LONE4 booking (ex-NZ) from AA desk

[Kangol]

I'm looking at a LONE4 about this time next year and have read here that if you book it from the AA service desk and have the flight originate in NZ, they tend to be cheaper.

The plan is a positioning flight MEL-AKL, then start the LONE4 AKL-MEL(or SYD)-SIN-LHR, LHR-LIS, LIS-CDG (or ORY): which will probably have to go through MAD, CDG (or ORY)-MIA, MIA-LAX-SAN, SAN-MIA-MEL, then MEL-AKL to "finish it off", ie that will be my "last" flight .

My understanding is AA can only ticket the LONE4 if the first flight is on an AA flight number.

I can see that if you go AKL-SYD-LAX, then the AKL-SYD sector is an AA codeshare (just as the SYD-LAX is, both sectors on QF metal). Is it possible to book that codeshare and then continue to -SIN-LHR, which AA does not fly to (or run any codeshare to) in a westerly direction?

Also to cut costs, is booking AA codeshares generally the cheaper option due to lesser taxes? (compared to BA, IB, QF)

I'm trying the online RTW planner on the OW website and it doesn't exactly give me what I want (this is for a dummy booking in May 2013).

Any input is much appreciated!

ETA: if I book the AA codeshares and credit to QFF, will I earn the usual discount Y SCs but half the number of base QFF points?

Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Terms & Conditions

 

[tuapekastar]

My understanding is AA can only ticket the LONE4 if the first flight is on an AA flight number.

This was not my experience a couple of years ago. Booked a DONE4 ex-AKL with the first flight being on CX (metal and flight number) AKL-HKG. This was booked directly with AA over the phone (via ATW desk in Dallas), not via the OW tool, which i have heard (but do not know) tickets you on the stock of the airline operating the first leg.

For the record, my routing was AKL-HKG-NRT-SIN-LHR-ATH-LHR-HEL-LHR-LAX-JFK-DFW-ANC-DFW-LAX-AKL (I know, only 15 segments - though there were a few side-flights). The first AA flight was LHR-LAX (metal and number). I had read where people have been advised that at least one ocean crossing must be on AA in order for AA to book it, so I factored that into my planning. The agent I spoke to actually offered me BA across the Atlantic which surprised me, but I took the planned AA segment anyway (not sure why, but it worked out as I used AA miles to upgrade it to F). If I had taken the BA option as offered it would have meant my only AA flights, metal and/or numbers, would have all been domestic US.

I've played around with the OW planner, but found it clunky. I use a combination of mileage monkey for the routing validation, and expert flyer for checking availability. EF is a paid service but there are a couple of freebies about, sorry cannot recall what they are but someone will know.

Also to cut costs, is booking AA codeshares generally the cheaper option due to lesser taxes? (compared to BA, IB, QF)

On every segment I used the operating carrier's code - i.e no codeshares. Booking via AA (for a ~NZD10 or 11K fare - can't recall exact number), the taxes/surcharges were around NZD700, whereas from a dummy booking on the OW planner using QF they were probably at least double this.

if I book the AA codeshares and credit to QFF, will I earn the usual discount Y SCs but half the number of base QFF points?

I believe that'll be the case as per the earning table you've linked to.

PS. for the record, current LONE4 ex-AKL showing as base fare AUD3211 and ex-MEL as AUD3949.

PPS. I sound like broken record on this, but I always like to highlight the following fare rule to people. Some agents are sticklers and some are not, and there are ways around it.

When travel originates in a country for which a specific local currency fares is published and the ticket is sold in another country, the fare will be that published for the country of origin converted to the currency of the country of sale at the bank selling rate. The resultant fare must not be lower than from the country of sale.
Exception: Not applicable for sales made and/or travel originating in Canada or when BOTH travel originates and sales are made within the European Common Aviation Area (ECAA)/Switzerland

The first agent (I rang the AA NZ number, which I think was ultimately answered in Brisbane) wanted to charge me the ex-Australia price (around $1.5K more). I ended ringing back the following week and agent #2 ticketed it no worries, but just be aware of it.

 

[Kangol]

Awesome, thanks for that - will do more researching/playing around with bookings. I plan to do the trip in mid/late September 2013 so I'd have to wait a couple of weeks anyway.
What is the time frame for advance ticketing - is it something like AA only book 330 days out and QF/BA 365 days?

 

[tuapekastar]

Awesome, thanks for that - will do more researching/playing around with bookings. I plan to do the trip in mid/late September 2013 so I'd have to wait a couple of weeks anyway.
What is the time frame for advance ticketing - is it something like AA only book 330 days out and QF/BA 365 days?

Roughly a year, perhaps a little less for most airlines (AFAIK). Availability for L class should not be an issue, at least not until a couple of months out, so no need to jump on it the day it becomes available. What i posted was how things went for me, as we know there can be a large YMMV factor when doing these things. Good luck with it!

 

[Kangol]

Looks like I won't be able to book it ex-NZ due to time, if I book it ex-Aus from the AA desk will there be much of a saving compared to booking it ex-Aus from QF?

I guess there would only be a possibility of me doing ex-NZ if I could get a late flight to AKL ex-MEL ie ~9pm (the JQ one isn't operating any more), any suggestions?

 

[serfty]

LONE4 Base Fares:

Ex OZ:

AUD3899 (~NZD4900)

Ex NZ:

NZD3899 (~AUD3100)

 

[Kangol]

Oh so no difference then, if an ex-AUS fare is the same regardless of who I buy it from (QF or AA) it might be easier to ring either of them on an Australian phone number. I might get a quote from both out of interest.

 

[serfty]

Oh so no difference then, if an ex-AUS fare is the same regardless of who I buy it from (QF or AA) it might be easier to ring either of them on an Australian phone number. I might get a quote from both out of interest.

No! NZ is cheaper by around AUD700.

 

[Danger]

ETA: if I book the AA codeshares and credit to QFF, will I earn the usual discount Y SCs but half the number of base QFF points?

Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Terms & Conditions

Correct. However, date, time, flight number and carrier changes are permitted after booking free of charge (other than, sometimes, an administration fee) so you can book on the AA codeshare and then change it to the QF flight number before travel, subject to their being L availability.

 

[Kangol]

No! NZ is cheaper by around AUD700.

Oh, so your figures "ex OZ" means the ticket is purchased in OZ regardless of first departure city, not the ticket has the first segment starting in OZ?

To be clear, I will probably have to have MEL as the LONE4 starting port, as opposed to a previous plan for having AKL as the start point (with me buying a separate one way positioning flight MEL-AKL the night before).

That means if I do the above will I be charged in NZD ($3899), if the agent does not try to sting me by going by the book...?

When travel originates in a country for which a specific local currency fares is published and the ticket is sold in another country, the fare will be that published for the country of origin converted to the currency of the country of sale at the bank selling rate. The resultant fare must not be lower than from the country of sale.

http://www.oneworld.com/content/library/3015v89 oneworld explorer 1dec12.pdf

Correct. However, date, time, flight number and carrier changes are permitted after booking free of charge (other than, sometimes, an administration fee) so you can book on the AA codeshare and then change it to the QF flight number before travel, subject to their being L availability.

OMG! Planning on crediting to AA now, so going from QF to AA or BA flight numbers doubles the RDM (0.5 to 1.0 per mile flown) in L class.

Thanks!

 

[serfty]

To be absolutely clear, to book or start the routing from/in MEL (or Australia) will have a base cost of AUD3899.

To book and start the routing from/in NZ will have a base cost of ~AUD3100.

This is because the OZ price is effectively higher than the NZ price due to current exchange rates.

 

[Kangol]

Thanks - I might also look into QF vs AA Australian desks for overall prices due to the difference in fuel surchages.

One other term I'm not so sure on is "segments" vs "sectors".

It says I'm allowed 16 flight segments:
oneworld Explorer - oneworld

Choose up to four segments within each continent (six in North America).[SUP]5
[/SUP]5. After departing your continent of origin, you may choose up to four segments within each continent (six in North America).

I'm going to start my trip with MEL-LIS (stop).
Since there are no non-stop flights with that route, I'll need to go MEL-LHR-LIS.
When I use the online RTW calculator and select MEL-LIS, that counts as "one allowance [of 16] used".
Does that mean if I only stopover in LIS and have to connect at LHR meaning two sectors, does that count as one segment? ie a segment ends with a stopover.
The booking engine is also showing MEL-SYD-LHR-LIS as one of the alternatives.

I might try and do MEL-SYD-MEL-LHR-LIS (stop) to maximise earning and F Lounge time - would that be possible?

It also says:

Enjoy two stopovers within your continent of origin.[SUP]7
[/SUP]7. You may take a total of two stopovers within your continent of origin in order to get to or from an international gateway. A maximum of one stopover is permitted in each direction in the country of origin.

So isn't a stopover >24 hours, meaning that if I did MEL-SYD-MEL [in the same day], then -LHR-LIS that wouldn't count as a stopover?

 

[serfty]

When I use the online RTW calculator and select MEL-LIS, that counts as "one allowance [of 16] used".

A flight segment is a flight segment - transfers have nothing to do with it.

MEL-LHR-LIS is two flight segments.

MEL-SYD-LHR-LIS is three flight segments.

It also says:
Enjoy two stopovers within your continent of origin.[SUP]7
[/SUP]7. You may take a total of two stopovers within your continent of origin in order to get to or from an international gateway. A maximum of one stopover is permitted in each direction in the country of origin.


So isn't a stopover >24 hours, meaning that if I did MEL-SYD-MEL [in the same day], then -LHR-LIS that wouldn't count as a stopover?

You can fly MEL-SYD-xLHR-LAS - the stopover is in SYD. xLHR represents a transit/transfer. (oSYD represents a stopover in SYD - the o is generally left off.)

I might try and do MEL-SYD-MEL-LHR-LIS (stop) to maximise earning and F Lounge time - would that be possible?

You cannot fly MEL-SYD-MEL as you can't go back to you port of origin until the end of the entire routing.

 

[Kangol]

OK so I'm getting around to doing this, another change of plan - the cities I need to visit (in order) are: Lisbon, Paris, London, San Diego, San Francisco, then back home to Melbourne.

Priced up a dummy booking online going: MEL-xLHR-LIS-xLHR-ORY-LHR-xORD-SAN-xLAX-SFO-xLAX-MEL
For some reason the SAN-xLAX-SFO was unavailable online (?!) so I selected that as a surface segment.

Got this:

This was before I did some research on the *outrageous* UK departure tax (APD) and also, $650 for a carrier surcharge?!

Today I rang up to price it with the SAN-xLAX-SFO leg included - they could see availability over the phone - and got $5197.32 (3899 + 1298.32). Interesting how more segments makes it cheaper... or is there a premium on surface sectors?

My aim is to credit all flights to AA except the first MEL-LHR QF9, so it would make sense to book AA or BA flight numbers where possible. Over the phone they cannot book the AA codeshare (7356) for the final LAX-MEL (QF94) and tell me the only way to do so is to do it online. The online booking engine only shows QF94.

Correct. However, date, time, flight number and carrier changes are permitted after booking free of charge (other than, sometimes, an administration fee) so you can book on the AA codeshare and then change it to the QF flight number before travel, subject to their being L availability.

I then ask if I can change the flight number after booking and was told very unlikely. I then rang AA and they also told me the same thing however their RTW desk was closed at that time so maybe they will be able to shed more light if I ring when they are open (1-800-247-3247, 0700-2000 M-F Central time).



So I decide to change a few things but still visit the same cities so online I price this dummy booking:
MEL-xLHR-LIS-xMAD-ORY (go to London and back on the Eurostar) CDG-xORD-SAN//SFO-xLAX-MEL.

Again the SAN-xLAX-SFO wasn't available online. I get this:

Wondering if that $160 or so saving is worth me avoiding LHR and taking the train instead. I mean, getting from Gare Du Nord to CDG might be a bit of a pain.

I figure if I do LHR-ORD instead of CDG-ORD it will all break even in the end not taking into account extra travelling time...

This is what I get if I do exactly that:

Danger: did you make any changes to flight numbers, codeshares etc on a xONEx ticket? Did you ring the operating carrier or the ticketing carrier?

 

[Danger]

I then ask if I can change the flight number after booking and was told very unlikely. I then rang AA and they also told me the same thing however their RTW desk was closed at that time so maybe they will be able to shed more light if I ring when they are open (1-800-247-3247, 0700-2000 M-F Central time) . . .

Danger: did you make any changes to flight numbers, codeshares etc on a xONEx ticket? Did you ring the operating carrier or the ticketing carrier?

Codeshares (and therefore flight numbers), yes. I remember one previous DONE4 where the AA agent I was speaking with didn't want to ticket my itinerary because it didn't have any AA sectors. So I threw in an AA LHR-America sector and/or (I can't remember, it was a while ago) booked the AA codeshare on the Qantas operated LAX-SYD. After ticketing, I phoned and changed to what I wanted, no issue.

Refer the agent to the oneworld Explorer rule sheet and, specifically, rule 11(a)(1)(a) and 11(a)(2)(a) (page eight).

From memory I made the changes by phoning AA as they were the ticketing carrier. However, I think in theory, once you've begun your journey, the operating carrier (of the flight who want to change to) should be able to make the changes. It's a good idea to 'shop around' in the event one agent at one airline tells you 'oh, there's no change fee but we do charge a USD75 admin fee' or the like. Say, 'really? Wow. I'll have to think about that' and call another airline (or the same one at a different time).

Please report back, too.

 

[Kangol]

Just booked over the phone by calling QF. It was ticketed within 10 or 15 minutes.
I used a $500 gift voucher that I bought for myself during the 10x points promo and interestingly enough I got charged a $40 service fee - presumably for making a change to a booking (the gift voucher already has a booking reference) instead of the $60 I was expecting to pay for a "new booking".

Called AA afterwards to get the record locator and asked re changing flight numbers to the AA codeshares but their RTW was closed. I'll try again tomorrow.

When I booked with QF, they couldn't offer me any AA codeshares (this was for IB and QF operated flights).

 

[Kangol]

I made a couple of changes to the codeshare flight numbers after booking through the AA RTW desk and only got charged a US$25 fee because it had to be re-issued on AA ticket stock. Very easy process, might I add.

There were only two changes: MAD-ORY (LA codeshare) and LAX-MEL (AA codeshare). Wanted to change a LIS-MAD as well but there wasn't one available (did some Google searches and Flightaware or similar showed there were AA codeshares available on IB metal, oh well).
Interestingly enough the final QF leg had to have a new QF PNR issued for those origin/destination segments - I'm going SFO-xLAX-MEL on the same day and that comes up separately on my QFF MMB.

So it looks like changing flight numbers after booking (provided they are available) is no problem!

 

[serfty]

$25 seems wierd.

Was it issued on AA ticket stock in the first place?

 

[Kangol]

$25 seems wierd.

Was it issued on AA ticket stock in the first place?

Nope.

Just booked over the phone by calling QF. It was ticketed within 10 or 15 minutes.
I used a $500 gift voucher that I bought for myself during the 10x points promo and interestingly enough I got charged a $40 service fee - presumably for making a change to a booking (the gift voucher already has a booking reference) instead of the $60 I was expecting to pay for a "new booking".

As an aside, the QF rules say you can't use the gift voucher for multi-city bookings, but you can for (what I perceive to be) more complex oneworld tickets with surface segments - which I guess could be classed as the same thing. eg what would a QF1 and QF108 with a surface segment between LHR and JFK be classed as? Oh well.



If I didn't have the voucher I probably would have had it ticketed on AA - that was what I was asking in post #5 (and kinda #12) in a very unclear manner (sorry) - ie. AA ticket stock vs QF ticket stock. That way I probably wouldn't have to change some flights to AA codeshares after ticketing.

I could probably look for it somewhere, but my guess is AA's surcharges are less than QF's (when the same fare is ticketed with AA)?

I couldn't do a dummy pricing quote with AA over the phone because they would charge me for that... yes, for a quote over the phone!!
Should have acted like I was going to book it and changed my mind at the last minute