Does this happen often? [Luck of draw due to IRROPS?]

[mel-world]

Before I write to Virgin, I am wondering if this happens all the time....

Short story - a 'new' Diamond booked on VA807 MEL-SYD 30 May on Flexi L class fare. Arrive lounge at 0545 for 0630 departure. Okay fog in Sydney - moved to VA809 at 0645 - not bad except 3C becomes a middle seat somewhere further back. No announcements and board shows on-time at 0645 so get to gate at 0620 as like to know my bags might be somewhere near me on-board. Still shows 0645, then 0710 then 0800 with a couple of pa apologies. I think - such is life and traffic into Australia's 'flagship' airport. Board around 0740, push back at 0800, wheels up at 0817, arrive 0918. Missed 0900 meeting.

But looking at Flight Track for MEL-SYD this morning (in order of departure):

0600 and 0630 cancelled.

VA 811 scheduled 0700 departs 0735 arr 0903 = 38 mins late arriving
VA 817 scheduled 0745 departs 0753 arr 0907 = 3 mins early
VA 809 scheduled 0645 departs 0755 arr 0921 = 1hr11 late
VA 819 scheduled 0800 departs 0804 arr 0939 = 14 mins late
VA 813 scheduled 0715 departs 0807 arr 0943 = 1hr 02 late
VA 815 scheduled 0730 departs 0827 arr 1000 = 1hr 05 late

So is it just the luck of the draw that someone booked on an 0630 flight can arrive 14 mins after someone booked on a flight due to leave 1 hour and 15 mins later? Why can one flight be 1.11 hours late and another 3 mins early? Our flight was not awaiting for an incoming aircraft or for late passengers as our flight closed at 0710 and was always at the gate - could only have been consideration given to the next flights by certain aircraft and/or crew but hardly shows any respect for fare paying passengers if that is the case.

As I said; does this happen all the time?

 

[mannej]

I guess without knowing what was going on up front, you don't have all the facts as to why which aircraft departed in what order.
I don't think writing to Virgin would achieve anything or is worth it

 

[opusman]

Your plane was delayed due to fog, the other planes weren't.

 

[mel-world]

Nothing was going on 'up front'. We were ready to go, it was reported as Traffic Delays in SYD.

 

[moa999]

As I said; does this happen all the time?

Doesn't fog in sydney much.
otherwise they would have cat3.

probably just luck of the draw on a busy day for atc everywhere.

 

[oz_mark]

Wouldn't say it happens all the time, but it certainly does happen. And it has happened to me in the past.

 

[lovestotravel]

Often - No
Does it happen - Yes

 

[mannej]

Nothing was going on 'up front'. We were ready to go, it was reported as Traffic Delays in SYD.

Unless you were privy to everything I don't think you can say that with any certainty

 

[dandandan]

Traffic control would have been in charge, logical thought process and query but that is the ups and down of travel and nothing you can really do about it, especially when it is a weather event. At least you didn't miss a wedding, my delayed flight last year caused me to miss the ceremony part of my brothers wedding even though we left plenty of time to get there in case of delays, typical things happen on occasions like that. At least we made the reception though. I will definitely leave earlier for the next wedding!

Before I write to Virgin, I am wondering if this happens all the time....

Short story - a 'new' Diamond booked on VA807 MEL-SYD 30 May on Flexi L class fare. Arrive lounge at 0545 for 0630 departure. Okay fog in Sydney - moved to VA809 at 0645 - not bad except 3C becomes a middle seat somewhere further back. No announcements and board shows on-time at 0645 so get to gate at 0620 as like to know my bags might be somewhere near me on-board. Still shows 0645, then 0710 then 0800 with a couple of pa apologies. I think - such is life and traffic into Australia's 'flagship' airport. Board around 0740, push back at 0800, wheels up at 0817, arrive 0918. Missed 0900 meeting.

But looking at Flight Track for MEL-SYD this morning (in order of departure):

0600 and 0630 cancelled.

VA 811 scheduled 0700 departs 0735 arr 0903 = 38 mins late arriving
VA 817 scheduled 0745 departs 0753 arr 0907 = 3 mins early
VA 809 scheduled 0645 departs 0755 arr 0921 = 1hr11 late
VA 819 scheduled 0800 departs 0804 arr 0939 = 14 mins late
VA 813 scheduled 0715 departs 0807 arr 0943 = 1hr 02 late
VA 815 scheduled 0730 departs 0827 arr 1000 = 1hr 05 late

So is it just the luck of the draw that someone booked on an 0630 flight can arrive 14 mins after someone booked on a flight due to leave 1 hour and 15 mins later? Why can one flight be 1.11 hours late and another 3 mins early? Our flight was not awaiting for an incoming aircraft or for late passengers as our flight closed at 0710 and was always at the gate - could only have been consideration given to the next flights by certain aircraft and/or crew but hardly shows any respect for fare paying passengers if that is the case.

As I said; does this happen all the time?

 

[opusman]

Maybe once you've lost your take-off slot you have to wait for another to open up?

 

[JohnK]

Wouldn't say it happens all the time, but it certainly does happen. And it has happened to me in the past.

And it may have happened to me once or twice!

I feel sorry for the OP. It is not a regular occurrence but it does happen. If I take an earlier flight there is a very good chance I am going to arrive after my original flight.

So for that reason I take my chances with my original flight unless it is cancelled or looks like missing curfew.

 

[here2go]

I've been stuck in Brisbane for 24 hours en route to Darwin as a combo of bad weather and lack of ILS blocked slowed Sydney right down on 1 March. Jetstar and Qantas were impacted too. When it happens, the whole network turns to cactus, and everybody is grumpy with extra long queues as people's travel is being rearranged. Below is a photo of Sydney checkin on the day.

 

[AIRwin]

The reverse does happen as well - once I was travelling from SYD to MEL after a company offsite as part of a corporate group booking. Our flight DJ874 was scheduled to depart at 6 pm but when the bus load of us arrived at the airport and queued up to check in, we found out that it was cancelled. At the time I had been recently successful in applying for a status match. When I noticed the priority check-in desk, it occurred to me that I should be using it instead. I immediately proceeded there and was re-booked on DJ872, so I ended up arriving in MEL slightly earlier than the original scheduled time. Others weren't as lucky and ended up on later flights...

 

[Jama]

Do you delay the first flight and slot it in at a later time where it fits or do you push back all flights and send them in order. The first option may not be great for those on that flight but it certainly is the best option in that it disrupts the least number of people keeping as many flights on track as possible.

 

[markis10]

Maybe once you've lost your take-off slot you have to wait for another to open up?

Pretty much the way things are handled, why make everyone late by shifting all flights which also creates more work. Keeping things as normal as much as possible simply means things are easy to fix, if it does seem unfair to those who are on the earlier flight.

 

[mel-world]

Pretty much the way things are handled, why make everyone late by shifting all flights which also creates more work. Keeping things as normal as much as possible simply means things are easy to fix, if it does seem unfair to those who are on the earlier flight.

Okay, I take the point several of you have raised but I do think we are all becoming far too complacent in accepting second rate service with little of no accountability as it is increasingly difficult to have anyone accept responsibility.

Let me use an analogy and see whether you would happily accept this as acceptable. You arrive at a restaurant with your guests for a confirmed 6.30 booking. The table is waiting but there is a problem in the kitchen so you are sent to the bar and later shown to your table but not served even though the waiter is ready. In the meantime, other guests arrive, are sent to their tables and start eating before your order is taken. The head waiter (flight ops) explains that the kitchen is now open but it is easier to serve those who came later so we will just keep you and your guests waiting. I guess some of you would just suck it up.

Not blaming the fog or the pilot (who said twice they were ready to go) but more VA Flight Ops for their operational planning. Interesting to read the various opinions though.

 

[mannej]

We get the fact that you are annoyed you were put out by your delay, however your restaurant analogy is a bit too simple, considering the many factors involved that you are not privy to.
In terms of accepting second rate service, it is one of those things that is an unfortunate consequence of the complexities of air travel. Your one flight is just a very small piece of the puzzle.

 

[Hvr]

Whilst it hasn't happened to me on Virgin it did happen to me on Qantas.

I did the check in at the lounge and was offered an earlier flight (about 20 minutes). Sadly my new flight was delayed and the original flight got to my destination much earlier than my new flight.

Fly often enough and it will happen. Que sera sera

 

[markis10]

Okay, I take the point several of you have raised but I do think we are all becoming far too complacent in accepting second rate service with little of no accountability as it is increasingly difficult to have anyone accept responsibility.

Let me use an analogy and see whether you would happily accept this as acceptable. You arrive at a restaurant with your guests for a confirmed 6.30 booking. The table is waiting but there is a problem in the kitchen so you are sent to the bar and later shown to your table but not served even though the waiter is ready. In the meantime, other guests arrive, are sent to their tables and start eating before your order is taken. The head waiter (flight ops) explains that the kitchen is now open but it is easier to serve those who came later so we will just keep you and your guests waiting. I guess some of you would just suck it up.

Not blaming the fog or the pilot (who said twice they were ready to go) but more VA Flight Ops for their operational planning. Interesting to read the various opinions though.

Poor analogy, I have seen a restaurant that had a fire in the kitchen before the first of two services, those in the first were offered spare tables in the second as the only option, remarkably similar to what happens with planes! The point once again is why hold up 200 people when it's only necessary to delay a portion if the first 100, of course things may work differently in a communist environment!

 

[mel-world]

We get the fact that you are annoyed you were put out by your delay, however your restaurant analogy is a bit too simple, considering the many factors involved that you are not privy to.
In terms of accepting second rate service, it is one of those things that is an unfortunate consequence of the complexities of air travel. Your one flight is just a very small piece of the puzzle.

Okay, take your point but what are the 'many factors' I may not be 'privy to'? We were loaded, the doors were shut, the pilot announced twice that we were all ready to go. As I see it, VA flight ops decided to delay our flight rather than some later flights for reasons known only to them. I guess I will just have to accept that but, in my opinion, it was second rate service and will count against VA domestic.