Help Required please for DONE4 - 'NZ' agent is insisting I pay the ex-AUS fare!

[tuapekastar]

I boooked a DONE ex-AKL via the AA ATW desk.

I got something of a shock just then when i called the AA NZ number (I've no idea where it ended up, but the guy's first language was not English) when the agent said because I was using an Australian issued CC and was "in Australia" that he was going to charge the ex-AUS fare!

What he actually said was "I'll need to convert it to AUD" and get back to you. On the surface that was not necessarily a reprice and he never said that but when i pushed him he said something about complicated rules and "different fares from different places". I said I would get back to them.

Have I struck a new rule here? Or perhaps an overzealous agent? Or a strict interpretation of the existing rules? I've read here where people have had no issues doing this and to be frank I'm a little lost as to the next step to take.I was hoping to get this ticketed today and would appreciate any advice anyone has - obviously getting a different agent may help, but if this is a new rule, or an old one that is now more rigorously enforced, I think i'm in a bit of do-dos.

 

[serfty]

It's their policy.

I hinted to you about this here:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...rticularly-re-ticketing-23021.html#post321715

...
Do all initial reservations using the AA ATW desk in Texas. I tried to use skype, but it was not always convenient so - I purchased a $10 "Hello Europe" phone card for this - 6¢ per minute call for USA calls + 20¢ per day after first use.
Once ticketed, continue to use the AA NZ number. Once you have flown your first international segment the AA in OZ 'phone number works fine.
...

I guess I could have been more clear; I also thought I had mentioned using a NZ telephone number for actual ticketing process, but it appears I hadn't.

Anyway, I had been warned about this from posted FT experience and did the following.

• Booked using USA ATW Desk.
  
• To initiate ticketing I called AA NZ using the NZ telephone number for AA using a mobile phone with a prepaid Vodaphone NZ SIM card. I did try to do this while actually in NZ, but it was out of hours (see below).
  
• All further communication before travel communication was done using the AA NZ telephone number.
  
• I only began using the Oz number after I had commenced travel.

I would suggust, firstly tring to use ISD and call the AA NZ number. Note it is only available 9-5, Monday to Friday Auckland time (that's 7am-3pm in Victoria) outside of that you get a recording.

 

[tuapekastar]

It's their policy.

I hinted to you about this here:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...rticularly-re-ticketing-23021.html#post321715

I guess I could have been more clear; I also thought I had mentioned using a NZ telephone number for actual ticketing process, but I did not.

I was warned about this and did the following.

• Booked using USA ATW Desk.
  
• To initiate ticketing I called AA NZ using the NZ telephone number for AA using a mobile phone with Vodaphone NZ SIM card.
  
• All further before travel communication was done using the AA NZ telephone number.
  
• I only began using the Oz number after I had commenced travel.

I did interpret "Should not be an issue " to indicate I should be able to call the AA NZ number and be ticketed OK in NZD.

I'm going to have to have a little think about my course of action from here, as I know availablity on one or two segments is low and if I cancel the reservation and rebook I may run into issues. And there is probably not much point in doing that anyhow.

Live and learn.

 

[serfty]

Another thing - at no stage did I advise that I was physically in Australia; nor did I indicate I was an Australian resident

 

[NM]

Another thing - at no stage did I advise that I was physically in Australia; nor did I indicate I was an Australian resident

Though your accent and Aussie credit card may have given it away

 

[tuapekastar]

Another thing - at no stage did I advise that I was physically in Australia; nor did I indicate I was an Australian resident

I did not volunteer any information, then he asked if I was "in New Zealand". Telling porkies comes very hard to me, but I am managed to blurt out a quick 'yes', then he asked if i had an NZ-issued CC and it went pear-shaped from there. I guess .au on the end of an e-mail address isn't going to help matters either - a gmail account may be required.

I may just try again Monday morning and if no good (would they put a remark in the booking saying some bloke from Oz tried to ticket this as an NZ-er?) just suck it up and pay the ex-AU price. If that's the case I wonder if I would be better off calling AA on the Oz number?

There've probably been numerous discussions on the 'higher fare' rule (pasted below), and the key point is oprobably the definition of where it is "sold".

They'll say I bought it "in Australia" and I'll say they sold it "in NZ". :shock: Both statements are probably true but i may argue the point a bit on Monday (not that I would expect to win the argument).

When travel originates in a country for which a specific local currency fares is published and the ticket is sold in another country, the fare will be that published for the country of origin converted to the currency of the country of sale at the bank selling rate. The resultant fare must not be lower than from the country of sale.

 

[serfty]

My email address is (at)bigpond.com

and it helps when the contact number is +64 2 ...

I was not asked for a postal address, but had an NZ one organized ...

BTW, there are many "ixpit ossis in Nu Zelind mate" ... so accent should not be a factor.

 

[adrian]

Can you try booking it online? I think that AA would need to be the first sector, if that is possible. I am not sure what their routing is, but do they codeshare with QF on AKL-LAX?

 

[Mwenenzi]

If you want a Kiwi phone number signing up on YABBA : Telecom New Zealand Limited may help
The actual phone rates are OK

I got something of a shock just then when i called the AA NZ number (I've no idea where it ended up, but the guy's first language was not English) when the agent said because I was using an Australian issued CC and was "in Australia" that he was going to charge the ex-AUS fare!

Then AA may think you are NZ

Good to read you are doing the RTW at last

 

[Dave Noble]

My understanding is that with the joint NZ/AU desk , they have a policy of treating all AU credit card usage as being issued in Australia and NZ cards as being in NZ and issue the tickets in the appropriate country

As such, charging the ex-AU price would be correct . Where they sell it is irrelevent; what matters is where they issue it and if on an AU card they seem to only issue in AU

Dave

 

[straitman]

My understanding is that with the joint NZ/AU desk , they have a policy of treating all AU credit card usage as being issued in Australia and NZ cards as being in NZ and issue the tickets in the appropriate country

As such, charging the ex-AU price would be correct . Where they sell it is irrelevent; what matters is where they issue it and if on an AU card they seem to only issue in AU

Dave

Dave,

Are you saying that if I book a DONEX starting in NZ ticket, whilst in NZ they will, contrary to the OW rules explanation, charge me as having bought the ticket in Oz :?:

 

[serfty]

...
As such, charging the ex-AU price would be correct . Where they sell it is irrelevent; what matters is where they issue it and if on an AU card they seem to only issue in AU

Dave

Not the case. I know you do not employ DEBT cards but many others do.

Was my ~USD6000 purchase of a DONE4 ex CMB in breach of the rules? I was charged by a CX agent in Columbo on my OZ based Charge Card. I picked up the paper ticket from CMB and flew from CMB and return to CMB.

Is it any different from purchasing a YY fare ex Tripoli from somewhere else in the world?

What the issue is that Mindpeal run an agency for AA - based in BNE. I believe they cover SE asia as well as South West Pacific.

Management there have made a choice to try to prevent ex NZ xONEx's being purchased by Australians. Maybe they were perceiving a loss of revenue?

While such purchase is not in breach of the xONEx rules, they can choose to sell to who they wish. It is such a fine line they tread that they need to be certain that it is not an expat Australian resident in New Zealand before they will try to deny.

If I fly to NZ and provide my CC details over the phone or indeed pay NZD cash to an Agent selling an AA plated xONEx in KL is it any different?

 

[ozbeachbabe]

If you want a Kiwi phone number signing up on YABBA : Telecom New Zealand Limited may help
The actual phone rates are OK

Then AA may think you are NZ

Good to read you are doing the RTW at last

So you need a piece of plastic that will register as a NZ credit card when you ticket over the phone with NZ.

In Australia Post shops you can purchase visa debit type cards for specific amounts (they're usually on the same rack as gift cards). Can any NZ AFFers confirm if NZ Post Offices offer the same thing.

Also what actually determines the NZ credit card bit? Is it the prefix eg in Oz some visa cards begin with 4564.

Cheers

Oz

 

[tuapekastar]

My understanding is that with the joint NZ/AU desk , they have a policy of treating all AU credit card usage as being issued in Australia and NZ cards as being in NZ and issue the tickets in the appropriate country

As such, charging the ex-AU price would be correct . Where they sell it is irrelevent; what matters is where they issue it and if on an AU card they seem to only issue in AU

Dave

If that is their policy, then they're certainly following it in my case, but it would seem contrary to the OWE technical rulesheet.

The rule talks about 'country of sale' (no mention whatsoever of 'issue'), and in this instance I reckon that is NZ, no matter whether I pay with an AU or NZ CC, cash, or sheep dip.

Anyway, I'm reasonably over it after the initial setback. The extra dollars just delays my retirement a few days.

I'll probably, like I said, give it one more go (wuth my bist Kiwi eccent ), argue a bit, then concede, because if that's what they do then that's what they do. And then chalk it down to experience.

I'm wondering where serfty's CC was issued (assuming that's what he paid with) as he seemed to pay the ex-NZ price ok - perhaps the policy is actually not based on the origin of the CC, or maybe someone at AA did not follow policy.

This also negates any need to go AKL for now - I may as well, availability and rules allowing, just change AKL-HKG to MEL-HKG, and LAX-AKL to LAX-MEL and ticket in AU. (assuming I can think of a use for the MEL-AKL-MEL flights next year and the overall cost to change is not too steep).

Thanks to all for their input and suggestions so far. Even if the 'refusal' today was disappointing, the input and discussion has been interesting and helpful.

@Mwenenzi, yep, better late than never (for the DONE)! (and I'll look at Yabba if I decide I need an NZ number as part of this exercise)

 

[tuapekastar]

Also what actually determines the NZ credit card bit? Is it the prefix eg in Oz some visa cards begin with 4564.

Cheers

Oz

I ought to know as I'm working for a bank at the moment . I do believe number ranges (and I believe they're called bins) are allocated by bank. I'll check up next week out of interest exactly how it works and post back.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Though your accent and Aussie credit card may have given it away

Ahh globalisation!!!

 

[Dave Noble]

Not the case. I know you do not employ DEBT cards but many others do.

Was my ~USD6000 purchase of a DONE4 ex CMB in breach of the rules? I was charged by a CX agent in Columbo on my OZ based Charge Card. I picked up the paper ticket from CMB and flew from CMB and return to CMB.

It is very different from purchasing a YY fare since YY fares have no restrictions on country of sale. The price is $x regardless of whether sold in London, Australia, USA etc and so would not be an issue .

While such purchase is not in breach of the xONEx rules, they can choose to sell to who they wish. It is such a fine line they tread that they need to be certain that it is not an expat Australian resident in New Zealand before they will try to deny.

?

When purchasing ex CMB, you purchased from an agent in CMB and was charged the CMB price; quite valid
Regardless of the number called, for AU/NZ, AA calls go to Australia. If purchasing an ex-NZ ticket from AU, then the AU price should apply which is entirely consistent with the CMB example

They have had for a while that I have seen to treat the use of cards with an AU address as being sold in Australia regardless of the phone number called ( and assumedly that cars with an NZ address as being sold in NZ ); this is a compamy policy from what I can see


I do not know what would happen if someone living overseas and with cards registered to overseas address called, but I suspect that they would be ok unless AA is using the card number to determine country

 

[Dave Noble]

The rule talks about 'country of sale' (no mention whatsoever of 'issue'), and in this instance I reckon that is NZ, no matter whether I pay with an AU or NZ CC, cash, or sheep dip.

Country of sale would actually be Australua since the agents were based in Australie. If they have an office which you can visit personally in NZ, then that should get you the NZ price regardkess

 

[markis10]

Here is a list of the card numbers and banks that issued them:

List of Bank Identification Numbers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ozbeachbabe - yes the post do have a gift card 4182 24 - New Zealand Post (NZ) - Visa Loaded Card

 

[serfty]

...

I'm wondering where serfty's CC was issued (assuming that's what he paid with) as he seemed to pay the ex-NZ price ok - perhaps the policy is actually not based on the origin of the CC, or maybe someone at AA did not follow policy. ...

Oz Amex, 3760 prefix! (As posted I had a non .au email address and a +64 contact phone number.)

Shown on the statement as "AMERICAN AIRLINES PSP-EUR & PAC" and charged in NZD.

Country of sale would actually be Australua since the agents were based in Australie. If they have an office which you can visit personally in NZ, then that should get you the NZ price regardkess

Like Oz, AA have no publicly accessible office in NZ.

... Regardless of the number called, for AU/NZ, AA calls go to Australia. If purchasing an ex-NZ ticket from AU, then the AU price should apply which is entirely consistent with the CMB example ...

Taking that argument to it's conclusion would imply that no-one in NZ could purchase xONEx (AA plated) at cheaper ex NZ prices through the Mindpearl Office in Brisbane that operates AA's regional centre.

This would also apply to Japan, China, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia and any other country/region this office acts as AA's call centre for.

(AA reservations back on shore)


As I indicated in a prior post, it seems to be a specific policy.


(... and it was generally received as good news the AA call centre was relocating to Oz: http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...vantage/aa-call-centre-coming-back-12397.html)