LONE5 issues out of JNB

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cbert

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Apr 17, 2006
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Hi

I am trying to get price for the following OW LONE5 fare but keeps coming up with this error and not sure what it means for flights out of and to JNB:


2621: One of the visits to Europe must be a transfer without stopover (less than 24 hours) between Africa and the previous/next continent. Additionally, travel may not include Mauritius/South Africa.


JNB - NYC - SYD - HKG - LON - JNB

or

JNB - NYC - SYD - HKG - LON - NBO


But it will allow me this:
JNB - NYC - SYD - HKG - DOH - NBO


I want the flight to NYC to be via AA, and only option is via LON. Therefore the JNB - LON - NYC flight causing problem when I try to fly back to JNB or NBO via LON.
But I thought the first flight your allowed a free stopover (not getting off at LON) in order to leave the continent you starting from, therefore it will be considered Africa - USA and not Africa - Europe - USA ?

Background on what I want to do:

I am in Seychelles and need to get to USA in August, return tickets are expensive SEZ - NYC but LONE5 much better value when starting JNB.

Cant start LONE5 from SEZ, maybe I can once AirLanka (Sri Lanka Airlines) joins in June and starting LONE5 from JNB is cheaper than MRU or NBO.

Therefore I need to start from JNB and because I need to get back to SEZ, I need to end in a place where can get cheap flight to SEZ, currently that is NBO, JNB, MRU.


However there seems to be the above rule about flying between Europe and Africa that is stuffing me up but I dont understand it?
 
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Are you doing this from the OW booking tool? Many chose to deal directly with AA or their GSA agent in RSA (MindPearl) to get a *ONE* with lesser surcharges. Guess you are doing a LONE5 to get to Syd. A LONE4 (less SWP-Syd or Asia) is cheaper. Are you putting the freq flyer miles to AA? For miles earning you can use all the 16 segments.

JNB-NYC is not possible as no flights. Its JNB-LHR-JFK or JNB-xx_-JFK, equal. With your itinerary there are 2 Eu arrivals/departures which is not allowed. Putting in DOH removes the 2nd Eu (LHR). What is wrong with returning via DOH?

Put your full itinerary in here MileageMonkey. However this may not be up to date with the recent changes of Russia east/west Urals from Eu or Asia. MM a private software independent of OW. It may not interrupt the rules 100% but the authors will change the software to fix proven errors.
JNB-LHR-JFK-SYD-HKG-DOH-NBO is OK
JNB-LHR-JFK-SYD-HKG-LHR-JNB fails
but this LONE4 is JNB-LHR-JFK-SYD-JNB is OK as is JNB-LHR-LAX-JFK-SYD-PER-ADL-CBR-SYD-JNB is OK

The thread on FT will give assistance. The oneworld explorer ticket FAQs in oneworld - FlyerTalk Forums
Also look the route maps in oneworld
Qatar & AirLanka (when they join) may get the result you need. QR fly from PER & MEL
 
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Thanks for reply,


yes, using OW online tool, as not sure what Mindpearl is and I want to get it all planned before calling up AA direct.


I wasnt aware of lesser surcharges going via Mindpearl...is it substantially less?


I remeber last time I booked a LONE4 (back in 2006), it was best to book and fly mostly via AA cause they were best OW airlines with least sur-charges.


Also wanted to go AA cause of the points (last LONE4 in 2006 got me 68,000 points which I still not touched!) and I understand they also doing the 10,000 Platnium challange again (I got that back in 2006 as well).


Will def be using all 16 segements but first want to get the main hubs sorted.


Thanks for your LONE4 option, got me thinking now might drop AUS and do ASIA as can get cheap budget flight from KUL to PER, I am not really keen on going around AUS except for spending time in PER.




My only issue is getting out JNB as not many options getting to USA.


You rightly point out, its JNB - LHR - NYC but I thought the OW rules would, because this is the first flight on the LONE5 and there no direct flight from JNB - NYC, ignore the first stopover flight at the start of the LONE5 and not include EU as one of the contients. So OW would see it as Africa - USA and not Africa - EU - USA?


Or maybe I am getting confused, because back in 2006 I did SYD - NYC via LAX, OW ignored my LAX flgiht as being one of my segments as it allowed it as uncounted stopover due to no direct flight SYD - NYC. Thought they would do same for JNB - NYC?
 
yes, using OW online tool, as not sure what Mindpearl is and I want to get it all planned before calling up AA direct.
Mindpearl is the AA general sales agent in South Africa (RSA). People have had success in the past emailing/phoning them direct. With the OW tool the airline of the first flight determines YQ Fuel & other surcharges, which would be BA. Dealing with AA (or MindPearl) direct ensures the ticket is issued on 001 AA ticket stock---> less $$$ surcharges and more AA codeshares. AA codeshare are much better for AA miles earning.
Recent Mindpearl contact, anyone? - FlyerTalk Forums
American Airlines


Also wanted to go AA cause of the points (last LONE4 in 2006 got me 68,000 points which I still not touched!
Hope they have not expired/will not expire. Worth checking very carefully


You rightly point out, its JNB - LHR - NYC but I thought the OW rules would, because this is the first flight on the LONE5 and there no direct flight from JNB - NYC, ignore the first stopover flight at the start of the LONE5 and not include EU as one of the continents. So OW would see it as Africa - USA and not Africa - EU - USA?
Absolutely not. All transits/stop over’s, where a change of flight numbers occurs, are used in the counting of segments, including non flown land segments. For example JFK-SYD QF108 is 1 segment, even though its transits in LAX. *ONE* rules are different from 2006, but the continent count method is the same [In 2003 I did a 28 segment LONE5 Was 32 segment until I changed the route]

FT is the best place to ask these questions. A lot of experienced people

Off topic: Must be a tough gig living/working in the Seychelles :cool: :mrgreen: :)
 
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I have never booked via mindpearl direct, and I'm not sure if many people do.

The general way it seems to be done (used 3 times now) is to call the AA RTW desk during their hours, have them create a record locator and itinerary then email mindpearl to book and pay. This was it gets created by the experts (or at least, those who do it frequently) but still ticketed in SA/JNB.
 
yeah tough life for me living in Seycheles surrond by incredible beaches and laid back lifestyle that isnt chockers full of people like back home!

but in regards to the LONE*, if I can understand the rule right......going JNB - NYC via LHR means:

1) Europe will be one of the continents included even if I dont get out at LHR

2) I wont be able to go back to LHR nor able to take a flight back to Africa via LHR

3) I will however be allowed to travel around Mid-east even though Mid-east is considered part of Europe for the LONE

4) So to get back to Africa, I have to find a flight from either Aust, Asia or Mid-east and not from Europe


thanks
 
You can down load the rules (effective 1Feb2014) oneworld Explorer Click on Terms & Conditions at the bottom and download the rule sheet (pdf file) of the bottom of that page.

With Africa it is complicated. I believe Mileage Monkey interupts the rules correctly. Asking on FT will get a better answer. If you (or the aircraft) touch a continent you pay for it. And in the case of QR Aust-Doha this is considered SWP-ASIA-EU (Doha - Middle East is in the EU region)

From the rules
For travel originating in Africa: One of the following backtracks is permitted

3.2.1 Africa-Europe-RTW-Europe-Africa
One of the visits to Europe must be a transfer without stopover between Africa and the previous/next continent. Travel may not include Mauritius/South Africa

3.2.2 Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa and the previous/next continent.

3.2.3 Africa-Europe-RTW-Middle East-Africa or Africa-Middle East-RTW-Europe-Africa
Travel may not include any flown or surface sector between Europe and Middle East
 
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yeah tough life for me living in Seycheles surrond by incredible beaches and laid back lifestyle that isnt chockers full of people like back home!

We visited last Easter - very, very laid back; in fact maybe a bit too laid back (it could take a long time to get get fresh coughtails brought to us poolside at our hotel in Beau Vallon:p)

but in regards to the LONE*, if I can understand the rule right......going JNB - NYC via LHR means:

1) Europe will be one of the continents included even if I dont get out at LHR

2) I wont be able to go back to LHR nor able to take a flight back to Africa via LHR

3) I will however be allowed to travel around Mid-east even though Mid-east is considered part of Europe for the LONE

4) So to get back to Africa, I have to find a flight from either Aust, Asia or Mid-east and not from Europe


  1. Correct
  2. Correct (it violates rule 3.2.1 - see Mwenenzi's post)
  3. Correct. It will comply with rule 3.2.3. The continent is named Europe/Middle East and it is split into two zones - Europe and Middle East
  4. Correct. So either SYD-JNB or HKG-JNB or DOH-lots of African destinations including JNB and NBO
Or you could depart JNB-HKG-JFK, JNB-SYD-JFK or JNB-DOH-JFK (this last one would require you to purchase directly from QR, the online tool cannot be used)​
 
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