Choice says airline policies "break" consumer law

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openseat

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Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

I've always been mystified why airlines have skirted around consumer laws.


[FONT=&amp]Choice claims that while businesses from other industries are banned from making blanket “no refund” claims, airlines have been getting away with the practise for years.
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[FONT=&amp]“Under the Australian Consumer Law, you have a right to a refund no matter how many times an airline lands you with a no refund message as you make your way through an online checkout,” said Choice director of Campaigns, Communications and Content Matt Levey[/FONT]

Nocookies | The Australian
 
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Re: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

It doesn't seem fair, but perhaps they argue that a flight can't be 'different than described' or 'not fit for purpose' and therefore not meet the standard consumer law refund requirements? It would meet that criteria when airlines reschedule or cancel but they usually give you the option of a refund at that point.

I definitely agree that Australia should follow the Eu and mandate compulsory compensation for delays and cancellations within the airlines control.
 
Re: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

This rip off needs to end.

Choice alleges one consumer, Daniel Kruk, was charged $861.72 when he decided to cancel two Qantas tickets to New York, following three separate changes to his flight time that were instigated by the airline.

"I was dismayed...when the basis of my cancellation was because Qantas had altered my flight dates three times and offered me the option to accept or decline," he told Choice.
The ACCC advises that cancellation fees reflect the costs to the business, with fair deposits generally 10 per cent of the total cost.

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Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar and Tigerair slammed in Choice investigation
 
Re: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

Someone commented that if the airlines have such a large refund fee, then the opposite should hold true as well when the airline fails to provide the service (no matter what the reason).
 
ORe: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

I'd like to know by how much time Daniel Neil's flight times were changed ??

The contact reading time versus timeout is a fair point -- although it's only a few clauses that are important
 
Re: ORe: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

It strikes me that it's relatively easy to avoid paying a cancellation fee - just buy the flexi fare.

I assume Choice will be going after concert and theatre promoters next, whose "ticketing code of conduct" includes their right to refuse change-of-mind refunds.
 
Re: ORe: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

It strikes me that it's relatively easy to avoid paying a cancellation fee - just buy the flexi fare.
I assume Choice will be going after concert and theatre promoters next, whose "ticketing code of conduct" includes their right to refuse change-of-mind refunds.

But do theatre / music stickets have restrictions on name changes? Looking on eBay you wouldn't think so.

Independently of the price you paid for tickets, should refunds for flight cancellation be required to refund the higher of what you paid or what tickets in the same cabin cost just prior to the cancellation?

Happy wandering

Fred
 
I wish them a lot of luck. I think the ACCC would have acted by now if they could have.

For some reason, airlines seem to get away with rules that are different to all other sellers of consumer goods.
 
Re: ORe: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

I see parallels with hotel rooms. If you have a flexible rate you can change or cancel the booking; if not - tough. In this situation is it not a case of you get what you pay for?
 
Re: ORe: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

It strikes me that it's relatively easy to avoid paying a cancellation fee - just buy the flexi fare.

Flexi fares still have a cancellation fee (at least Qantas domestic flexi). You can get a credit, but cancellation will still cost you.
 
Re: ORe: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

I see parallels with hotel rooms. If you have a flexible rate you can change or cancel the booking; if not - tough. In this situation is it not a case of you get what you pay for?

I am assuming that if the hotel suddenly decided to move your Thursday night stay to Friday night they would let you cancel free of charge, because they overbooked or had electrical fault or whatever other reason

My read on this is that passengers are often not delivered the product they thought they were buying and thus feel like they should have the ability to cancel free of charge.

Where the arguments get interesting relates to the question as to definition of the product - as it relates to time or class of travel. If a couple of months out your MEL-BNE flight is cancelled and you are reaccomodated on a flight by 2.5hrs later - is that the product you bought? If not 1 should you be able to cancel free if charge even if on non cancellable fare?
 
Re: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

I can't see this intervention resulting in cheaper air fares (for the masses or otherwise)
 
Re: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

I think another interesting point that was raised in an article I read was that the contract you're supposed to agree to when purchasing the ticket is impossible to read before the page times out.
 
Re: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

It's the words "non-refundable" that are the problem, because EVERY flight can be refundable, if, for example, the airline cancels the service. It's like the shops that have "no refund" signs up - of course, if the goods are "not fit for purpose", then you get a refund.

The airlines may just have to reword this - "non-refundable if the passenger changes their mind" or similar.
 
Re: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

It's the words "non-refundable" that are the problem, because EVERY flight can be refundable, if, for example, the airline cancels the service. It's like the shops that have "no refund" signs up - of course, if the goods are "not fit for purpose", then you get a refund.

The airlines may just have to reword this - "non-refundable if the passenger changes their mind" or similar.

I guess airlines or the ACCC may have to define what is a "fit for purpose" flight purchase. For example, for a flight to be judged as fit for purpose, you must:
  • Arrive at the destination stated on your ticket you initially purchased
  • Arrive within a certain time as stated on your ticket you initially purchased or consented to exchange (e.g. flight time change)
  • Travel in the class of service you have paid for (and been offered the opportunity to enjoy all the services in that class, e.g. a meal, a seat)
  • Been offered the opportunity to enjoy all the services you specifically paid for (e.g. extra baggage allowance)

If any of those are broken, the product is deemed not fit for purpose and you get a refund. Then we would also need to have arguments about whether a full or partial refund is due in some cases of "not fit for purpose"; for example, you managed to successfully fly from BNE to MEL on time, but on board you did not receive a meal that was advertised by the airline.

There would also need to be definitions as to what constitutes a failure of fit for purpose on the part of the company or the customer. For example, if a flight is delayed due to weather, you may not make it to your destination on time. Are you entitled to a refund due to not being fit for purpose?

Finally, there is the issue that if a customer is due a refund, is it right to "penalise" them? Even if it is a change of mind refund? I remember that a handful of electronics stores charge a restocking fee (e.g. 15%) if a customer returned an item completely on a change of mind basis. Let's not also forget that the banks have recently been in the boiling pot for charging fees that were judged as being excessive of the costs they incurred, even though one can argue that a good customer could have veritably avoided these fees easily and under normal use of the product were under no compunction at all to incur that fee.

This is much easier for most other consumer products and services. For example, if you buy a phone, if it malfunctions in any way (as long as you didn't deliberately cause the fault), you can get it refunded, replaced or repaired. If you order to have your carpets cleaned, if you check and the carpets are still quite dirty without being advised by the cleaner, or your cleaner completely destroys your carpet, you can seek compensation of a minimum of not paying for the services you ordered.

I'm not confident that if the ACCC gets their way then fares will necessarily go up, or go up high. It'll come down to which of the two airlines will blink first and bump up prices, but if they do, won't the other one simply not do it and thus garner the majority of the market?

Also, I don't think Choice has ever complained about the prices of air fares themselves. They only complain about the fees and charges which surround the headline fares (e.g. credit card fees, cancellation or change fees, hidden insurances, award ticketing fees...). Choice is not going to get onto a soapbox and start throwing red paint around if, for some odd economic combination of reasons or institution of whatever consumer friendly regulation, the headline price of a Y fare on the MEL/SYD monorail rose to $300.
 
Re: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

Airlines have had it all their way for way too long. Time something was done especially on downgrades in service.

I am assuming that if the hotel suddenly decided to move your Thursday night stay to Friday night they would let you cancel free of charge, because they overbooked or had electrical fault or whatever other reason
I had a complimentary room booked at the Star Casino in Sydney for this Friday night. They called last week to tell me my room was one of the ones affected by the construction. They offered another night free of charge and returned my complimentary night for use again essentially giving me extra complimentary night. Also upgraded to executive suite for the new night I chose.
 
Re: Choice targets airlines over failure to provide full refunds

I had a complimentary room booked at the Star Casino in Sydney for this Friday night. They called last week to tell me my room was one of the ones affected by the construction. They offered another night free of charge and returned my complimentary night for use again essentially giving me extra complimentary night. Also upgraded to executive suite for the new night I chose.
Johnny I hope you said NO I just cannot be jerked around like this!
 
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