Huge Adverse Anomaly in Qantas Business Class Fares vs Emirates same flights same dates

[Kevin Maitland]

Dear fellow AFF members

I have discovered a huge and unreasonable adverse anomaly in Qantas Business Class fares compared to Emirates fares for Business class on the exact same aircraft on same date and time flights

I think this warrants an early warning to AFF members some of whom could be caught by this Qantas fare.

I recently enquired online (at Emirates) for Business Class return Perth to Gatwick on 17th June and return on 15 Sept with 3 days flexibility.

Emirates fare matrix (confirmed by a personal visit to their Office) shows a fare of $6934.53 RETURN

As a Qantas FF I endeavoured to source the fare through the QF online site.

The exact same aircraft (Emirates code share with QF) for same flights, same dates shows a fare of $6420 forward and $6704 return for total cost $13124.

The difference being $6190 more expensive with Qantas.

Believing this must be a mistake I enquired through Qantas SMS enquiry service and was told that the fare was correct even though the consultant could hardly believe the difference herself.

I rechecked with Emirates who confirmed their fare was just $6934 and suggested the fares should be parity between codeshare partners.

I contacted the complaints/feedback area of Qantas and spoke at length to a very nice gentleman who promised to raise the fare query with Senior Management and get back to me.

The gentleman phoned me back the next morning (yesterday) to offer some explanation that seemed Emirates would not let QF sell the fare at the lower price and he again confirmed their pricing at $13124.

He also suggested that I make the booking direct with Emirates.

As a loyal QF member I find the fare anomaly to be a stunning insult to loyal QF members some of whom may not be aware of the fare through Emirates direct, and
may have committed the extra $6190 (I.e. full QF price $13194)for the same fare.

How can any member remain loyal to an airline who treats their best clients (FF members) in this way.?????

I have subsequently completed the booking with Emirates (as this was suggested by Qantas) but wonder if any AFF members have been caught out?

Kevin M

 

[blackcat20]

I’ve seen the same for NZ flights, QF charge far more than EK for the same QF metal flights.

 

[Pushka]

It’s all about status credits for Qantas.

 

[burmans]

I'm not sure what you mean with the emotional terms 'unreasonably adverse'. It's a competitive market, Qantas don't have to offer cheap fares primarily because there are plenty of people who want to travel Qantas no matter what. There is an alternate (and I would suggest intelligent) view, check prices and choose which best meets your needs.

Qantas don't have to offer cheap fares but equally you don't have to fly Qantas.

 

[Kerrodt]

No different to Woolworths selling apples for $5 a kilo and Aldi selling apples for $2.50 a kilo. They’re all just apples. Nothing different. Customers have opportunity to shop around and make choices based on price and/or whatever else motivates their buying decisions. Mr Market will eventually tell those sellers who are priced differently to others that they are either too competitive or too uncompetitive and they can then do what they please with that information.

 

[TheInsider]

Don't know why you bother going to those lengths to complain about the price of the fares. It's just normal yield management and fare pricing.
Yes you may be purchasing a seat on the same flight, but you are not purchasing the same fare. One is an EK fare, one is a QF fare. You are purchasing something from two totally different companies.

 

[offshore171]

Lowest fare bucket probably exhausted via QF allocation

 

[Kevin Maitland]

I understand fare differences and yield management but such differences are blatant rip offs, my concern is to make members aware that we are not talking small dollars but the equivalent of almost double pricing, which sends a message that loyalty is not worth maintaining but I think we all know that these days.

 

[Kerrodt]

I understand fare differences and yield management but such differences are blatant rip offs, my concern is to make members aware that we are not talking small dollars but the equivalent of almost double pricing, which sends a message that loyalty is not worth maintaining but I think we all know that these days.

Why don’t you turn the argument around and say that Emirates are flooding the market with cheap, less than cost price seats, and preventing their code share partner Qantas from accessing the same cost for the same seat. Effectively, argue that Emirates are dumping airline capacity into the Australian market in an attempt to run Qantas out of business on this route?

 

[burmans]

I understand fare differences and yield management but such differences are blatant rip offs, my concern is to make members aware that we are not talking small dollars but the equivalent of almost double pricing, which sends a message that loyalty is not worth maintaining but I think we all know that these days.

Loyalty is not worth maintaining - while true my reaction to that is basically 'well yeah but duh'.

I don't particularly disagree with your fundamental argument that loyalty is worth nothing but that's a view I have had for about ten years at an absolute minimum. Capitalism is capitalism, ie companies charge what the market will bear, what is fair has never come into it. You can't believe in capitalism without also believing in caveat emptor, ie it is up to purchasers to determine what the value is in loyalty. My personal view on an intellectual basis is that there is no value in loyalty , indeed you are far better off not being loyal!

 

[CaptJCool]

Loyalty goes so far.....

in the domestic market there’s but two airlines. So all things being equal it makes sense to put all your eggs in the same basket

In the international market, there’s a multitude of hcoice of airlines flying and so loyalty is unlikely. QF trades in a strong safety record and charges a premium for that but while Asians see premium service as being of service. We seem to be afflicted by the English model of servitude. ...

I could point to a number of fare differences. Eg fly Finnair EUROPE returns and you get to fly QF as the departing Australia leg part of that arrangement for far less than flying QF direct to London.

Besides it’s not especially in QF interests to fill EK flights to London when it has its own Perth - LHR service ...

 

[kermatu]

I've seen the opposite. EK flights via QF codeshare cheaper than EK (albeit only a few dollars). Just shop around and do a bit of research.

No doubt some people will be caught out, which is unfortunate.

 

[madrooster]

QF restrict LGW to flexi J fares. The problem was back in 2013 when they codeshared with EK, LGW has lower taxes and it would show up at the top of the list on their booking engine.

This meant LGW sales on codeshares on EK were cannibalising their own QF1/2/9/10 services into LHR as many are price conscious and don't care what airport they fly into.

After figuring out how to preference QF metal over codeshares in their booking engine, they never went back to undo that restriction. I'm sure there's other reasons why they have kept it that way.

 

[Quickstatus]

I understand fare differences and yield management but such differences are blatant rip offs, my concern is to make members aware that we are not talking small dollars but the equivalent of almost double pricing, which sends a message that loyalty is not worth maintaining but I think we all know that these days.

1) blatant ripoffs?. How so? because they are not the same or you didn’t get it at the price you want?. Different prices on the same flight have existed for decades. Do you complain about yield management creating different fare buckets when you are able to get the cheapest fare?

2) I think most QF pax flying J are not so naive to blindly assume that the QF fare is the cheapest on that flight. I’ve seen ridiculous fares on not only QF but others as well.

3) - yes raise it as a matter of discussion but methinks someone got cranky because they missed out on some SC?

4)it is entirely possible to think that the QF fares were erroneous - possibly constructed as 2x one way or some other error - so it’s reasonable to query.

Ok so what to do?. Just do BFOD (best fare of day)! and be airline agnostic. Let the airline compete for your patronage rather than you competing for airline SC or some other tie-up. Take the value away from your loyalty to the airline (remember loyalty here in invariably one way) and put the value back in your patronage.

 

[Deleted member]

Dear fellow AFF members

I have discovered a huge and unreasonable adverse anomaly in Qantas Business Class fares compared to Emirates fares for Business class on the exact same aircraft on same date and time flights

I think this warrants an early warning to AFF members some of whom could be caught by this Qantas fare.

I recently enquired online (at Emirates) for Business Class return Perth to Gatwick on 17th June and return on 15 Sept with 3 days flexibility.

Emirates fare matrix (confirmed by a personal visit to their Office) shows a fare of $6934.53 RETURN

As a Qantas FF I endeavoured to source the fare through the QF online site.

The exact same aircraft (Emirates code share with QF) for same flights, same dates shows a fare of $6420 forward and $6704 return for total cost $13124.

The difference being $6190 more expensive with Qantas.

Believing this must be a mistake I enquired through Qantas SMS enquiry service and was told that the fare was correct even though the consultant could hardly believe the difference herself.

I rechecked with Emirates who confirmed their fare was just $6934 and suggested the fares should be parity between codeshare partners.

I contacted the complaints/feedback area of Qantas and spoke at length to a very nice gentleman who promised to raise the fare query with Senior Management and get back to me.

The gentleman phoned me back the next morning (yesterday) to offer some explanation that seemed Emirates would not let QF sell the fare at the lower price and he again confirmed their pricing at $13124.

He also suggested that I make the booking direct with Emirates.

As a loyal QF member I find the fare anomaly to be a stunning insult to loyal QF members some of whom may not be aware of the fare through Emirates direct, and
may have committed the extra $6190 (I.e. full QF price $13194)for the same fare.

How can any member remain loyal to an airline who treats their best clients (FF members) in this way.?????

I have subsequently completed the booking with Emirates (as this was suggested by Qantas) but wonder if any AFF members have been caught out?

Kevin M

Old news Kevin. QF is almost always much more expensive on a code share flight in my experience.

 

[RooFlyer]

I understand fare differences and yield management but such differences are blatant rip offs, my concern is to make members aware that we are not talking small dollars but the equivalent of almost double pricing, which sends a message that loyalty is not worth maintaining but I think we all know that these days.

Yes and yes. Not really news though. Qantas is an expensive airline, full stop.

 

[offshore171]

I did a quick search on Google Flights and it looks like LHR is quite a bit cheaper.

Are you wedded to Gatwick?

Also Singapore and Cathay returning some reasonable fares in the 6-7 k range.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

This is commonplace not sure what the issue is. Market prices for identical items vary widely across many different sectors...good thing you're free to choose.

 

[mannej]

Someone with some knowledge on the QF/EK can comment, but I don’t believe they can collude on pricing hence why there isn’t any pattern between the prices that EK offer and that of QF

 

[RichardMEL]

I see on PER-LGW all available discount J classes on EK and their QF codeshares, but interestingly doing a fare display for cheaper J fares specifically exclude the QF codeshares thus pushing one onto other routings and/or airlines

eg:

PERMITTED 31MAR19 THROUGH 12DEC19 ON THE FIRST
INTERNATIONAL SECTOR. SEASON IS BASED ON DATE OF
ORIGIN.
FLIGHT APPLICATION THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
QF FLIGHTS 5000 THROUGH 5999
QF FLIGHTS 8009 THROUGH 8012
QF FLIGHTS 8015 THROUGH 8016
QF FLIGHTS 8023 THROUGH 8024
QF FLIGHT 83
ANY QF FLIGHT OPERATED BY MU
ANY QF FLIGHT OPERATED BY CZ
ANY QF FLIGHT OPERATED BY OZ
ANY QF FLIGHT OPERATED BY VN
ANY QF FLIGHT OPERATED BY CI
EK FLIGHTS 4000 THROUGH 6999
EK FLIGHTS 7050 THROUGH 7999
EK FLIGHTS 9 THROUGH 12
EK FLIGHTS 15 THROUGH 16
EK FLIGHTS 23 THROUGH 24.
AND
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL BETWEEN MEL/SYD
AND SOUTHEAST ASIA
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST NOT BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY QF FLIGHT OPERATED BY JQ.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY QF FLIGHT
ANY EK FLIGHT.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
PERMITTED CARRIERS / AS PER ROUTE MAP.

VERY EXPLICITLY excluding the LGW flights (EK9/EK15 for example are DXB-LGW)

The "cheapest" fare offering I can see without these restrictions (I have not done a full search) is CXFEU with a base fare of 12640.

This would support the information above regarding restrictions on the sale of discounted J tickets to LGW by QF.

SO it may be unreasonable to the OP absolutely, but there is probably a reason for this (as in a specific condition of the EK/QF partnership, probably related to LHR service)