DONE4 planning - same city, different airports - counts as sector?

[Will]

Having some difficulty with the OW RTW planner;

My itinerary (JNB-LHR-CAI-MAD-TLV-LON-MCO-LAX-ORD-MSY-NYC-SYD-AKL-MEL-CNS-SYD-JNB) is shown as valid on mileage monkey, but invalid according to the OW RTW planner.

It's telling me that transfers LHR//LGW and LGA//JFK count towards my 16 segments. Anyone had any experience of this? Is the OW RTW planner just wrong?

Can't find any reference to this in the technical rule sheet.

 

[Keith009]

Surface segments, which include those between different airports in the same city, will count towards the 16 segment limit.

 

[simongr]

This has been in place for a few years now - I think preceding the reduction from 20 to 16 segments.

 

[serfty]

If you gen get an agent to issue a paper ticket that says LON for each of LHR/LGW and NYV for each of JFK/LGA/EWR then you can avoid the issue.

However, it does make things harder to book/change; let alone getting it ticketed like this in the first place..

 

[drron]

I thought that JFK/LGA though were counted as one-I have had several DONEs flying into LGA and out of JFK with 16 other segments.Booked by TA though but tickets are electronic and do state LGA and JFK.

 

[Keith009]

I have not attempted to book surface segments within the same city so I'm not sure how the rule is implemented in practise, but it does say this in the technical rule sheet:

A minimum of 3 and maximum of 16 segments, including surface segments between any 2 airports, are permitted for the entire journey.

 

[serfty]

"Surface" segments:

• DO count against your 16 segment maximum.
• DO NOT count against your continental 4 (6) segment limit.

I thought that JFK/LGA though were counted as one-I have had several DONEs flying into LGA and out of JFK with 16 other segments.Booked by TA though but tickets are electronic and do state LGA and JFK.

Seems you have a TA prepared to go the "Extra Mile".

AFAIK, this treatment of co-terminal travel is not part of the xONEx rules, it's more of a GDS limitation and many agents/airlines treat such travel as using a segment.

 

[NM]

While they count towards the maximum of 16 segments for the ticket, they do not count towards the maximum number of segments per continent.

 

[serfty]

For what it worth, the xONEx rules are actually specific about this difference continental limit relating to FLIGHT segments:

.

A minimum of 3 and [U]maximum of 16 segments, including surface segments between any 
2 airports[/U], are permitted for the entire journey.  Free [B]flight[/B] segments 
within each continent are limited as follows:

    Africa               4
    Asia                 4
    Europe / Middle East 4 (Not more than 2 of which may be between the UK and ALGERIA,
                            BOSNIA & HERZEGOVINA, BULGARIA, CROATIA, CYPRUS, GREECE, 
                            ISRAEL, LIBYA, MALTA, MIDDLE EAST , MOROCCO, PORTUGAL, 
                            ROMANIA, RUSSIA, SERBIA, TUNISIA, UKRAINE whether part of 
                            the free continent allowance of 4 coupons, purchased as 
                            additional coupons, or a combination of both)
    North America        6
    South America        4
    South West Pacific   4

My underlining, the bolding is actually present within the document.

 

[Will]

Thanks all. Guess I'll just have to keep pounding through the combinations until something works!

Seems a little penny-pinching to restrict those transfers!

If you gen get an agent to issue a paper ticket that says LON for each of LHR/LGW and NYV for each of JFK/LGA/EWR then you can avoid the issue.

Are paper tickets still available for purchase? I thought they went out in 2008!

 

[serfty]

... Are paper tickets still available for purchase? I thought they went out in 2008!

Some agents in some origins still don't have e-ticket facilities so need to produce paper tickets. (I can't provide a definitive list)

Some airlines/agents will as well depending upon circumstances. (Again I have not used any.)

Note for a 20 segment xONEx purchased in early 2008 though AA, they employed paper tickets as SABRE was supposedly not able to cope with > 16 segment bookings.

 

[Keith009]

Note for a 20 segment xONEx purchased in early 2008 though AA, they employed paper tickets as SABRE was supposedly not able to cope with > 16 segment bookings.

Have had 2 of those - they're also handwritten! Real beauties.

 

[NM]

Seems a little penny-pinching to restrict those transfers!

not so much penny pinching as a limitation of the ticketing systems.

 

[ChrisBNE]

Those cities are not coutned as open jaw and should show as the main city code (NYC/LON) on the ticket. SYDJFK//LGABOSMCOLGW//LHRSYD would be 5 coupons.

 

[NM]

Those cities are not coutned as open jaw and should show as the main city code (NYC/LON) on the ticket. SYDJFK//LGABOSMCOLGW//LHRSYD would be 5 coupons.

Not for a OneWorld Explorer fare when counting segments against the maximum number of segments permitted. As already posted above from the fare rules, that would be 7 segments when counting towards the maximum of 16 permitted in the itinerary.

An e-ticketed OneWorld Explorer ticket cannot use generic city codes and must use the airport codes for origin and destination of the specific flights. A paper ticket may permit the use of city codes such as LON or NYC if you can find an agent that will issue on a paper ticket.

 

[ChrisBNE]

Not for a OneWorld Explorer fare when counting segments against the maximum number of segments permitted. As already posted above from the fare rules, that would be 7 segments when counting towards the maximum of 16 permitted in the itinerary.

An e-ticketed OneWorld Explorer ticket cannot use generic city codes and must use the airport codes for origin and destination of the specific flights. A paper ticket may permit the use of city codes such as LON or NYC if you can find an agent that will issue on a paper ticket.

... straight from Amadeus:
------------------------------------------------------------
AL FLGT BK T DATE TIME FARE BASIS NVB NVA BG
SYD
NYC QF 0107 D D 10NOV 1200 DONE4 2P
MIA AA 2203 A A 12NOV 0600 DONE4 2P
XORL AA 1990 A A 15NOV 1615 DONE4 2P
LON BA 2036 D D 15NOV 1830 DONE4 3P
SYD QF 0002 D D 20NOV 2145 DONE4 2P

AUD 11490.00 10NOV10SYD QF NYC AA MIA AA X/ORL BA LON
QF(EH)SYD M10438.09NUC10438.09END ROE
AUD 25.00YR 1.100776
AUD 340.00YQ XT AUD 4.90YQ AUD 50.00WY AUD 47.00AU AUD
AUD 478.50XT 6.70YC AUD 6.10XA AUD 8.50XY AUD 12.40AY
AUD 12333.50 AUD 297.20GB AUD 40.20UB AUD 5.50XF MCO
4.50
> PAGE 2/ 3

 

[Will]

... straight from Amadeus:
------------------------------------------------------------
AL FLGT BK T DATE TIME FARE BASIS NVB NVA BG
SYD
NYC QF 0107 D D 10NOV 1200 DONE4 2P
MIA AA 2203 A A 12NOV 0600 DONE4 2P
XORL AA 1990 A A 15NOV 1615 DONE4 2P
LON BA 2036 D D 15NOV 1830 DONE4 3P
SYD QF 0002 D D 20NOV 2145 DONE4 2P

AUD 11490.00 10NOV10SYD QF NYC AA MIA AA X/ORL BA LON
QF(EH)SYD M10438.09NUC10438.09END ROE
AUD 25.00YR 1.100776
AUD 340.00YQ XT AUD 4.90YQ AUD 50.00WY AUD 47.00AU AUD
AUD 478.50XT 6.70YC AUD 6.10XA AUD 8.50XY AUD 12.40AY
AUD 12333.50 AUD 297.20GB AUD 40.20UB AUD 5.50XF MCO
4.50
> PAGE 2/ 3

Interesting!

I'll be calling AA RTW in Dallas tonight or tomorrow night - will let you know what they say.

 

[ChrisBNE]

Interesting!

I'll be calling AA RTW in Dallas tonight or tomorrow night - will let you know what they say.

If you need more I'll issue a ticket and void.

EDIT: I understand how you are all reading the rules regarding airport, but we issue tickets as per above fare no problems. Cities such as PAR, LON, WAS, NYC etc are all known as multi airport cities.

 

[Will]

If you need more I'll issue a ticket and void.

EDIT: I understand how you are all reading the rules regarding airport, but we issue tickets as per above fare no problems. Cities such as PAR, LON, WAS, NYC etc are all known as multi airport cities.

Many thanks for your help! I was planning on ticketing through AA to try to avoid QF fuel fines on the transpac segment, so I'll see if they allow it. Maybe AA, issuing through Sabre, has more restrictive systems than QF?

 

[serfty]

Note that wihile Amadeus may be able to do this these days; AA uses SABRE and some reports indicate is it not yet feasible.

Of course, there are always conjunction tickets, but most booking agents seem to react like you have put a curse on them and their firstborn should you mention that term.:-|