return. How does that work?

 

[JohnK]

QF NZ Website, do AKL-BKK (it will put in SYD connection), return.
It's around $1000 cheaper from NZ, with 2 extra J Class trips than a direct SYD-BKK J return. How does that work?

That is not just QF.

Take CX return flights TPE-HKG are more expensive than TPE-HKG-MNL, TPE-HKG-SIN, TPE-HKG-KUL, TPE-HKG-BKK.

 

[Dave Noble]

QF NZ Website, do AKL-BKK (it will put in SYD connection), return.
It's around $1000 cheaper from NZ, with 2 extra J Class trips than a direct SYD-BKK J return. How does that work?

Simple; they charge what the market will bear

Dave

 

[auriga]

Simple; they charge what the market will bear

Dave

More Aussies want/ need to go to Europe than vice versa.:mrgreen:

I don't think competition is the issue here... I am sure there are over 10 airlines which fly OZ-UK.

 

[Dave Noble]

More Aussies want/ need to go to Europe than vice versa.:mrgreen:

I don't think competition is the issue here... I am sure there are over 10 airlines which fly OZ-UK.

The same options for UK-Oz exist as for Oz-UK. competition is an issue in that , I perceive, that people in UK have no particular affinity to any airline and will choose whatever is available at the best price whilst in Australia seem to tend to be less inclined to look around and just fixate on an airline for FF miles or just think of qantas helping to keep the fares higher

I simply avoid the issue by buying my tickets ex Europe $6300 for a 1st class r/t is a good deal to me

Dave

 

[pauly7]

Indeed, so in other words alot of BS from the spokeswoman to justify the QF prices ex Australia.

Nope, they cover it off perfectly in 2 words - did you miss them?

Customer demand.

QF are one of the most profitable airlines in the world - they charge what customers will bear. Very well. They cannot charge the same premium from the UK - they are simply responding to customer and market forces.

I really don't get what is so confusing and why this keeps on coming up (on this forum) As John points out it isn't unique, CX leverage it in their home turf / strongholds as well.

There are some amazing J,F,Y 'deals' (its all relative) out of Europe as Dave points out - especially on the oil rich ME airlines - use them.

 

[anat0l]

I really don't get what is so confusing and why this keeps on coming up (on this forum)

"Law of the common person on the street":

Anyone who sells a good or service which is higher than the lowest bidder is a rip-off artist



Seriously, though, most people can't comprehend the difference too, because the idea of considering the target markets and demographics of demand is beyond them. Most consider a flight between two points to be the exact same thing (except one of them is naturally in the "wrong" direction!), so they expect them to cost the same.