compensation for flight delay on BA - stuck in Bangkok due to volcanoe dust cloud

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Jeffrey O'Neill

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I've done a bit of googling and not really found an answer.

Just wondering if I am entitled to any compensation from BA as my flight has been cancelled and I am sched to now leave on the 20th - if flights start again Monday.

I've got a bit of cover thru my CC insurance, but it's limited to $275 which is Ok if i get away by the 20th, not so good if th delay goes much longer

I'm booked on a points ticket so am expecting if the delay gets much worse I may be down th bottom of the pile to get a seat.

Hoping someone has a link tha points me in the roght direction as the BA callc entre in BKK is closed over the weekend.
 
Jeff - the long and short answer to your enquiry is simnple - NO.

As the cause of the disruption is a matter outside of the control of the airline - a natural disaster - then the airline is not responsible for compensation. They will honour your ticket, but out-of-pocket expenses are not their resonsibility.

Qantas flyers stranded elsewhere are being offered flights home if they so wish - with the situation to last man more days yet, you might want to consider this possibility, if can be arranged with QF or BA.

Good luck!
 
As the cause of the disruption is a matter outside of the control of the airline - a natural disaster - then the airline is not responsible for compensation. They will honour your ticket, but out-of-pocket expenses are not their resonsibility.

Actually, the EU regulations *bind* a carrier to provide care to a passenger stranded. So BA is on the hook for accom etc. This is different to compensation payments for delayed flights etc where a fixed sum is normally paid.

I'm not going to go into the rights and wrongs of the legislation...
 
...

As the cause of the disruption is a matter outside of the control of the airline - a natural disaster - then the airline is not responsible for compensation. They will honour your ticket, but out-of-pocket expenses are not their resonsibility.
...
That is somewhat incorrect; BA being an EU carrier, regulation 260/2004 applies.

Now it is not good enough for the matter to be "completely outside the control of the airline", there is an exclusion for compensation: "extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken". Mere bad weather or mechanical failure, even if outside the control of the airline generally do not preclude compensation for canceled or delayed flights under the regulation.

However, it seems with this volcanic dust that airlines are taking the view that this exception applies. If so, then there is no compensation payable under the regulation in relation to cancelled/delayed flights, but the right to care provisions still apply.

What this means is that BA has to cover out of pocket expenses relating to "duty of care" ,such as food and accommodation, they cannot avoid that. See this post here:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...srupts-all-flights-uk-22692-2.html#post317034
...
Under this regulation, there is no clause in relation to "extraordinary circumstances" ... that allow airlines to avoid their duty of care obligations. They must feed and also accommodate passengers "where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary".
Here is the regulation, see articles 6 (Delay) and 9 (right to care):
 
Now, in relation for BA funding "duty of care" expenses such as food and accommodation, they cannot avoid that. See this post here:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...srupts-all-flights-uk-22692-2.html#post317034http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/your-questions/... IMG][/QUOTE]

Serfty, in my answer I was referring solely to the question originally asked re [B]compensation: [/B] for time lost, I presumed that this is what Jeff was originally asking- duty of care regarding accommodation and food was a 'given' requirement of the airline: sorry if I presumed too much to take it for granted.
 
I suppose my main queery is relating to accom costs etc.

Fingers crossed i get my flight on Tues and all is good.

My hotel is only $40 a nite so the CC insurance cover will do me fo a few days.

Will give the BA call centre a call on Monay and see what they say.
 
Where are you travelling to from BKK?

As far as the EU regulations go in covering this , it would seem to be dependant upon where you are going from BKK

The regulations seem to cover
Leaving from EU on any airline and
Travelling to EU on a member airline

It doesnt seem to cover travel on a member airline when the entire journey is outside of the EU

If booked to travel from BKK-LHR , then the EU regs would appl but if booked to travel BKK-SYD , they would seem not to

Dave
 
If booked to travel from BKK-LHR , then the EU regs would appl but if booked to travel BKK-SYD , they would seem not to

BA is an EU carrier, so AFAIK, they are bound by the rules regardless of what flight it is.
 
I suppose my main queery is relating to accom costs etc.

Jeffrey, BA are required to cover your accom etc costs while you are stuck in Bangkok, as a number of other postings have advised here. Take it up with them on Mondday, by all means.
 
...
The regulations seem to cover
Leaving from EU on any airline and
Travelling to EU on a member airline
Originally the regulations applied to the services of:

  • Any Carrier departing from an EU port, and
  • those of an EU member airline.
where bookings are taken, whether the flight is normally scheduled or not.

It seems there has been some changes since their inception as the regulation now reads:
Article 3: Scope​
1. This Regulation shall apply:

(a) to passengers departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies;
(b) to passengers departing from an airport located in a third country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies, unless they received benefits or compensation and were given assistance in that third country, if the operating air carrier of the flight concerned is a Community carrier.
 
Jeffrey, BA are required to cover your accom etc costs while you are stuck in Bangkok, as a number of other postings have advised here. Take it up with them on Mondday, by all means.

As I mentoned ( and subsequently posted by serfty ) , the regulations will cover *if* travelling to the EU or from the EU. If stuck in Asia trying to travel to Australia, then the regulations would not apply . If the passenger is awaiting to travel BKK-SYD I would look at booking another flight on another airline. Getting from Thailand to Australia should be quite feasible on TG tonight
 
I dont think I'll be payng for a 1 way tickets just yet.

I would hope that by tues QF / BA would at least start getting people back home since there's no safety issues with the flights between BKK and SYD

between the red shirts taking over a lot of the better shopping area and now the volcanoe holiday extension......
 
I dont think I'll be payng for a 1 way tickets just yet.

I would hope that by tues QF / BA would at least start getting people back home since there's no safety issues with the flights between BKK and SYD

between the red shirts taking over a lot of the better shopping area and now the volcanoe holiday extension......

Given that you have travel insurance , it would seem the most sensible approach given that insurance should cover the additional cost of the flight ; you may also be able to get a partial refund from BA for the flight not taken due to the cancellation of services. MH has a fare today to Sydney for $533 and you can be in Sydney for 8am tomorrow

Given that you are travelling to SYD, BA is not responsible under EU regulations for hotels, meals etc.

If you wait for BA to restart services, even when they do, the flights are likely to be packed and you may not even get out on the 1st day of operation
 
I'm sure i'll probably open up a can of worms with throwing my opinion into the mix, but personally, i don't see why the airline should be paying compensation to passengers or hotel/food reimbursement...its not like they're not flying due to mechanical issues, it's not the airlines fault they can't fly, its a natural disaster.

I feel sorry for those stuck in the mix of it, but that's life, travel by its very nature is full of speed bumps.

TG
 
I'm sure i'll probably open up a can of worms with throwing my opinion into the mix, but personally, i don't see why the airline should be paying compensation to passengers or hotel/food reimbursement...its not like they're not flying due to mechanical issues, it's not the airlines fault they can't fly, its a natural disaster.

How about because for travel to or from the EU or within the EU, there is a legal requirement to do so
 
TG

to a degree i agree with u. am just looking at my options if the delay goes on for much longer, and in some ways if it does then I think BA & QF are doing poorly by there pasengers as there's nothing stopping them having a plane ferrying passengers between points in Asia and Australia - yeah they may not make much money with no thru services but sometimes service has to have an equal footing as the profit motive.

hopefully i'm out of here tues and the issue wont be that important as the CC trav insurance will be plenty to cover my expenses.
 
...
hopefully i'm out of here tues and the issue wont be that important as the CC trav insurance will be plenty to cover my expenses.
Note that if EU obligations do indeed apply to an airline in such cases and a passenger claims only through their applicable travel insurance, the passenger's insurance underwriter(s) will not hesitate to consider obtaining reimbursement from the airline.
 
How about because for travel to or from the EU or within the EU, there is a legal requirement to do so

The fact that people can claim from an airline because the law says they can does not mean it is right that they can and that was the point Travel Guru was making. If the airlines has any chance of fixing the problem themselves I would say they should look after their customers and pay compensation.
I think airlines should help people out with free re-routing were possible but that is as far as it should go.
 
The fact that people can claim from an airline because the law says they can does not mean it is right that they can and that was the point Travel Guru was making. ...
Whether it's right (or fair) is irrelevant as the Airlines themselves have been generally perceived to have brought such regulation upon themselves.

The main problems relate to deliberate overbooking or planned cancellation of scheduled flights which can cause passengers being refused boarding or downgrading. The regulation is designed to be punitive in these cases. Note the exclusion clauses in relation to cancellation or delay for "extraordinary circumstances", these punitive clauses do not apply in these cases. None of which preclude a passengers "right to care" which in any case, already exists in the regulation outside the scope of EU 261/2004, both in the EU and many other countries.

EUR-Lex - 32004R0261 - EN

Whereas:

(1) Action by the Community in the field of air transport should aim, among other things, at ensuring a high level of protection for passengers. Moreover, full account should be taken of the requirements of consumer protection in general.

(2) Denied boarding and cancellation or long delay of flights cause serious trouble and inconvenience to passengers.

(3) While Council Regulation (EEC) No 295/91 of 4 February 1991 establishing common rules for a denied boarding compensation system in scheduled air transport(4) created basic protection for passengers, the number of passengers denied boarding against their will remains too high, as does that affected by cancellations without prior warning and that affected by long delays.

(4) The Community should therefore raise the standards of protection set by that Regulation both to strengthen the rights of passengers and to ensure that air carriers operate under harmonised conditions in a liberalised market.

(5) Since the distinction between scheduled and non-scheduled air services is weakening, such protection should apply to passengers not only on scheduled but also on non-scheduled flights, including those forming part of package tours.

(6) The protection accorded to passengers departing from an airport located in a Member State should be extended to those leaving an airport located in a third country for one situated in a Member State, when a Community carrier operates the flight.

(7) In order to ensure the effective application of this Regulation, the obligations that it creates should rest with the operating air carrier who performs or intends to perform a flight, whether with owned aircraft, under dry or wet lease, or on any other basis.

(8) This Regulation should not restrict the rights of the operating air carrier to seek compensation from any person, including third parties, in accordance with the law applicable.

(9) The number of passengers denied boarding against their will should be reduced by requiring air carriers to call for volunteers to surrender their reservations, in exchange for benefits, instead of denying passengers boarding, and by fully compensating those finally denied boarding.

(10) Passengers denied boarding against their will should be able either to cancel their flights, with reimbursement of their tickets, or to continue them under satisfactory conditions, and should be adequately cared for while awaiting a later flight.

(11) Volunteers should also be able to cancel their flights, with reimbursement of their tickets, or continue them under satisfactory conditions, since they face difficulties of travel similar to those experienced by passengers denied boarding against their will.

(12) The trouble and inconvenience to passengers caused by cancellation of flights should also be reduced. This should be achieved by inducing carriers to inform passengers of cancellations before the scheduled time of departure and in addition to offer them reasonable re-routing, so that the passengers can make other arrangements. Air carriers should compensate passengers if they fail to do this, except when the cancellation occurs in extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

(13) Passengers whose flights are cancelled should be able either to obtain reimbursement of their tickets or to obtain re-routing under satisfactory conditions, and should be adequately cared for while awaiting a later flight.

(14) As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier.

(15) Extraordinary circumstances should be deemed to exist where the impact of an air traffic management decision in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft, even though all reasonable measures had been taken by the air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations.

(16) In cases where a package tour is cancelled for reasons other than the flight being cancelled, this Regulation should not apply.

(17) Passengers whose flights are delayed for a specified time should be adequately cared for and should be able to cancel their flights with reimbursement of their tickets or to continue them under satisfactory conditions.

(18) Care for passengers awaiting an alternative or a delayed flight may be limited or declined if the provision of the care would itself cause further delay.

(19) Operating air carriers should meet the special needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them.

(20) Passengers should be fully informed of their rights in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, so that they can effectively exercise their rights.
 
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