Jetstar International Flight Damaged Checked Luggage

[Ambo]

Hey All,

Has anyone had any experience dealing with damaged baggage with Jetstar on an international flight?

I tried searching but came up with other carriers or domestic legs.

I bought a suitcase 6 months ago and when returning from Singapore to Melbourne, I discovered that there is what appears to be a nice big puncture or cut in the luggage. I reported to a Jetstar CSR who looked at it and say we wont cover it because it has not affected the structural integrity of the suit case. Me being tired, naive and totally stupid did not insist in reporting it Baggage Services. As soon as I got home I thought I will lodge a claim via their online report.



Eventually I got a reply from Jetstar saying

"[FONT=&amp]I’m afraid I can’t accept your claim on this occasion, as we are not liable for normal wear and tear of baggage, such as small scratches, scuffs, dents and cuts. We take care to explain this in our Conditions of Carriage."[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]

I said I was disappoint and wanted a review as the suitcase is 6 months old and not exactly been used extensively. [/FONT]3 international flights and maybe 2 domestic flights. I asked for a review or for a supervisor (again probably naivety asking for a supervisor), I further said I do not believe this damage is normal wear and tear.

I have literally just received an email back from them as I write this post

[FONT=&amp]"Thank you for contacting Jetstar and for your reply to my letter dated 2 July. I’m sorry to hear that you were disappointed with my response.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]When bags are accepted at check-in, it is normally assumed that they’re properly packed and can withstand the normal baggage process (i.e. baggage travelling on conveyor belts, loaded between aircraft and terminals). As bag exteriors, including handles/zips/wheels are considered susceptible to damage throughout the baggage handling process, I’m afraid we can’t accept your claim on this occasion.[/FONT]"

Do I have any legs to stand on?

I'm thinking about Consumer Affairs, ACCC and or the Airline Advocate. Does anyone have any experiences dealing with these?
I have heard about the Montreal convention and tried looking at some research but I'm a bit confused.

My main concern is the puncture or laceration is deep and will cause more rapid wear and tear or more complete disruption to structural integrity.

Kind Regards
Ambo

PS sorry about the large image

 

[Boca68]

I can understand your frustration, but assuming the terms and conditions relayed to you by the CSR are correct, I don't think you have a snowflakes chance in hell.

That being said, those T&C's sound fairly standard. Mainly because who do you actually claim against, Jetstar or the Melbourne Airport Authority? Or possibly the corresponding Singapore organisation? I'm sure they will handball it back and forth. Basically because, it will be almost impossible to define actually when the damage occurred. Jetstar have not done you any favours, but they really don't have to. The damage, in my estimate, is slight.

And the Montreal Convention, that is a bit extreme! Bit like calling in the US Marines to deal with a couple of kids with slug guns. Its meant for serious contraventions, i.e. terrorists, fatal crashes, deaths, serious injuries. Not some poor guy with a slightly damaged suitcase.

It would be cheaper, just to go buy a nice new Samsonite or Vuitton bag.


Travel Insurance? If you have it, I'm sure they would cover replacement of said luggage

 

[Alanslegal]

For me, it looks like wear and tear to me and the cut, around 1.5 - 2.0 cm long (although to you quite significant) would be less than 1% damage (or negligible) for most standard check-in sized bags.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'd pursue this issue.

If the damage was superficial (scratch of the covering fabric) perhaps I wouldn't be so concerned. But this is a puncture of the case, and will let water in if the bag is in the rain next time it's being loaded.

'normal handling' of the case didn't cause this... something bigger than that did. Therefore it can't be considered 'normal wear and tear'.

If you don't have success with that email, I'd suggest going to the Airline Consumer Advocate.

 

[vetrade]

Do you have a genuine grievance? Yeah, probably.
But I bet Jetstar won't budge and you will just waste a significant amount of your own time trying to pursue it. In the end my guess is you will get nothing.
It's a fact of life that bags get damaged in transit which is why it's important to select one which can stand up to the knocks.
I'd just put a waterproof patch inside and out and move on.

 

[Ambo]

First of all, thanks for all the points. Secondly, I will consider what to do over the weekend. I will definitely take it to the repairer to get a quote in any case, it might not cost a lot anyway.

I can understand your frustration, but assuming the terms and conditions relayed to you by the CSR are correct, I don't think you have a snowflakes chance in hell.

That being said, those T&C's sound fairly standard. Mainly because who do you actually claim against, Jetstar or the Melbourne Airport Authority? Or possibly the corresponding Singapore organisation? I'm sure they will handball it back and forth. Basically because, it will be almost impossible to define actually when the damage occurred. Jetstar have not done you any favours, but they really don't have to. The damage, in my estimate, is slight.

And the Montreal Convention, that is a bit extreme! Bit like calling in the US Marines to deal with a couple of kids with slug guns. Its meant for serious contraventions, i.e. terrorists, fatal crashes, deaths, serious injuries. Not some poor guy with a slightly damaged suitcase.

It would be cheaper, just to go buy a nice new Samsonite or Vuitton bag.


Travel Insurance? If you have it, I'm sure they would cover replacement of said luggage

I think the damage might be slight in terms of size but it's deep, I can see internal structures of the case and I'm worried that this will increase through normal wear and tear causing the whole bag to break apart while in transit.

I only mentioned the Montreal Convention as that is what is written in the Jetstar Terms of Carriage under Baggage Liability.

All options on the table, I am already looking at other bags.

For me, it looks like wear and tear to me and the cut, around 1.5 - 2.0 cm long (although to you quite significant) would be less than 1% damage (or negligible) for most standard check-in sized bags.

I don't feel that this kind of damage is wear and tear though. I think that this kind of damage in not inevitable through normal handling, especially if the case is 6 months old. But I guess that wear and tear is one of those terms that everyone can think of differently.

As I said, I'm concerned that through actual wear and tear, this will get worse or as stated by MEL_Traveller below, let in water.

I'd pursue this issue.

If the damage was superficial (scratch of the covering fabric) perhaps I wouldn't be so concerned. But this is a puncture of the case, and will let water in if the bag is in the rain next time it's being loaded.

'normal handling' of the case didn't cause this... something bigger than that did. Therefore it can't be considered 'normal wear and tear'.

If you don't have success with that email, I'd suggest going to the Airline Consumer Advocate.

Thank you, that was what I was thinking. I was also concerned that in any case, the bag would get more damaged through normal wear and tear of not fixed.

Do you have a genuine grievance? Yeah, probably.
But I bet Jetstar won't budge and you will just waste a significant amount of your own time trying to pursue it. In the end my guess is you will get nothing.
It's a fact of life that bags get damaged in transit which is why it's important to select one which can stand up to the knocks.
I'd just put a waterproof patch inside and out and move on.

OK thank you, that's why I asked the questions, to get a general feel what people thought.

I agree, bags get damaged, but normal wear and tear? I see the damage to the hard corners to the case and I think that's normal wear and tear.

I have had other suitcases that have stood up to more flights then this one. Theoretically, if this is wear and tear, would it not be a warranty issue because I would not expect a tear this early on in the bags life?

Any good waterproof patches you can recommend?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Ambo - you have submitted a formal baggage repair claim? The timelines on this are quite strict - and you must meet the deadlines on the Jetstar website.

Once you have done that, it doesn't matter how long it takes - just the initial (and formal) claim must be lodged.

I wouldn't be stressing the issue of additional wear and tear too much. Just focus on the current situation and the deep puncture. That's far from normal handling.

 

[Ambo]

Hey Mel_Traveller,

I lodged a form through here and have been assigned a case number through which I have been talking to the Baggage Services Team. That's all that was really done, not sure what else I needed to do.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hey Mel_Traveller,

I lodged a form through here and have been assigned a case number through which I have been talking to the Baggage Services Team. That's all that was really done, not sure what else I needed to do.

That looks like the one!

Then just the issue of trying to get it fixed. If the new approach (not normal handling therefore not normal wear and tear) doesn't work, keep everything to forward to the Airline Consumer Advocate. Airlines have a duty of care with respect to your items, it's possible they have fallen short of that in this particular case (pun not intended, but I'll pat myself on the back anyway )

 

[vetrade]

Any good waterproof patches you can recommend?

Ambo, your bag looks like it is a semi rigid shell with a faux fabric outer surface in which case a fibreglass fix should work (stick) well (I use "Diggers" brand Fibreglass Resin, Catalyst and fibreglass mesh from Bunnings). Have used this on a puncture of my hardcase as well as yachts and even my motorbike fairings over the years with excellent results.

If your bag has a "true" fabric surface f-glass might not stick well enough in which case I'm sure you will find plenty of options by googling. Iron-on patches tend to work better than the ones where you just peel off the backing paper IME. Patch both the inside and outside of the hole after trimming any loose bits from the edges.

 

[Nizar]

A couple of years ago I was on a QF international flight (from SIN if i remember correctly) and my bag was damaged. Damage was that the zip was broken so I went to the baggage department at MEL showed him the damage and the guy gave me a voucher for some baggage store on Franklin Street.

Went to the baggage store the next day with the voucher and the guy behind the counter was delighted that I handed him a Qantas voucher and to my delight told me I could pick any bag I wanted. He recommended an American tourister hardcase which had a pricetag of $399 and I obliged.

Not a bad outcome considering the bag that was damaged was a cheap Chinese bag which my parents bought five years ago for less than a hunge lol :mrgreen:

 

[Dr Ralph]

I'm confident you wont get anywhere with Jetstar. This is an airline that I simply will never fly with again after several poor experiences this year.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm confident you wont get anywhere with Jetstar. This is an airline that I simply will never fly with again after several poor experiences this year.

Perhaps this is why it's good to have the services of the airline consumer advocate, and as a back up, consumer affiars. They're there to make it easy for people.

In a way, this isn't much different to taking faulty goods back to a shop... plenty of times they'll tell you there's no refund, or exchange, or they won't repair it, or it's out of warranty (etc). Does that mean people just drop everything? Of course not. So why should an airline be any different?

I'm not suggesting the OP hire a team of lawyers on this one... but an independent view (from the ACA/Consumer affairs) is easy and can't hurt.

 

[JayJ]

I would think carefully about how much effort I was willing to put into fighting this, as I suspect that Jetstar will not budge unless forced by something much bigger than a complaining passenger (no matter how justified you feel). I am in a fight with Jetstar at the moment and am not finding the experience fruitful. I look at responses from Jetstar and wonder if my letters were somehow translated into Martian before they are considered. I would bet that airlines cause damage such as yours regularly enough that they are normal wear and tear from their perspective. Is that reasonable? No. Should they get away with it? No, but they regularly do. Is it worth your time? Only you can decide.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I would think carefully about how much effort I was willing to put into fighting this, as I suspect that Jetstar will not budge unless forced by something much bigger than a complaining passenger (no matter how justified you feel). I am in a fight with Jetstar at the moment and am not finding the experience fruitful. I look at responses from Jetstar and wonder if my letters were somehow translated into Martian before they are considered. I would bet that airlines cause damage such as yours regularly enough that they are normal wear and tear from their perspective. Is that reasonable? No. Should they get away with it? No, but they regularly do. Is it worth your time? Only you can decide.

Have you contacted the Airline Consumer Advocate? Have you contacted consumer affairs in your local state (it's free of charge)?

An airline doesn't get to determine what is 'normal wear and tear'. That definition is outside of their control.

 

[JayJ]

Have you contacted the Airline Consumer Advocate? Have you contacted consumer affairs in your local state (it's free of charge)?

An airline doesn't get to determine what is 'normal wear and tear'. That definition is outside of their control.

My dispute isn't over baggage and isn't yet up to going to the Advocate or consumer affairs, though that may be necessary. Thanks for the suggestions, though.

On the OP's situation, I agree that the definition of normal wear and tear is not controlled by the airlines, but was noting that their perspective on the term is. If they can get enough people to give up based on an ambit claim for the term, it may be a worthwhile strategy for the airline. I hope the OP reaches a satisfactory resolution, but I remain of the view that it will take time / effort devoted towards a far-from-certain outcome.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

I love this forum but am still surprised that people do not raise issues via Twitter and Facebook first.

All my issues (airlines and other) are now resolved via either of these social tools. The social media departments in most companies now have much better customer service training (and budgets) to take care of most issues.

Tweet Jetstar the picture of your luggage with a cheeky remark about being told this is simply wear and tear...then sit back and relax

 

[Ambo]

Hey all,

Just an update.

Spoke to Consumer affairs and there is no much they will do except suggest I take it to the ACA and failing that VCAT. I have been in touch with the ACA and they have just emailed me that Jetstar is standing by it's assessment that this is wear and tear. The ACA do want to further speak with me in the next few days to discuss.

In the mean time, I took the luggage to the manufacturer's authorised repairer in Victoria. They have told me that the damage was caused by a slash or puncture, mostly likely by something that is a sharp metal object and NOT wear and tear. This has compromised the waterproof integrity of the suitcase.

Perhaps this is why it's good to have the services of the airline consumer advocate, and as a back up, consumer affiars. They're there to make it easy for people.

In a way, this isn't much different to taking faulty goods back to a shop... plenty of times they'll tell you there's no refund, or exchange, or they won't repair it, or it's out of warranty (etc). Does that mean people just drop everything? Of course not. So why should an airline be any different?

I'm not suggesting the OP hire a team of lawyers on this one... but an independent view (from the ACA/Consumer affairs) is easy and can't hurt.

Definitely not going to hire lawyers, but I would really like to have my luggage fixed.

I would think carefully about how much effort I was willing to put into fighting this, as I suspect that Jetstar will not budge unless forced by something much bigger than a complaining passenger (no matter how justified you feel). I am in a fight with Jetstar at the moment and am not finding the experience fruitful. I look at responses from Jetstar and wonder if my letters were somehow translated into Martian before they are considered. I would bet that airlines cause damage such as yours regularly enough that they are normal wear and tear from their perspective. Is that reasonable? No. Should they get away with it? No, but they regularly do. Is it worth your time? Only you can decide.

It's not taking much effort at the moment but as I said the repairer said that this was not wear and tear. To me it's worth a shot.

Have you contacted the Airline Consumer Advocate? Have you contacted consumer affairs in your local state (it's free of charge)?

An airline doesn't get to determine what is 'normal wear and tear'. That definition is outside of their control.

Yes to both, Consumer Affairs only advised VCAT as an option if ACA failed.
Very valid point on "An airline doesn't get to determine what is 'normal wear and tear'. That definition is outside of their control." and I will look at getting an official report from the Authorised Repairer with his assessment as that is more independent than the airline and obviously, it was be a serious offence to lie on such a report.

My dispute isn't over baggage and isn't yet up to going to the Advocate or consumer affairs, though that may be necessary. Thanks for the suggestions, though.

On the OP's situation, I agree that the definition of normal wear and tear is not controlled by the airlines, but was noting that their perspective on the term is. If they can get enough people to give up based on an ambit claim for the term, it may be a worthwhile strategy for the airline. I hope the OP reaches a satisfactory resolution, but I remain of the view that it will take time / effort devoted towards a far-from-certain outcome.

Thanks Jay, to me it's worth a try. Hope your problem gets sorted ASAP.

I love this forum but am still surprised that people do not raise issues via Twitter and Facebook first.

All my issues (airlines and other) are now resolved via either of these social tools. The social media departments in most companies now have much better customer service training (and budgets) to take care of most issues.

Tweet Jetstar the picture of your luggage with a cheeky remark about being told this is simply wear and tear...then sit back and relax

Will definitely look at the option if all else fails, but I wanted to go through the official line first as you have to make official claims first. I might even add some other poor examples of my past few Jetstar flights and tell them that I will go with Virgin and they can take the $100 voucher they gave me and shove it. I suppose it might be worth a try of Velocity over QFF, a couple of people suggested the Virgin Lounge is better than the standard QANTAS lounge.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Ambo - hopefully the ACA can assist. I think you have the key - this was an extraordinary event causing a slash and puncture, most likely by something sharp. This would not be expected by a reasonable person when giving their bag into the care of an airline.

Just researching 'normal wear and tear' produced this rather helpful guide from Allegiant Air (of the USA), they include minor cuts, scuffing, nicks or stains: https://www.allegiantair.com/luggage-limitations-liability Not sure if your damage would be considered a minor cut... but one could think that was a cut to the outer fabric of the case, as distinct from a puncture (hard to tell from your picture the actual size involved).

Jetstar follows the Allegiant model:

Damage includes death of, wounding of or bodily or personal injury to a Passenger and also includes loss, partial loss, theft or other damage to Baggage arising out of or in connection with, either carriage on flights we operate or other services we provide. However, it does not include normal wear and tear of Baggage such as small scratches, scuffs, dents and cuts.

But Qantas seems more generous and determines 'wear and tear' as only scratches and dents... not punctures!:

• Qantas is not liable for minor damage caused to baggage due to normal wear and tear, including scratches and dents or damage to straps, hooks or other external features attached to the baggage.

 

[Ambo]

Hey All,

ACA couldn't really help, Jetstar is still refusing. Unfortunately the repairer said he can't write on a certificate of insurance that they bag was probably slashed by something metal so all in all, it seems like nothing will happen.

I will probably look at getting a new one in the near future. I will also not fly Jetstar for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for all your help and advice.

Regards
Ambo