Free upgrades might be the real difference between good airlines

[abstraction]

Since they have begun working together, comparing Qantas & Emirates, I find the service very similar - usually excellent. Lately I find Qantas onboard treatment perhaps slightly warmer than Emirates, but both very, very good. I also find both have first class lounges of the highest standard.

I fly a lot of very long-haul on discount economy - i work for an NGO, that's my lot. I usually can't upgrade with points. So complementary upgrades for me mean a lot, more than the lounge access and other benefits. Flying takes a huge toll on me. So I analysed my flights over the last 12 months.

Airline	Flights	Premium+	Business+
Qantas domestic	13		1
Qantas international	24	1
Emirates	14		4
LAN	4		(Never)
American	12		(Never)
TOTAL ONE WORLD/ETC	67
Other airlines	10
TOTAL FLIGHTS 12 months	77

+ complementary upgrades
* American = in 15 years no upgrades.

So... Emirates 30% of flights vs. Qantas 5% of flights were upgraded. Emirates is moderate or long-haul upgraded to business class with skybed. Qantas - one domestic business upgrade: is nice, but an hour to Sydney isn't that big a deal. One premium, which was really appreciated, don't get me wrong, but not like a skybed.

So... is this the real separator between the two airlines for discount economy platinums/golds?

On one particular horror run of >40 hours this year I wrote and asked them for a special dispensation for an upgrade. I cheekily mentioned that Emirates tend to upgrade regularly. The response was along the lines (not exact quote, but correct tone): It's not our policy to give complementary upgrades. If you want to know more about Emirates' policy, here is their website.
Ok, it's only discount economy, but I represent a segment of discount economy platinums and golds that still overall make a substantial investment in Qantas. Currently.

 

[Pleb Status]

Do not feel too unloved by QF. Seven years as WP and now a P1 and I have only had two Op Ups on QF international (none as a P1). Both Op Ups on oversold flights so they had to upgrade someone. I have had six Op Ups on CX in that time, one on AA and one on BA as well.

 

[AIRwin]

I joined the Qantas Frequent Flyer program back in 1995 and have mostly been flying QF since but not one single op up.

Recently I flew Etihad for the first time and was all prepared to be stuck in the middle seat on a full flight. Lo and behold, there was an unfamiliar sound of a (welcome) beep when my boarding pass was scanned at the gate and I was asked to proceed to the adjacent desk only to be promptly reissued one on business class! Not sure if it helped that I'm Silver with Velocity...

 

[Nizar]

Not surprising. I hear that EK and EY tend to upgrade quite often, upto say a third to half the time if you have status.
Maybe its better for the airlines' profitability to have a policy of not giving complimentary upgrades, but its certainly not better for the customer. Happy customers means more longer term loyalty. But when will QF learn ?

 

[suparockin]

I think it's pretty obvious that op ups just don't happen often enough to be much of a reason to fly one airline over another.

I'd say points upgrade availability is the best thing about Qantas, I've had fairly amazing success getting upgrades at very reasonable points cost.

 

[Nizar]

I'd say points upgrade availability is the best thing about Qantas

Tend to disagree, how is it the best thing about qantas upgrades when for a ticket to be upgradeable you often need to pay 50-100% more than the cheapest Y fare only to be placed in a lottery and only then to miss out due to lack of status or luck, etc.

I actually never use QF points to upgrade, ever. Only for outright award redemptions so far in J but hopefully soon in F.

I'd say the best thing about QF is the ability to earn full points even on the cheapest fares. But now we are getting off topic.

And as the OP has shown through the data presented, op-ups don't happen often enough only if you're a QF customer. 4 out of 14 flights (ratio on Emirates) would certainly be often enough for me to question continuing to fly QF on the same routes for similar money.

 

[ric_melb]

Frankly I think this just demonstrates that Qantas have better yield management than Emirates.
And also Qantas are better able to fill their premium cabins with paying customers than Emirates.
My opinion is that Emirates more often upgrade economy passengers to Business, because they regularly over book Economy and have spare seats in Business.

 

[Nizar]

Frankly I think this just demonstrates that Qantas have better yield management than Emirates.
And also Qantas are better able to fill their premium cabins with paying customers than Emirates.
My opinion is that Emirates more often upgrade economy passengers to Business, because they regularly over book Economy and have spare seats in Business.

Does that matter though ?
As a customer, which is more important, that you fly an airline with better yield management or that you fly an airline that upgrades you more often ?
I know which one I'd be choosing.

 

[suparockin]

I'm guessing they are trying to poach some QFF who have status.

Of course op ups are great, if that % was to stay that high then yeah I agree but it just doesn't make much sense that it would.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I know in the grand scheme of things that anecdotes are useless but
I was at a party on Saturday afternoon and the subject of long haul flights came up. Not knowing my fellow guests too well I decided to shut up and listen for fear of boring them. A couple were talking fondly about the benefits of status. One had booked a Y fare LHR-SYD and upgraded using miles to J. Arrived at check-in and was upgraded to F.
He was reminiscing about the loss of his Skywards Silver due to a drop in travel :shock:
I'm not entirely sure which airline has it right?

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

I've only ever had one op-up on Qantas compared with about 10 on other carriers, some of which I had no status with.

I'd say points upgrade availability is the best thing about Qantas, I've had fairly amazing success getting upgrades at very reasonable points cost.

I'm not sure that spending 72,000 QFF points to upgrade SYD-LAX from Economy is that reasonable, given than 62,500 is what AAdvantage would charge you for a Business award ticket on that sector! (Qantas' stingy availability to AA aside).

 

[amaroo]

These days just about all of my Long haul travel is in family pack mode of 4.....no chance of getting sly upgrades.

On a single sortie basis I've been pretty lucky over my 8 years of WP......heaps of Dom and 4 long haul. One of those was a double OpUp as it included the wife.

 

[JohnK]

I dont mind travelling economy and I like Qantas international economy and the past year or so their airfares have been extremely good value as well. And as a Platinum it usually means that I get to choose some of the best economy seats making my flight comfortable. The op-ups are nice but they are not going to happen all the time no matter which airline you fly.

 

[Nizar]

The op-ups are nice but they are not going to happen all the time no matter which airline you fly.

No doubt, but as a WP on QF, and flying in Y as much as you do, do they even happen some of the time ? Any of the time ?

 

[JohnK]

No doubt, but as a WP on QF, and flying in Y as much as you do, do they even happen some of the time ? Any of the time ?

This is not a great year for op-ups but more than acceptable.

OCT13 SINGAPORE/BRISBANE QF 052 PREMIUM ECONOMY/BUSINESS
SEP13 SYDNEY/BRISBANE QF 540 ECONOMY/BUSINESS
JUL13 SINGAPORE/SYDNEY QF 006 ECONOMY/PREMIUM ECONOMY
JAN13 HONG KONG/SYDNEY QF 128 ECONOMY/PREMIUM ECONOMY

 

[trippin_the_rift]

The question is.... do free upgrades mean greater loyalty?

 

[suparockin]

All my op ups have been in the USA when I had no status at all, that was pre-GFC and I presume loads were heavier - make sense of that!

 

[Anna]

Op ups are more frequently given by airlines which don't manage their ops as well as QF does. QF doesn't overbook to the same extent as other airlines and therefore has less need to move people forward to make room at the back. The corollary also is that fewer people get denied boarding due to overbooking. The best chance of getting an op up on QF is to travel at a peak time. I've had several QF op ups both dom and int when travelling at Xmas or end of school holidays, for example.

If you're talking about free upgrades for status pax simply because of status rather than because of an operational need, that's been discussed many times on AFF before and is a different issue. Unlike other airlines which fill the premium cabins with upgraded pax, QF tends to keep the premium cabins for people who pay to be there, in cash or points. EK may well have a different policy on free upgrades and maybe overbooks more than QF leading to more op ups - I don't know their policies.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't mind the odd op up. I've been quite fortunate with QF in that regard.
Of course they can't tell wether I have flown with other carriers more than with them ( except when I am asked to do a feed back survey on board) but if that is the case they (QF) will see that I fly almost exclusively with them. It's my preference. But I prefer to try and upgrade with points as a preference as I suspect I may have more luck in scoring that seat in J

 

[MelUser]

Qantas don't need to give op ups.

They seem to fill most F and J seats with points upgrades.

In fact now with a points upgrade you can tick "consider me for an upgrade right up until boarding".

With this approach it means that they have little if any seats ever for an opup.

They will first do all points upgrades via the the normal upgrades right up until T-5 and then the airport/gate ones for those who have ticked the box above.

They also have staff who are travelling on standby who can take a business seat.

To me this is one of the pluses of the QF system - they are transparent - if you want an upgrade - put in a points request and we will follow a pecking order.

I have never had an OPUP with Qantas but I have received all J-F points upgrades and nearly all upgrades from Y to J - in fact I have had a group of 8 upgraded from Y-J from MEL to LAX and then LAX to MEL - Sat on way over and Friday night on way back - so very high demand days for Qantas. I consider that Qantas has always done the right thing by me and will continue to support their points upgrade system.