Bonza Airline Discussion

[Saab34]

Perhaps the pilots could explain? How does the likes of Bonza without a AOC, casa approved manuals/checklists etc, able to operate any form of flight at the moment?

Is it all under CASA Supervision?

 

[PineappleSkip]

It overnighted in HNL and left about an hour ago. Looks like it's now set course for Fiji
FR24 | VH-UJT

Cheers skip

 

[dylarr]

Has commenced its descent into Nadi.

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It just landed in HNL and the two people making radio calls both had Australian accents. Funny because they kept calling themselves Bonza 1 but the HNL ATC were having none of it and kept using Alpha Bravo 001.

I just listened to this. It was strange with ATC referring to them as 'Alpha Bravo 001' and the aircrew responding back as Bonza 1. Then they had to clarify that they were 'Alpha Bravo 001' after tower asked them to repeat their callsign. As far as I can see, they don't have an ICAO designator and it flew with the callsign AB001 (but AB is only its IATA designator, not ICAO). So I wonder what the go is here. Probably a good one for the Ask The Pilots thread.

 

[justinbrett]

Has commenced its descent into Nadi.

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I just listened to this. It was strange with ATC referring to them as 'Alpha Bravo 001' and the aircrew responding back as Bonza 1. Then they had to clarify that they were 'Alpha Bravo 001' after tower asked them to repeat their callsign. As far as I can see, they don't have an ICAO designator and it flew with the callsign AB001 (but AB is only its IATA designator, not ICAO). So I wonder what the go is here. Probably a good one for the Ask The Pilots thread.

They can fly within Australia on AB, there are quite a few callsigns approved with 2 letter codes (eg HY - Hardy Aviation and PE - Pelican). But as of the latest edition of MATS, there is no addition for Bonza or AB.

If they are going to flight plan as ABxx_, then there's no difference between using Alpha Bravo vs "Bonza", as long as the flight plan contains the full callsign word (BONZA) in the remarks field. Technically speaking they shouldn't be using the callsign as their aircraft identifier if it's not approved (either ICAO or via the ATS provider) - but in reality nobody really cares. If they're going to use AB001 they may as well call themselves Bonza.

ATC rarely have access to the ICAO document with approved callsigns so they just read from the flight plan and ask the pilot to clarify if necessary - nobody is checking that it's approved.

 

[henrus]

I have no idea how true it is, but they should be taking off from Nadi around ~7am local tomorrow morning for a ~9:30am arrival on the Sunshine Coast.

 

[jb747]

ATC rarely have access to the ICAO document with approved callsigns so they just read from the flight plan and ask the pilot to clarify if necessary - nobody is checking that it's approved.

Perhaps not in Oz, but get your callsign even slightly wrong in some parts of the world, or have one they don’t expect, and you’ll have issues. I would have expected them to be using the aircraft registration.

 

[Quickstatus]

How does the likes of Bonza without a AOC, casa approved manuals/checklists etc, able to operate any form of flight at the moment?

I think there are different categories. This one without paying customers?.

 

[henrus]

About an hour until it lands. On route to the Sunshine Coast.



Someone got a picture of it in Nadi yesterday:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553690610481397760

 

[justinbrett]

Perhaps not in Oz, but get your callsign even slightly wrong in some parts of the world, or have one they don’t expect, and you’ll have issues. I would have expected them to be using the aircraft registration.

Agree - as I pointed out, they shouldn't be planning on ABxx_ - my point was if they're already doing that, it's neither here nor there to call themselves Bonza. The sin was planning on ABxx_ in the first place, vice VH-xx_. In fact wouldn't surprise me if the HNL controllers thought ABxx_ was a registration.

I have a friend who was very annoyed by Alliance planning on QFA callsigns recently, without having OPR/Alliance in the remarks field (and still flying in Alliance livery). Yes, obviously QF mainline don't operate E190s, but it is very strange for a subsidiary or contractor to be using the QFA prefix - they all have their own (QLK, QJE etc). He was cough enough to be annoyed by it but not cough enough to chase it any further. I guess that's the same everywhere, but don't think it's a sweeping statement that Australia generally has lazy ATC.

 

[henrus]

Now landed on the Sunshine Coat, most tracked aircraft globally on FR24 with 620 people following the landing.

 

[henrus]

they shouldn't be planning on ABxx_

Unless there is a really small chance that CASA has approved some form of AOC that allows this?

 

[justinbrett]

Unless there is a really small chance that CASA has approved some form of AOC that allows this?

CASA and the AOC have nothing to do with callsign approval.

It would be from Airservices Australia and published in MATS (Manual of Air Traffic Services). That also has no authority outside of the Australian FIRs - the only way to have a callsign approved internationally is through ICAO (which would be three letters) or individual approval with each ATS provider (Airservices equivalent) - in this case would require the FAA and Fiji (believe that's CAAF).

But also refer to my original point, most ATC are either going to process as read without asking questions (seems to be what HNL ATC did) or at best ask the pilot to clarify. In the list of sins you can do with ATC, that one is right down the bottom of the list.

But there is nothing in MATS yet to cover this, though I expect they've already submitted their request and it's waiting to be published.

 

[henrus]

It would be from Airservices Australia and published in MATS (Manual of Air Traffic Services). That also has no authority outside of the Australian FIRs - the only way to have a callsign approved internationally is through ICAO (which would be three letters) or individual approval with each ATS provider (Airservices equivalent) - in this case would require the FAA and Fiji (believe that's CAAF).

As Bonza intends to be domestic only, does this mean they could potentially get away without an ICAO code?

 

[justinbrett]

As Bonza intends to be domestic only, does this mean they could potentially get away without an ICAO code?

Absolutely. Air North used TL for many years on their flight plans (they now use ANO).

FlyPelican doesn't have an ICAO code, they plan on PE (which is as per MATS - but not their IATA code).

 

[AisleSeat]

I've just realised that the thumbs up "b" looks very reminiscent of the crossed fingers logo of the UK national lottery.

 

[henrus]

Interesting things on AA.

Touchdown! First Bonza 737 lands in Australia

Bonza has confirmed that its first Boeing 737 MAX aircraft has landed on the Sunshine Coast on Monday morning, as the budget startup speeds towards its commercial launch in

australianaviation.com.au

The aircraft will apparently have it's interior fitted out in Australia, this is surprising because there are already seats onboard?
Also this first aircraft will be a "spare" used when things go wrong.

 

[justinbrett]

Interesting things on AA.

Touchdown! First Bonza 737 lands in Australia

Bonza has confirmed that its first Boeing 737 MAX aircraft has landed on the Sunshine Coast on Monday morning, as the budget startup speeds towards its commercial launch in

australianaviation.com.au

The aircraft will apparently have it's interior fitted out in Australia, this is surprising because there are already seats onboard?
Also this first aircraft will be a "spare" used when things go wrong.

Strange business model to have a brand new aircraft permanently allocated as a spare.

Sure if you need 6 aircraft and you buy 7 so you have a spare, that's normal, but all seven would get rotated around so the airframe hours increase somewhat evenly - you don't normally have one that is only ever a spare. It's not a Broadway production.

 

[henrus]

Sure if you need 6 aircraft and you buy 7 so you have a spare, that's normal, but all seven would get rotated around so the airframe hours increase somewhat evenly - you don't normally have one that is only ever a spare. It's not a Broadway production.

I just hope that the rest of the 737 maxes (at least the first 3 including this one will be) are LOT aircraft that are not taken up and when they do the interior config in Australia they don't change much.

These aircraft are fitted as 186 seats in an all Y config, they all feature in seat power and USB plus the aircraft is fitted with a satellite antenna (meaning scope for wifi onboard).

The first 5 rows have 34", the next 3 have 32" and then the remaining have 30" of pitch. For reference Jetstar's new A321neo's will only have USB and 29" pitch.

 

[dajop]

Interesting things on AA.

Touchdown! First Bonza 737 lands in Australia

Bonza has confirmed that its first Boeing 737 MAX aircraft has landed on the Sunshine Coast on Monday morning, as the budget startup speeds towards its commercial launch in

australianaviation.com.au

The aircraft will apparently have it's interior fitted out in Australia, this is surprising because there are already seats onboard?

I didn't read it that way. Could mean seats being fitted, but more inclined to think it could mean some added decorative touches/branding to the interior.

Jordan said from here, the Bonza’s first delivered 737 MAX will see the completion of its interior fit-out.

“It seems only right that we bring home our first aircraft to have its final touches put on by Australians locally,” he said.

 

[jb747]

I didn't read it that way. Could mean seats being fitted, but more inclined to think it could mean some added decorative touches/branding to the interior.

They're going to take the aircon out, and fit it with swampies.