Help Requested - In Vienna Without My Luggage

[drcrox]

I am after any assistance from members please. I flew from Melbourne to Vienna departing 25/11 booked in business class with Qatar Airways on QR905 / QR183. Due to the Melbourne fuel shortage and rationing we had to land in Perth to refuel and therefore missed my connection in Doha. Upon arrival myself and my travelling companion were met by Qatar staff and informed we had been re-booked onto QR131 to Rome and then with Air Berlin AB8727 to Vienna. We were told our bags would be checked through to Vienna but to go to the transfer desk at Rome airport to confirm this would occur.

We spent the entire 2 hours between flights in Rome trying to do this without any staff being able to help us. Needless to say, our bags did not arrive in Vienna. We lodged a missing baggage report at Vienna airport where we were told that they could find no record of our bags with Air Berlin. Part of the problem is that the only baggage receipt we have is the original receipt from Melbourne - nothing further was provided in Doha.

It is now 36 hours since arriving. Both myself and my travelling partner (who is Platinum FF with Qatar) have approached Qatar Airways to be fobbed off completely. They have told us that since the last sector was with Air Berlin, they have no responsibility and will do nothing to assist us. Given that they re-routed us and placed onto the flight, then told us our bags would be checked through, I fail to see how they can walk away from two business class customers like this. I have since lodged an online complaint via the Air Berlin website, but have not yet had a response.

Given that the first day in Vienna was Sunday, all the shops were closed and I have not yet been able to buy any replacement clothing. It is bloody cold here, and not much fun! I am here for a two day meeting, departing on 30/11 to return home.

Please can experienced members give me any information as to what else I can do in this situation? Any advice gratefully received.

Thanks, Matt

 

[Danger]

The first two words that come to mind are travel insurance. Do you have any?

First, I can't see how Qatar can escape any liability here. Whether they carried your bags or sent them by horse and cart to Vienna, it absolutely was Qatar's responsibility to get them there; your contract is with them, not airberlin or anyone else.

I think Qatar's customer service is pretty average at the best of times and that view is certainly reinforced by fobbing off a top tier FF in their own program. But persist with them. It is absolutely vital that you keep accurate records of everyone you speak to, when you speak to them and what is said. Keep calling QR. It may pay to call their number in a English as a first language country (assuming their calls don't divert to Qatar). You might have more luck. Remind them you didn't buy a ticket with AB; you bought one with QR. It's their job to fix it.

Were your flights (originally) on the same ticket (ie. MEL-DOH-VIE)? I don't think it matters either way as to where the responsibility lies (it's still with QR) but if it was on the one ticket the baggage check receipt issued in MEL should assist with lodging a missing bag report.

I would not expect any response from AB. Persist with QR, again and again. And if you have travel insurance get onto that straight away too.

 

[RooFlyer]

I totally agree with Danger in every respect - including calling QR in, say, the UK. It may get diverted if they centralise calls, but if not, it would be better than calling say, the Gulf. When LH cancelled my flight out of Morocco, it was useless calling locally or even Germany - it was only when I called the UK number that I got traction.

If you don't have travel insurance direct, what about credit card type travel insurance, if you paid for the flights on a cc.

 

[OATEK]

The only upside is a potential visit to Peek and Cloppenburg for some replacements.

If AB don't have any record I can only think the bags might floating around in Rome, and as you will likely have a different route home I suspect there is not much can be done until you are back. Could be a case where the AFF tracker tags might have come in handy.

Good luck though, it is no fun to be in this situation.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The first two words that come to mind are travel insurance. Do you have any?

First, I can't see how Qatar can escape any liability here. Whether they carried your bags or sent them by horse and cart to Vienna, it absolutely was Qatar's responsibility to get them there; your contract is with them, not airberlin or anyone else.

I think Qatar's customer service is pretty average at the best of times and that view is certainly reinforced by fobbing off a top tier FF in their own program. But persist with them. It is absolutely vital that you keep accurate records of everyone you speak to, when you speak to them and what is said. Keep calling QR. It may pay to call their number in a English as a first language country (assuming their calls don't divert to Qatar). You might have more luck. Remind them you didn't buy a ticket with AB; you bought one with QR. It's their job to fix it.

Were your flights (originally) on the same ticket (ie. MEL-DOH-VIE)? I don't think it matters either way as to where the responsibility lies (it's still with QR) but if it was on the one ticket the baggage check receipt issued in MEL should assist with lodging a missing bag report.

I would not expect any response from AB. Persist with QR, again and again. And if you have travel insurance get onto that straight away too.

The contract is actually with Air Berlin for the last leg, Qatar sold that flight as agent for Air Berlin. Under standard international airline operations, the last carrier is responsible for the baggage. That QR didn't provide a revised bag tag is a hurdle.

For future reference, a good place to confirm your bags are 'on board' is at the gate - approach the gate agent and ask them to check your bags have been recorded as loaded. But this would require the bag receipts. Perhaps at that stage however the problem with missing bag tags would have made the job slightly easier.

Worth contacting QR to ask is they can trace the original tags, or if they have new tags in the system. But the responsibility is indeed with Air Berlin.

 

[clifford]

But the responsibility is indeed with Air Berlin.

Even if the bags were never sent to FCO by QR? (and who knows if they were?).

Agree that IRROPS are not handled at all well by QR, or indeed, by any other Middle East carrier. Personal experience tells me this.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Even if the bags were never sent to FCO by QR? (and who knows if they were?).

Agree that IRROPS are not handled at all well by QR, or indeed, by any other Middle East carrier. Personal experience tells me this.

The final carrier is responsible for baggage delays/loss. This is an IATA agreement. I guess in a way this simplifies it for passengers and stops the finger pointing where the last carrier tries to blame it on someone else... which could prove costly and time consuming for the passenger to try and do their own investigations across different airlines.

 

[mrdctau]

I would recommend carry-on baggage only if you are only going away for a few days.

 

[Danger]

The contract is actually with Air Berlin for the last leg, Qatar sold that flight as agent for Air Berlin. Under standard international airline operations, the last carrier is responsible for the baggage. That QR didn't provide a revised bag tag is a hurdle.

For future reference, a good place to confirm your bags are 'on board' is at the gate - approach the gate agent and ask them to check your bags have been recorded as loaded. But this would require the bag receipts. Perhaps at that stage however the problem with missing bag tags would have made the job slightly easier.

Worth contacting QR to ask is they can trace the original tags, or if they have new tags in the system. But the responsibility is indeed with Air Berlin.

If the AB flight was purchased as a standalone ticket then I would agree that the contract is with them. However, if it was one ticket, all on the PNR and QR stock, I firmly believe the contract is with QR and it's up to them to sort the mess.

I do understand that the final carrier has responsibility. However, in this case, that carrier has no record of the luggage which presumably is the fault of QR. Qatar, therefore, is the one to hammer.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If the AB flight was purchased as a standalone ticket then I would agree that the contract is with them. However, if it was one ticket, all on the PNR and QR stock, I firmly believe the contract is with QR and it's up to them to sort the mess.

I do understand that the final carrier has responsibility. However, in this case, that carrier has no record of the luggage which presumably is the fault of QR. Qatar, therefore, is the one to hammer.

unfortunately not, the contract of carriage for the last flight is with air Berlin, even if QR uses their ticket stock and was the carrier on the preceding flights. QR has issued the ticket as agent for Air Berlin for that flight.

air berlin may be able to claim from QR, eventually, if they can show (for example) QR never delivered the bags a the transit point. But that's something for AB to sort out with QR at some later stage. The passenger needs only deal with air Berlin as per IATA arrangements.

 

[Danger]

unfortunately not, the contract of carriage for the last flight is with air Berlin, even if QR uses their ticket stock and was the carrier on the preceding flights. QR has issued the ticket as agent for Air Berlin for that flight.

air berlin may be able to claim from QR, eventually, if they can show (for example) QR never delivered the bags a the transit point. But that's something for AB to sort out with QR at some later stage. The passenger needs only deal with air Berlin as per IATA arrangements.

Well that stuns me. It's like getting a landscaper in to spruce up your front yard. He sub-contracts his mate to dump a load of sand that suffocates the kids' rabbit. The owner's beef is with the landscaper as that's who the contract is with. I'm very surprised to learn it works differently in the airline world.

Drcrox, do you have an update? Any luck pestering QR?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well that stuns me. It's like getting a landscaper in to spruce up your front yard. He sub-contracts his mate to dump a load of sand that suffocates the kids' rabbit. The owner's beef is with the landscaper as that's who the contract is with. I'm very surprised to learn it works differently in the airline world.

Drcrox, do you have an update? Any luck pestering QR?

It appears there is an exception with relation to claims for baggage - although it's not entirely clear when this ability kicks in.

While digging around I noticed Qatar Airways' contract of carriage (which is mirrored by many airlines, including Qantas), states the airline issues its tickets as agent for the operating carrier... however... it says with specific respect to checked baggage (only), a passenger also has a right of action against the first or last carrier.

Qatar:

II. General
To the extent not in conflict with foregoing and whether or not the Convention applies:
(i) We are liable only for damage occurring on our own flights. If we issue a Ticket or check Baggage over the lines of another Carrier we do so only as agent for such other Carrier. Nevertheless, with respect to Checked Baggage you also have a right of action against the first or last Carrier, where the carriage is, in accordance with these conditions, considered to be a single operation.

Qantas:

[h=3]16.4 Damage to Your Baggage[/h](a) General

• We will be liable only for damage or delay occurring during carriage ticketed on our Airline Designator Code. If we issue a Ticket or check Baggage on the Airline Designator Code of another Carrier, we only do so as agent for that Carrier. Nevertheless, with respect to Checked Baggage, you may also have a right of action against the first or last Carrier on your Ticket

However a right of action would imply either delay compensation or loss rather than the tracing of bags. So it's probably the IATA agreement that applies in those cases.

 

[Danger]

Any update, Drcrox?

 

[Danger]

No update from Drcrox so I'll hijack with my own Christmas luggage disaster. Ironically, it also involved airberlin.

Overnight on 23 December I flew SYD-AUH and connected onto AUH-TXL with AB on a separate ticket. The Menzies contract agent at Sydney checked me through but suggested I check at AUH to ensure my bag was through checked. I did, at the EY First lounge, where I was told the system was showing it had been loaded. In hindsight I suspect there was either a misunderstanding (the agent thinking I wanted to confirm whether my bag made it on the SYD-AUH flight) or she was just plain wrong as at the time of checking baggage loading for the AB flight wouldn't have commenced.

On arrival at TXL, no bag. Now I know AB is considered a LCC and I know the airline doesn't even have a lounge at its home airport but what surprised me no end is the fact that it doesn't even have its own staff! It's all contracted out. So I lodge my missing baggage claim with the ground handler who informs me there is no information as to the bag's location.

Of course it was Christmas Eve so by the time I arrived at my hotel all the shops had shut. I'm left with the pair of jeans and shirt I've been wearing for two days. To their great credit the concierge staff at the Grand Hyatt kindly loaned me one of the porters' coats which at least allowed me to spend a few minutes outside viewing the Christmas decorations. I'm told, however, that everything is shut until 27 December and they indicated it wasn't even possible to buy essential items.

Eighteen hours on and WorldTracer is still indicating no information. This is the second occasion in three trips that my bag has gone missing. Earlier this year BA lost it - on a simple LIN-LHR of all flights - and it took two weeks for the bag to be found in Perth (but several more weeks for BA searching for it because their monumentally flawed system never showed it as being located). So my Christmas is a whole lot less joyous this year.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That's a shame.

If you have concerns whether a bag has been loaded the gate at boarding time is a good place to check. If it hasn't perhaps not enough time to rectify the situation there and then, but at least they know where it is and can start it on its way.

 

[Danger]

That's a shame.

If you have concerns whether a bag has been loaded the gate at boarding time is a good place to check. If it hasn't perhaps not enough time to rectify the situation there and then, but at least they know where it is and can start it on its way.

Thanks for that. I'll keep it in mind.

 

[JohnK]

That's a shame.

If you have concerns whether a bag has been loaded the gate at boarding time is a good place to check. If it hasn't perhaps not enough time to rectify the situation there and then, but at least they know where it is and can start it on its way.

I've done this with CX. I was told luggage on board. They have no idea.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I've done this with CX. I was told luggage on board. They have no idea.

And the bags weren't? Maybe you got a not so good agent I have done this with CX and they take the bag tags and tap away. A couple months ago even had passenger sitting the row in front ask the cabin crew after boarding about whether their bags were on the flight (we were heavily delayed out of PVG and several flights were combined). The cabin crew took the bag tags and gave them to ground crew who went off and confirmed the bags were on.

 

[bam71]

We always now travel with a track dot

https://trakdot.com/en

 

[JohnK]

And the bags weren't?

Luggage not on board.

It was an unusual routing and I was met at 2 airports (HKG twice and TPE) and was assured the luggage would make it on the final HKG-BKK flight. Asked at lounge and gate and was told all ok. Luggage did not make it to flight. Arrived next day TPE-BKK on TG.

Not a big deal but goes to show that staff not always in control. Also disappointing that my transit time in TPE and HKG twice was taken up trying to sort luggage issues.